Thank You

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sleepy47
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Thank You

Post by sleepy47 »

I'd heard very little about this mod until a couple of weeks ago when I noticed on TTLG that it had been released. I had heard mention of it now and then on those boards over the years, but figured it would never see the light of day like so many other projects of this type. I immediately installed it before doing any research and was initially leery of the basic premise of the game.

A game based on an internet forum???? Didn't grab me so I started DE yet again.

However I quickly realized that I'd played it so many times that there wasn't much in the game I hadn't seen before.

So I hesitantly started TNM despite what I considered a goofy plot.

Well I can say with complete satisfaction that I'm very glad I did.

However as much as I hate to say this, I did find the opening level quite confusing. I found the map to large, with little direction on where to go or what to do, and was starting to ponder going back to the original game. However I pushed on, and once I left the first level things started to make sense.

This is Deus Ex. And although I haven't finished the game yet, it has all the great quality's of the original game and then some. The only other game in the last several years that I've enjoyed this much was VTM Bloodlines, one of my favorite games of all time, so I just wanted to thank the devs for all the hard work and years of effort that went into what in my humble opinion, is one of the finest games made since the original.
bobby 55
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Re: Thank You

Post by bobby 55 »

Welcome to the forums sleepy. Just like DX, TNM is a case of

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Trestkon
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Re: Thank You

Post by Trestkon »

Thanks Sleepy! It's always nice to know that more and more people are diving in despite the wacky premise, and usually enjoying themselves :D

And for what it's worth, we agree with you on the size of the first level. Believe it or not, that level was actually significantly *reduced* in size during development, unfortunately it still ended up being a bit too large.
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Morti
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Re: Thank You

Post by Morti »

It is a bit large but I can't think of any way you could make it smaller without it ending up looking like the Hong Kong market in DX. It's a pain moving around because it takes forever but there's so much there that I couldn't see it working any other way.
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Re: Thank You

Post by sleepy47 »

Frankly it almost put me off from playing it at all, but it was fun wandering around even if I wasn't sure exactly what to do. And that's what kept me playing. Having the familiar DX gameplay in a totally new setting was exhilarating, but that obviously can't carry a game in itself.

Thankfully just as I was starting to get frustrated I found out how open the world actually is, and that there was more than one way to get the cash to get get on the subway. From what I've played so far, I'd say it's more open than the original game in ways to complete objectives which is always a good thing.

I'm kind of surprised it hasn't gotten more press than it has. Perhaps someone with influence can get some of the "big" sites such as Gamespy or Gamespot to give it a writeup. It does deserve it.
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Jaedar
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Re: Thank You

Post by Jaedar »

sleepy47 wrote:and that there was more than one way to get the cash to get get on the subway.
If you tap into every single available source, I think there is about 2500-3000 credits total in the first area :)
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bobby 55
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Re: Thank You

Post by bobby 55 »

Gamespy?..... 8-[

Edit: 2,693 TNM downloads there if anyone's interested.
Last edited by bobby 55 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chris the cynic
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Re: Thank You

Post by chris the cynic »

sleepy47 wrote:Frankly it almost put me off from playing it at all, but it was fun wandering around even if I wasn't sure exactly what to do.
I'm not sure what they could have done about that, to be honest. Thinking back to the beginning levels of Deus Ex, they'd have two (general) ways to accomplish your goal and tell you about both of them (for both the statue and Castle Clinton your options were going in the front or the back). Anna talks about the front way in, JC asks if there is a secondary entrance. Filben gives you a key, the woman selling things next to him recommends going around back.

TNM couldn't really enumerate your options. First off there were two many, second it would make no sense in the context of the mission you are describing (we want to test if you are resourceful, you obviously aren't so I'll tell you what to do), third ... I've forgotten, but there was a third.

Of course, The entire mission could have been scrapped or replaced with something with more limited options that could have reasonably been enumerated. But other than that I don't know what they could have done.

Do you have an idea for how it could have been improved?
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Re: Thank You

Post by Jonas »

Hmm it should maybe have worked more like a tutorial level, which is to say it could've been more directed. It was actually introduced to fix another pacing problem, which was the issue that the tiny starting map would immediately open up into this huge three-hub world where the player could confusedly wander into areas where he or she had no business before he or she was even properly introduced to the world or its factions.

So we added the Downtown mission to ease players into the game more slowly, introducing the cults and PDX and WorldCorp at the same time (through overheard conversations, dialogue with certain major characters like Alpha Operator, and a few PMs from Phasmatis, Kashue, and Scara).

It's really meant to be a mission where you can just poke around in a clearly limited space without too much danger, exploring the world, testing out some of our gameplay tweaks, and getting to meet some of the major players and factions before the game "really" starts. And it's also meant to sort of teach you that the goals in the game will generally have extra solutions that become apparent if you take the time to explore the world :)

But maybe that's not really what's needed at that point in the game, maybe you just need a more directed combat experience to start out with, like Liberty Island.
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Jaedar
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Re: Thank You

Post by Jaedar »

Jonas wrote: But maybe that's not really what's needed at that point in the game, maybe you just need a more directed combat experience to start out with, like Liberty Island.
Actually, I think the opening to TNM is great, really eases you into it. And you have to assume the player is somewhat competent from the start, it is a mod after all, it requires the original.
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sleepy47
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Re: Thank You

Post by sleepy47 »

Jonas wrote:it's really meant to be a mission where you can just poke around in a clearly limited space without too much danger, exploring the world, testing out some of our gameplay tweaks, and getting to meet some of the major players and factions before the game "really" starts. And it's also meant to sort of teach you that the goals in the game will generally have extra solutions that become apparent if you take the time to explore the world :)

But maybe that's not really what's needed at that point in the game, maybe you just need a more directed combat experience to start out with, like Liberty Island.
And that's exactly what it is, and in that respect you guys did a fine job. I guess my issue was the size of the level and that some of the places you needed to find were tough to locate. Of course part of this is just me, as I've always had a problem navigating through large maps in any game. Many people loved Hong Kong in DE, but it was my least favorite because I was always getting lost.

But a lot of the early frustration was due to me not knowing that the gameplay is very very much like the original, and as I knew nothing at all about it prior to playing it, it took a while until I realized that. Once I did everything kind of fell into place.

So it wasn't meant to be a complaint. Just my personal opinion.
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Re: Thank You

Post by Jonas »

No no it was a valid criticism, and it's nice of you to clarify it. As Trestkon said, the size of the map is a problem we've always been aware of, and we've done what we could to reduce it in size, but we realise we should've probably cut another block of buildings with if only we'd had the heart to do so :)
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Made in China
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Re: Thank You

Post by Made in China »

Personally, I felt that Hong Kong was a lot densed into a single place. Shops, a police station, and exits to every sector were in the main area, while in every other area you had higher areas and lower areas, and content was spread evenly between them.

Saying that, I suddenly think that the Downtown area in TNM would've worked much better if it had a lower and higher areas - a cyberpunk esque style, making that whole part of the city a mall-living quarters fusion, with the Llama Temple built near to the ground level.
But I don't think it'll fit in with the spirit of the rest of the game (Corporate sector and the Slums being actual cities), though I can really see it working for Downtown as a stand-alone area.
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Re: Thank You

Post by Jonas »

Originally, I meant for Downtown to be much more vertically oriented, but it didn't pan out.
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Re: Thank You

Post by Grammatolatry »

I got so lost in the Downtown sector, but it was still so much fun. After resorting to ghost a few times I got the directions down (relatively) pat. It's a huge map, and it confused me that Helga's restaurant was so prominent. I thought something significant would happen there, but...no...it's just a restaurant. But it was a good point of reference.

This game is so epic and grandiose, it's certainly on par with DX. I add my thanks and congrats to the pile ^^
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