Mapping

Post by **Trestkon** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:26 am

Mlarg

My TNMItems is being retarded. What's the proper Editpackages order, again?

that guy · Post by **that guy** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:28 am

there's a thread with that information in it somewhere. The alpha thread I think. IIRC it goes TNM, TNMitems, TNMDeco, TNMChar

Post by **Jonas** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:47 am

Does the package order in this thread work?

http://www.offtopicproductions.com/foru ... .php?t=221

NVShacker · Post by **NVShacker** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:02 am

I believe there are extra precompiled dependencies (though Shane is definitely the more authoritative source for things like this):
EditPackages=DXOgg
EditPackages=Precipitation
EditPackages=CaroneElevatorSet
EditPackages=TNM
EditPackages=TNMItems
EditPackages=TNMDeco
EditPackages=TNMText
EditPackages=TNMCharacters
EditPackages=TNMDataVault
EditPackages=TNMConvos1
EditPackages=TNMConvos2

EDIT- No TNMVanilla, sorry.

Post by **Jonas** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:10 pm

Of course you and Shane are the only people who have the TNMVanilla packages, but apart from that, that looks like it.

Post by **Trestkon** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:36 pm

Righto, I'll try again tonight. If all else fails, I'll just reinstall/recompile everything:p

NVShacker · Post by **NVShacker** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:04 pm

Oh bah I didn't notice I still had TNMVanilla in there. Yeah don't use that :p

Post by **Trestkon** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:19 am

Jonas, that map is sweeet

I must first admit that I didn't find any of the secrets until I used the ghost cheat:p I really, really like the button in the microwave :-p The Rot13 one is also awesome, although I couldn't figure out how to open that door...

And now, here's all the things I wrote down on my paper:

-Maybe the fires should actually be burning wood? That might add too many BSP hole opportunites, though.

-Excellent soundfx all throughout the leve!

-OiNutter needs some sort of lights shining on him or something. He just doesn't stand out in that gigantic room like he should.

-Is something suppose to happen when I frob the lantern? I can't remember what we were going to hide with that thing.

-In the tunnels under the Melk fountain, if you bump against the ceiling there is some BSP errorage that lets you see through the ground.

-Dolphin bonus rocks, crystals are amazing (how'd you make those, anyway?)

-I couldn't actually jump out of the tunnel back into the fountain

-I thought the crickets were a bit loud in the courtyard

-I loved the gate to the maintenance area and the way it opened!

-I also like that they use shotguns on me:) However, I think we need to look at the shotgun fire sound. To me it sounds muffled and not as scary as it should.

-The Athena battle room rocks, her little pond is very nice

-WTR does that button next to the bed in the apartment do?!? (besides making a cool sound)

-Overall, I'd say it *does* feel a little empty. I mean, it's just such a massive space, and it's mostly filled with bark spouting guards. Ideally, we'd write a bunch more convos, but screw that, it makes way too much more work on the voice acting front. I'd say the level would benefit from at least one little subplot that's played out entirely in datacubes/notes/placement of items. You know, the usual interesting little deal where maybe there's a Llama spy among the guards. You could read about it in some datacubes and notes left by the Goat SS, who are looking for the spy. And then one of the guards (when killed) has something on him that makes you go, 'OMR, I killed the spy!'. ...or something like that. It's a little late right now so I'm not too into the thinking, but I might dream something up tonight:p

Fantastic job setting that all up, Jonas!!

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:26 am

Trestkon wrote:Jonas, that map is sweeet

I must first admit that I didn't find any of the secrets until I used the ghost cheat:p I really, really like the button in the microwave :-p The Rot13 one is also awesome, although I couldn't figure out how to open that door...

Heh. Do you know how to open the fountain, then? Perhaps we should put the button in a more easily found place?

-Maybe the fires should actually be burning wood? That might add too many BSP hole opportunites, though.

Shouldn't be a problem, there's a fireplace wood model in the game we can use.

-Excellent soundfx all throughout the leve!

Thanks! They took ages to place

-OiNutter needs some sort of lights shining on him or something. He just doesn't stand out in that gigantic room like he should.

Good idea, I'll duplicate the spotlights in the worship room with the statue.

-Is something suppose to happen when I frob the lantern? I can't remember what we were going to hide with that thing.

lol, that's the trigger for the door that hides the Ominous Tome

Do you think it'd be too cheap to display the message "The sound of stone grinding against stone emanates from the vicinity of the main entrance." when you frob it?

-In the tunnels under the Melk fountain, if you bump against the ceiling there is some BSP errorage that lets you see through the ground.

Hm, that sounds weird. I'll need a screenshot though.

-Dolphin bonus rocks, crystals are amazing (how'd you make those, anyway?)

lol I didn't, ZP made that whole cave

-I couldn't actually jump out of the tunnel back into the fountain

Uhm, are you sure you don't just suck?

I can do that without problems.

-I thought the crickets were a bit loud in the courtyard

Roger, I shall dampen their sound.

-I loved the gate to the maintenance area and the way it opened!

Thanks! I shamelessly stole that idea from DDL's HDTP demo map

-I also like that they use shotguns on me:) However, I think we need to look at the shotgun fire sound. To me it sounds muffled and not as scary as it should.

Hm? I really love it... but if people agree it's muffled, I'll ask Grub to look at it.

-The Athena battle room rocks, her little pond is very nice

Thanks, that's something I actually made. However, it'll be even cooler when we script it.

-WTR does that button next to the bed in the apartment do?!? (besides making a cool sound)

It reveals a badass TV in the ceiling

-Overall, I'd say it *does* feel a little empty. I mean, it's just such a massive space, and it's mostly filled with bark spouting guards. Ideally, we'd write a bunch more convos, but screw that, it makes way too much more work on the voice acting front. I'd say the level would benefit from at least one little subplot that's played out entirely in datacubes/notes/placement of items. You know, the usual interesting little deal where maybe there's a Llama spy among the guards. You could read about it in some datacubes and notes left by the Goat SS, who are looking for the spy. And then one of the guards (when killed) has something on him that makes you go, 'OMR, I killed the spy!'. ...or something like that. It's a little late right now so I'm not too into the thinking, but I might dream something up tonight:p

Alright, your ideas serve well as inspiration. I'll think about it too, and we can compare notes when we meet tonight

Also, here's a short overview of the situations where the templae will be accessible:

M20: The player is allied to the Goats.
The player is not supposed to enter the inner templae, and he will be attacked if he does so. We will set up some small text-based sub-plot as you suggest to give him a sense of purpose if he goes through the trouble.

M20: The player is allied to the Llamas (or at least did not help the Goats).
The Goat Templae will be locked and unenterable.

M22: The player is allied to the Goats.
If the player did the M20 Goat missions, he will be invited into the inner templae to speak to Athena. All guards will be friendly, the cameras won't react to his presence, and he'll get the code for the laser keypads.

M22: The player is allied to the Llamas (or did not help the Goats in M20).
The Goat Templae will be locked until the player gets the mission from Beefman to infiltrate it and assassinate Athena. That is, it will still be locked after that, but Beefman will give the player a key (obtained from that spy you mentioned in your suggestion, I guess).

Fantastic job setting that all up, Jonas!!

Thanks! A lot of people have worked on this map, I just put it all together and messed around with the gameplay a bit, but I'm happy to take all the credit, though.

Post by **Trestkon** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:26 pm

Heh, I have no idea how to open the fountain, I just fell through the bottom of it :p

I think there needs to be another hint of some kind that lets you know that the lantern actually opened something. I don't recall hearing grating stone...maybe I did, though.

Moonbo · Post by **Moonbo** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Having played the Templae level (looks great btw), my personal recommendation is that the player not be allowed to enter the inner templae in M20, wether or not he's allied with the Goats.

There's no reason to allow the player to run around "going sideways" for an extended period of time, especially since it will probably mess with continuity/fun in M22. I personally had no trouble running through the lasers and (with very little equimpent) whiping out the inner Templae...

The down side to that is:

1) It's a far-removed distraction from the main story
2) There's no real "gift/benefit" to the player for doing all that (and even if you add some data cubes that's really not going to change)
3) It will require a lot of backtracking by the player to get back into the main story

Maybe you can let the player get into the outer Templae and hear Oi's sermon if he's pro-Goat, but definately not the inner Templae. Besides, whetting the player's appetite by showing them the Templae and not letting them in doesn't hurt either.

-Gelo

Moonbo · Post by **Moonbo** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Oh, and I fell through the bottom of the fountain too, no button pushing required

.

-Gelo

Post by **Trestkon** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 2:45 pm

I agree with Gelo.

Also, I think we\'re just falling through the fountain because the bottom hasn\'t be modeled yet:)

that guy · Post by **that guy** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:22 am

Yeah I think gelo's assesment is pretty good. An added benefit of removing that is the load times.

Post by **Jonas** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:05 am

Alright, it makes me a little sad because the more streamlining we do, the more freedom we lose, but the consensus seems to be that we prohibit the player from enter the inner templae, so I'll remove it from the M20 map. I'm going to replace the lasers with a gate.

As for the fountain, you're falling through the bottom because the collision is messed up, you're not even supposed to be able to jump into it. I've fixed that now.