TNM Poster Art Project

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bobby 55
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by bobby 55 »

In responce to CTC and the Voodoo shop.What about the portal door and a voodoo doll at the foot of it.When i see a doll with pins sticking out of it i always think of voodoo.Just don't ask me where to put it though.
Edit:maybe some light shining through a slightly ajar door or through the jamb.Green might not be a colour Tek wants to use though.
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teknikal
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by teknikal »

Well I think we've covered ALL bases now. Time to eliminate the good from the bad.

I do like the idea of a bunch of subtle little things you REALLY have to look for to see. This is going to be a full-sized poster after all, so I better make the most of the high resolution. But I'm not going to prioritize that right now; there's heaps of time to work out the niggly little details.

For now it's what you see at first glance that's important.
Jonas wrote:...the goat and llama logos ... definitely wouldn't help the clutter.
Yeah the general consensus I'm getting from everyone is: don't bother with the llamas and goats. So if they are gonna be on the poster -definately not going to be in the spotlight.
Jonas wrote:The firestaff... I would suggest that DD would be holding it...
I'll give it a go and we can see what we think about how that looks after that. (Although I'll miss-out on using the awesome dramatic red lighting that DD's weapon emits if the firestaff replaces it :()
Jonas wrote:...Adding the hovercar to the poster, perhaps exploding out of a building to the left of Scara, would totally work IMO. It should at least be attempted.
I'm seeing it in my mind right now and I'm thinking: that is SO gonna be ATTEMPTED XD. It is one of the coolest moments in the whole game. And it reminds me of Blade Runner posters which is cool too!
spyhopping wrote:I second the idea for a black helicopter, perhaps for more of a nod toward DX than anything else..
Everyone likes the DX choppers. So I'll definately work one in there! (and they were sorely missed in Invisible War; so they deserve a comeback on here)
chris the cynic wrote:I'm continuing to think about what you might want to include, and I think we've covered most everything. DXI is important, but the firestaff could represent that. In fact, other than ghosty Gwog, it is the only thing I can think of that really represents DXI. Do you want to have something to represent DXO? For some reason ShadowCode keeps on popping into my head (and I only just realized how that sounds considering his role in the game) but I don't really think there's much call to include him. I kind of feel like the voodoo shop is iconic, but I can't fathom how you could put that on a poster.

So my brainstorming hasn't produced much. I did try though.
After reading this I'm now sure we don't need to show anything but the firestaff. Some of the stuff like ShadowCode and DXO is best left as an in-game suprise. And the voodoo shop -iconic as it is- isn't that important that it needs to be on the poster. Perhaps I really should've asked everyone: what's ICONIC and IMPORTANT? woops... :P
chris the cynic wrote: Imagine that the Goat Templae(TM) were a little more straight and colored to blend in with the rest of the picture. It should seem to be somewhere between the foreground of the characters and the background of the city skyline, with the impression that it's part of the skyline that just happens to be closer to the viewer ... or something. Opposite it, at the same hight, would be the Llama Temple (or rather, the left half of the Llama Temple) colored to not stand out from that side. Looking at it I think the most likely reason for this idea to fail is the coloration of where the Llama Temple would go.
I REALLY like this idea... (your edit is fine chris... i completely understand what you're going for here! :)) I'm really keen on trying this out, 'cause I don't want the background to be too bland or flat. Hmmm I think you've worked out how we could include a reference to the goats/llamas after all. :mrgreen: Thanks chris! *hands you a cookie*
spyhopping wrote:The problem is that I never finish anything to show. I need to improve with making images look polished, as most of my pics hang around as rough starts, and then I get a bit of a block. I think I'm going to bite the bullet and start posting things that are rough, whilst I'm still experimenting!
Good to hear your art endeavours are going good.^_^
Rough and unfinished? I'm the queen of rough and unfinished! Don't be afraid to show roughs and sketches. 90% of my art online is rough and unfinished. Better than showing nothing. ;)

*looks at Steambots speedpaints* O_O Man I need to draw better and faster. I'll have to start speedpainting exercises soon.
And no I haven't got the Exodessey artbook yet. I'm hoping to get it as one of my 21st b-day presents this year though!


Fecking hell that was a mega post...
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by chris the cynic »

teknikal wrote:
Jonas wrote:The firestaff... I would suggest that DD would be holding it...
I'll give it a go and we can see what we think about how that looks after that. (Although I'll miss-out on using the awesome dramatic red lighting that DD's weapon emits if the firestaff replaces it :()
How does one choose between two mutually exclusive bits of awesome?

Somehow I think we all trust you to do it.

Or you could take the choiceless way out: have DD hold the firestaff in one hand and the fireblade in the other.

Whatever the outcome, I'm really looking forward to seeing this.
Perhaps I really should've asked everyone: what's ICONIC and IMPORTANT? woops... :P
I basically came to the same conclusion, but if I kept my mouth shut and then afterwards you said, "Damn, I wish I had thought of DXO," well then I'd have to kick myself in the head. Do you know how hard that is to do? Plus, ShadowCode was in my BRAIN.

And now, for the true purpose of this post:
I REALLY like this idea... (your edit is fine chris... i completely understand what you're going for here! :)) I'm really keen on trying this out, 'cause I don't want the background to be too bland or flat. Hmmm I think you've worked out how we could include a reference to the goats/llamas after all. :mrgreen: Thanks chris! *hands you a cookie*
I got a cookie! Yay.
And no I haven't got the Exodessey artbook yet. I'm hoping to get it as one of my 21st b-day presents this year though!
You're twenty? To paraphrase (butcher) Tom Lehrer: it's people like you who make people like me realize how little we’ve accomplished in life. Keep it up though.
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OiNutter
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by OiNutter »

Christiphicus! Good god, man, check your messages! You are making it dreadfully hard to stalk you.
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by heliosentity101 »

I was thinking , for a good drawing of shadowcode , why not have trestkon standing in the foreground , with a purple-ish glow in his eyes instead of white , and shadowcodes face looming behind him ? giving the image an evil feel to it or something ?

Just a suggestion though :D
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ZeroPresence
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by ZeroPresence »

hot damn, you're such an awesome artist. :shock:

draw ZeroPresence! XD
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by Mr_Cyberpunk »

Hey Tenikal, I noticed you were working on this via DeviantART. I think its looking alright but I feel that the Characters don't really take up enough of the image. I'll give you an example of what I feel the poster needs.

Image

something like this where the characters take up 80% of the actual image, the negative space is then for your other details such as the city scape, helicopters and the space station.

Further more something I need to warn you about too is that the way you've got them positioned actually leads the viewers eyes outside of the poster, which in design terms is a problem that a lot of poster artists make mistakes with. If you look at the blade runner picture you'll see all of the characters are looking Within the frame, towards other characters, Deckards gun is pointing in a way that leads onto the other characters in the frame, the rain pulls our eyes upwards as well, Deckard is looking upwards towards the title and his jacket pulls us towards his face.. This is good composition because we can look up and down without ever leaving the frame. The negative space should be where you put all of the minor details that are just there for aesthetic, the characters should be there to draw the person into the film/game.

The thing with poster design is you've got to be 100% focused on where the eye is moving on the page- because with movie cinemas if you direct the eyes outside of the frame, the viewer will look at the poster next to it.. Which is bad :D so you've got to pull the viewer back into the frame.

Can't wait to see the final though, you're a brilliant character artist. You need to be mindful of these things though with your composition. I should note that its unlikely you will have to redraw anything, it just needs some resizing and repositioning so everything faces in the direction you want the viewers eyes to focus on.

The other Blade Runner poster by Alvin is this one which I know everyone is familiar with.
Image

Though I have some issues with this one such as how it divides the page into 3. However the use of Lines, the buildings and the car to draw the viewers eyes to the other details is really great and I feel is where the composition works its best.. but its not the best poster I've ever seen of his.

there's even the comic book versions too.

Image
This one is way way way too complex and its composition is all over the place.. its color is terrible- there's too many characters as well which looks too busy and rushed. The characters are also looking in the wrong directions- they look outside of the frame. Even worse they've covered the title up with graphics.. :( that's a huge no no because the typography alone is perfected, to destroy or distort that is tragic and won't do the poster justice- so also keep that in mind.

I'm also wondering why the hell there's cars coming out of people's arm pits and why there's an iris in the middle of the picture LOL. It makes no sense and doesn't even look good.

Image
This one however is almost perfect. There's so much depth there and the lines pull your eyes towards the title and the character, whilst the eyes on the character pulls you back into the frame. The color is iconic Cyberpunk/Mobius coloring with bright fluro/neon colors vs the dark blue and brown backgrounds. Excelent color selection IMO, but the first poster I showed has the best due to the Hot vs Cold colors- you can't get any better than that.

Characters facing forward can work too but its usually more productive to make them focus on a point of interest that you'd like the viewer to pay extra close attention to.
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by JizzyJeff »

I want to steal your brain.
My name is not Jeff.
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by Mr_Cyberpunk »

Ok some more examples :D

Image

I just want to establish that Escape from New York has a MASSIVE impact on Deus Ex, William Gibson once even said that the film was his Inspiration for Neuromancer, this cover should give you the idea of how the place the helicopters in a way that looks AWESOME and full of action. The beams of light are used to pull our eyes back down to the character and his gun to the statue of liberties head.. Its composition however fails in areas because there are parts that point outside of the frame, such as the the characters and the silhouette on the left.... which is a bad thing.

Image

this one however was the one that was most commonly used in the western world. The tilted graphics are brilliantly done, the viewer is confused by it because it goes against the normal "poster" format. Observe also that the Lines and characters face the center, the statue of liberty is actually looking UP at the text but the buildings move our eyes back down and stop them from leaving the page. It's also a perfect example of Cyberpunk done insanely perfect- and is a huge cause to Deus Ex's style and aesthetic.

Image

Another example of the same thing, has the same sort of Hot vs Cold thing that the blade runner one had. Snake looking at the camera works, his gun and the statue of liberty are directing our eyes upwards. The text moves us up towards the right, and the buildings pull us back down again- creating a border to stop the eyes from leaving.

Image

as you can see, the style is very similar, and the composition with the buildings used to block off the borders.. Unfortunately the beam of light towards the right isn't really all that necessary (see the Escape from New York one to see why).. but the other beams are at least facing the right direction.. The colour choices however IMO are boring- given how colorful the actual game is- at least the blade runner poster reflected that and still managed to keep to the style and aesthetic of the film- remember don't be affraid to add colour. I know its become normal with video games to just use a generic brown/blue/green filter over things.. but I think its way better to just go all out with colours. it'll be more attractive in the end.

you've got to be really careful of where everything is facing.

Another AMAZING coincidence to Deus Ex as well is the VERY first Cyberpunk film ever made Metropolis' composition is actually identical to Deus Ex's
Image

freaking awesome, this however is a much more perfect example as to how to move the eyes into the frame rather than out of the frame. As you can see the lines facing towards the middle work almost like a vacuum- the buildings do their job as the border breaks again, and the middle buildings is used to move the eyes down- the Golden Cyborg version of Maria- facing upward to direct the eyes back up to the typography at the top.. I can't begin to tell you how awesome the typography is :D. Its a poster artists dream.. This is one of my most favorite posters of all time.

ImageImage

the smaller version looks IDENTICAL to Deus Ex's cover in terms of composition :D

Image

This one is great, not much of a movie poster though, more art :D. I just posted this to give you some ideas on how to bring more depth out of the buildings.
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by Mr_Cyberpunk »

just found out something interesting, that first Blade Runner poster I showed by Drew Struzan, he actually struggled a LOT with the composition, here's an example of 2 that didn't make it:

Image

The final Minus the text can be seen here:

Image

You can clearly see the car has been put in this version to draw the eyes to the point of origin of the rain effect- which pulls our eyes back down.. previously all this was to do is point towards the text, but minus the text something has to be in its place else the composition fails.. The human mind will naturally see a hierarchy with text- where by what ever is under or above the text should be viewed first and then the text itself- this is intentional and what really makes a good poster work because you've got to ultimately make it stand out- this is why posters loaded with too much information tend to fail because they're not focused on aesthetics and composition rather just getting information across. The point is to keep the viewers eyes inside of the frame, and that means AVOID putting any text that reads left to right near the borders of your image- with a title we don't usually read it till we're done with the image so that's fine.. but avoid putting a giant text blob to the side- because that will distract the viewer and yeah their eyes will move left to right trying to read it. This works fine for brochures and everything but on a poster for a film its not going to work due to the competitive nature of the product.
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by teknikal »

Thanks for the awesome lesson Mr Cyberpunk! *saves this page* I was actually going to "squash" the composition down on my next study of it 'cause I'm still not 100% happy with it either. I'm treating this poster as one of the biggest learning experience I've had, so I'm taking it slowly and carefully and I appreciate all the help from everyone so very very much!

Anyways... to everyone else. I am not dead. I've just been terribly busy the last couple of weeks. I lost my whole last weekend to my volunteer work at Freeplay -Melbourne's indie games festival. Was good fun, but damn did it leave me muddled in trying to catch up with with all my university assignments!

Speaking of Freeplay (http://www.freeplay.net.au/). The event's getting bigger and bigger every year, and I think I'm going to help out with it every year from now on. So if anyone's keen on turning up to next year's event let me know. :)
Interesting and awesome fact: Harvey Smith was keynote speaker at the very first Freeplay event in 2004. Pity I had no idea it even existed back then!

And one more thing.... while you wait for more work on the poster...a fan art treat to prove my undying loyalty: http://teknikal-vision.deviantart.com/a ... -134173350
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by bobby 55 »

NICE! And a TNM plug as well :smile:
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by that guy »

Harvey smith seems to have given a few talks in australia. He was a speaker at a games conference in perth a couple of years back.
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by teknikal »

Not much to say about the poster right now. But I've started doing 3D modeling again!!! HUZZAH! :mrgreen:
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Re: TNM Poster Art Project

Post by Kee715 »

Huzzah indeed!
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