Off Topic Productions

I can be a bit obsessed with making sure that I get everything. This includes money, augs, xp, misc items etc. Because of certain time limits in the game, and my wanting to get as much done as I can before proceeding with the story line I like to upgrade my skills in a very unbalanced sort of way. I am compelled to upgrade my lock picking and electronics to trained, and my computer to master before upgrading anything else.

Needless to say this leaves me at a significant combat disadvantage.

That is until I rediscovered the nano sword

Murdering low level enemies has never been so good. An untrained unaided melee approach is probably difficult in later levels but for now it is the best 1500 creds I've spent.
Apart from killer (my nano swords pet name from now on) I like to have pistols and grenades. (the grenades I will eventually up to trained for disarming and scramble grenade effectiveness, but that's it)

trestkon's pistols for assaulting, alpha's for sniping blow dart for non lethal (and a prod as well) and the special gun that will remain unnamed for dealing with bots.
I may eventually pick up a flamethrower for the end game for those pesky things. (you know what I'm talking about)

What kind of building scheme do you guys go for?

p.s. It kind of occurred to me that one thing you could have done is given Trestkon a big bonus to his skills representing his veteran status like 5000or so, though I realise that the game was balanced for vanilla numbers, I feel it just would have made sense. Though I realize that this is me just feeling selfish. I wouldn't say no to a mod or something though if anyone knows of one, or a way to get extra xp illegitimately... I wouldn't abuse it I swear.

p.p.s There could be a fifth difficulty meter that represents the degree to which Trestkon has gotten rusty (how much extra xp he gets at the beginning) with totally forgotten himself at the bottom with say 5 extra xp, and 1500, 3000, and 4500 as the other levels calling the different levels different things like kept in shape, and practiced every day. I feel this is reasonable because JC was supposed to be green apart from training, and Trestkon was supposed to be a veteran. I know you aren't adding any features but it would be an interesting mod to see made. (Mod of a mod)

Since I'm hopeless with stealth in TNM, and the weapons are a hoot to use, I go for the aggressive/defensive kinda build. I try to get masters in Computer and Pistols. Environment for the various armors, Heavy Weapons (just for that rocket launcher), Lockpicking, and Electronics I try to get to advanced. I always have the Speed, Targeting, Regen, and Combat Strength augs. Regen and Speed I max out.

You pretty much get my whole mid-game build if you just type "equipme" into the console with cheats enabled

It's very rifle-centric.

A lot of questions depends on "favored" setup versus what you can actually be moderately successful with in the game. This is one of my well-known criticisms of most mods, including TNM, that they force you into certain things if you want to win. This is what I always liked about DX, that it was tested pretty well so you didn't have to be forced into playing it a certain way.

That said, those that have followed me know that I tend to try and learn the weapons and items enough to be able to play any way I want at will. I tend to like the DTS as well, and have played a significant majority of several DX & mod games using nothing but it and a few other items, demolishing about everything in my path, too. I've been favoring light "secret agent" setups lately, too (think stuff one could actually carry on their person reasonably).

ggrotz wrote:This is one of my well-known criticisms of most mods, including TNM, that they force you into certain things if you want to win.

Define "win".

That said, those that have followed me know that I tend to try and learn the weapons and items enough to be able to play any way I want at will.

You're contradicting yourself a bit there. If it's possible to play however you want when you just take the time to learn how to use the different weapons and tools at your disposal, then you're hardly being "forced" to do anything, are you?

I generally (in DX and TNM) avoid the weapon skills, just upgrading my favorited weapon with mods (usually just the plain pistol. Others require actual skill input). So my "builds" are generally favoring as everyone electronics/multitool (although I really don't need more than lvl 2 in TNM so often I played it)/computers.

Aren't really many wall-mounted explosives in TNM, and the few that are I rather detonate (LAM in Aunt Betty's) since they are at sticky spots even with a lot of skill to add time. And molotovs? Not really using them to be honest. So my weakest skill, though for the cost/profit I generally update it in DX. Can't say I care much for unarmed or (as DX) environmental...
So yeah, everyone can do what they want. That's good...

Another reason to get a big bonus of xp at the beginning would be to catch up to DX. TNM has about 25000-26000 xp, whereas DX has 33000 xp. an extra 5000 xp would really make up for both the gap and for the fact that you start off low level in a mid level environment.

I like the way everyone has a prefered play style, I think that it speaks well of DX and TNM that this is possible

Well I take your point, but remember that TNM is balanced for (and by) people who've already completed Deus Ex. You're supposed to start playing TNM when you're already intimately familiar with the mechanics from the original game, and it adds just few enough new mechanics that you can reuse most of the knowledge you have from the original game. It's hard because by the time you get to TNM, you're presumably awesome

Also... resources are just tighter in TNM in general, because that's the way we like it. It's cool to have to scavenge a bit for ammo, or to be forced to make hard decisions about where to apply your lockpicks. Skill points are the same: when you only have enough to max out something like two skills, the choice of what to focus on becomes more important. The only place where we fucked up was with aug upgrades, which I somehow ended up placing waaaay too many of, but that'll be fixed in 1.0.5

Jonas wrote: Define "win".

Complete the game in one piece.

Jonas wrote:You're contradicting yourself a bit there. If it's possible to play however you want when you just take the time to learn how to use the different weapons and tools at your disposal, then you're hardly being "forced" to do anything, are you?

We've been through this before, actually. Being "forced" to do something involves having to use specific tools/weapons to get through in one piece. Case in point from last time: Those hoverbots.

ggrotz wrote:Complete the game in one piece.

Well then you're wrong

Case in point from last time: Those hoverbots.

Let's see... dealing with the hoverbots:

• EMP grenades
• EMP rockets
• EM pistol
• GEP rockets
• LAMs
• LAWs
• 20mm grenades
• Sabot ammo
• Sneak past them with Radar Transparency
• Run past them with Speed Enhancement

...that's what I got off the top of my head. And note that the hoverbots almost exclusively appear in the Old Server Complex, which was specifically designed to not be structured like Deus Ex (but rather be a linear romp through a System Shock inspired obstacle course).

... and you can use standard weapons on them. I find that they go down with a few 10mm Pistol rounds. I tend to just stock up on that and save the EMP pistol for stickier situations.
I really enjoyed the Old Server Complex map; I enjoyed it even more before it was nerfed because it felt even more dangerous...
Don't get me wrong, I know why you nerfed it, because it was unbalenced etc. but it was still awesome.
I don't suppose any changes to that map in 1.0.5 out of curiousity?

When I play TNM, I am such a hoarder. I want to carry as much crap with me as possible, all the time. That's why it annoys me when you go to DXI and you leave stuff behind, either before you go because you anticipate that you need to carry the firestaff, or once you get there to make room for the firestaff. But then, it makes sense for you to make room once you're there anyway; plus, as you've said before when I've mentioned it, part of Deus Ex's gameplay balencing involves you making judgement on whether or not to keep stuff for later on or not.

I want to play TNM again but I also want to wait until 1.0.5 comes out. So many decisions...

1.0.5 comes out when HDTP is out. I would tell you to go pester them, but I think they've just about had it with pestering

I don't think I've made any changes to the OSC for 1.0.5. The problem wasn't just balance, but rather that it was possible to get irrevocably stuck in a couple of the puzzles (because you just didn't have enough health resources to make it through).

Jonas wrote:1.0.5 comes out when HDTP is out. I would tell you to go pester them, but I think they've just about had it with pestering

I don't think I've made any changes to the OSC for 1.0.5. The problem wasn't just balance, but rather that it was possible to get irrevocably stuck in a couple of the puzzles (because you just didn't have enough health resources to make it through).

That's okay. I'm a patient man.

As for the OSC; that's cool. That's probably a better solution to the problem than simply, sticking a Medbot after every puzzle or something.
I maaaayyy just have to get the original map for nostalgia reasons though.

nerdenstein wrote:That's probably a better solution to the problem than simply, sticking a Medbot after every puzzle or something.

I did actually consider doing that.

Few medpacks?

Might actually make "medicine" a good skill to have instead of a waste.
Also I supposed the firetrap could do with a "break window in case of emergency" fire extinguisher.

Then again I never played 1.0.0 OSC. I really REALLY should though 0_0.