TNM 1.0.4+

[Hassat Hunter]

Original report:

I noticed, cheating, that the "Narcissus Haunt" scenary is a little buggy. As in, if you enter the metro you get missing "teleport" errors instead of being planted infront of Narcissus. Of course, considering it's pretty much impossible to try so without cheating, it's hardly worth fixing (if it can be done at all)...

I never said it wasn't the result of cheating.
If you kill Scara there is a "haunting" clausule in the code that makes EVERY maptransition load 20_WCFloor4 and places you infront of Narcissus. The bug is... it doesn't work except for level transitions (20-21 DXI, 22-23 ABI).

As you said it makes little difference since the only way besides maybe a total freak accident to find out is with blatent legend/openmap cheating.

[chris the cynic]

Original report:
If you kill Scara there is a "haunting" clausule in the code that makes EVERY maptransition load 20_WCFloor4 and places you infront of Narcissus.

Ah. I did not know that.

[JC_Helios]

If you kill Scara there is a "haunting" clausule in the code that makes EVERY maptransition load 20_WCFloor4 and places you infront of Narcissus. The bug is... it doesn't work except for level transitions (20-21 DXI, 22-23 ABI).

As you said it makes little difference since the only way besides maybe a total freak accident to find out is with blatent legend/openmap cheating.

Is that a "behind the scenes" bug, or would it actually screw up the game? I actually went through the game after doing this, and never noticed any bugs caused by doing it.... probably because I also got rid of the "Scara_dead" flag...

[Grenades Pwn]

Well I don't really see the point of getting rid of a bug that's only caused by cheats.
I think you can lose the stealth bonus of the Black ICE mission if you are just even heard, but not seen by TG (And thus no alarms go off). I'm not entirely sure about if i actually got caught for a split second. Anyone else up for testing?
I think Jonas can still send you PMs if your dead, you just gotta screw...up...a....lot. Prehaps make it so that if you carry an unconcious Jonas out of his lab Kashue goes madzorz?
TNM crashes if left in one level for too long.

[Hassat Hunter]

I think you can lose the stealth bonus of the Black ICE mission if you are just even heard, but not seen by TG (And thus no alarms go off). I'm not entirely sure about if i actually got caught for a split second. Anyone else up for testing?

Actually, you cannot be seen or heard by ANYONE in the entire level. It's a pain in the ass for a stealth-noob like me.
Solution: Murder everyone in cold blood before getting the quest.

I think Jonas can still send you PMs if your dead, you just gotta screw...up...a....lot. Prehaps make it so that if you carry an unconcious Jonas out of his lab Kashue goes madzorz?

Everybody can send you PM's when you're dead. Hell, you can even load the endcredits and live "happily ever after" while you just died. But what does this have to do with an unconscious Jonas? And why shouldn't you be able to drag him around for fun?

[Made in China]

I think Jonas can still send you PMs if he's dead, you just gotta screw...up...a....lot. Prehaps make it so that if you carry an unconcious Jonas out of his lab Kashue goes madzorz?

I think that's what he means.
The only way I can see this happening is that you get A2 to knock out Jonas, than carry Jonas outside of PDX and kill him there.
Therefore, Jonas = Dead, though not recognized by TNM.

[chris the cynic]

My recommended fix would be to make Jonas unpickupable.

[Hassat Hunter]

The only way I can see this happening is that you get A2 to knock out Jonas, than carry Jonas outside of PDX and kill him there.
Therefore, Jonas = Dead, though not recognized by TNM.

Hmmm, pretty sure if you do that, then re-enter PDX all hell breaks loose and you're stuck. But yeah, I guess it being possible just before going to ABI, then getting a PM from "Dead Jonas" in the HTTP.

My recommended fix would be to make Jonas unpickupable.

Sure, but... how do you do that?

[Made in China]

Wouldn't it be easier to copy the invisible sandwich code? Just make any damage dealt to unconcious Jonas damage dealt to you x2000. Insta kill for hurting him.
Also, in the spirit of the game, you could just remove all Jonas's PMs from this point onward if he's dead. It's just connecting the flag to the PM triggers. What information does he give you after A2 is added to his lab, anyway?

[Jonas]

Actually, you cannot be seen or heard by ANYONE in the entire level. It's a pain in the ass for a stealth-noob like me.

Are you absolutely sure of that? Because I think you're wrong, and I would hate to find out that some sort of bug in the code is causing you to be correct. The player detected function triggers the combat music, so you should be able to very easily tell if you've lost the bonus stealth objective: if the combat music starts playing, you've blown it. Anything up to that (including the usual "Huh!? What was that!?" etc. AI barks that play when characters have picked up on one of your AI events but haven't entirely identified you yet) should be just fine.

As for Jonas, you could try bMovable=False on his carcass. I don't know if that'll work though. I would advise against the instakill solution suggested above, that strikes me as cheesy and unfair.

[ggrotz]

While we're on bug fixes, and idea improvements, here's a couple:

1. The biggest oddity I found in TNM (1.04) is a (what I guess is?) a BSP error on the stairway in Goat City from where ZeroPresence sets up his sniper perch for OiNutter and the ground. I found that I could go downstairs but couldn't return.

2. Then an improvement - if you have one of the special weapons that use regular ammo (ZP's Rifle, Kylie's Rifle, AO's Gun), you have to swap out weapons if you want to get the ammo from the regular equivalent and you don't have space to carry both. Basically, if you want the ammo from the regular version, you have to: Drop ZP rifle, pick up sniper rifle, drop sniper rifle, pick up ZP Rifle. It's an annoyance that could definitely stand to be fixed, if possible.

[Hassat Hunter]

Are you absolutely sure of that? Because I think you're wrong, and I would hate to find out that some sort of bug in the code is causing you to be correct. The player detected function triggers the combat music, so you should be able to very easily tell if you've lost the bonus stealth objective: if the combat music starts playing, you've blown it. Anything up to that (including the usual "Huh!? What was that!?" etc. AI barks that play when characters have picked up on one of your AI events but haven't entirely identified you yet) should be just fine.

No, I was going on what I remember you telling me about sneaking there. Apparently I skipped a part in explaining it again. Point was that the stealth bonus is not just relying on TG, but the other people on the base too (odd as that may be from the convo with Evil).

As for Jonas, you could try bMovable=False on his carcass. I don't know if that'll work though. I would advise against the instakill solution suggested above, that strikes me as cheesy and unfair.

Nope. You would hang in midair upon being striken, then can still be picked up. Only you cannot be dropped anymore. I don't have to mention how this would be a very bad thing, do I?
After much fiddling I just found out bInvincible=True worked just fine. I didn't tried it at first because I thought you couldn't die no more, but apparently that can still happen, you just can't blow up the corpse anymore. Is that worth the price of fixing this "exploit"

1. The biggest oddity I found in TNM (1.04) is a (what I guess is?) a BSP error on the stairway in Goat City from where ZeroPresence sets up his sniper perch for OiNutter and the ground. I found that I could go downstairs but couldn't return.

Yeah, I know about that one. You can just jump over it though. But like I said earlier, I don't do mapfixes. the ABI one was just altering a keypad code... messing with geometry like should be done here, hmmm... no thnx. I'll leave that to a mapper .

2. Then an improvement - if you have one of the special weapons that use regular ammo (ZP's Rifle, Kylie's Rifle, AO's Gun), you have to swap out weapons if you want to get the ammo from the regular equivalent and you don't have space to carry both. Basically, if you want the ammo from the regular version, you have to: Drop ZP rifle, pick up sniper rifle, drop sniper rifle, pick up ZP Rifle. It's an annoyance that could definitely stand to be fixed, if possible.

I remember hearing one of the TNM devs (probably Jonas) mention how difficult that would be, so... no thanks. If they don't even want to try it, I certainly ain't either.

Some questions (mainly for Jonas besides the first):
* The Raving thug in the Weaponshop still has 8 pistols on day 1. I guess this is an easy fix, but it would mean adding another map to the installation... increasing size. Worth it?
* Messing about the sublevel to test my MIB fix (see below) I found out Black ICE doesn't work when the player has computer level 4. Is that intended? Also, if you use the security console on WC_Floor1 with computer 2 or 3, you get fried, and alarms go off, but none of the guards pay any attention. Any idea why that is so? Pretty sure it's not something I did, because the black ICE stuff isn't handled in the script or dialogue, which is all I altered. Does anyone who still has 1.0.4 check wheter it's the case though, just to be sure?
* Trying to fix the "NO NAME WEAPON" issue with Spiderbots I noticed that all of the spiderbots (well, all that I looked up) in TNM are just regular old DX spiderbots. Why are there several TNMSpiderbot classes if you guys kept using DXSpiderbots? Was that intentional?
* Is there a way to close doors via script instead of triggers? I looked up many instances and "Sealdoor" isn't what I need (it should be re-openable) and all the others seem to work with triggers. I tried applying the one from the FanFic shop to Raving's Weapon Shop, and that did the trick, but once opened it could never close again, which wasn't exactly the intention. The intended goal is to close Raving's and Phasmatis' doors as they lock, unlike they do now. An open locked door looks funny.

And now for... what you can expect fixed in the following version:

* Fixed many gramatical errors in the new missionupdates (thanks to Jonas)
* Fixed a display issue with the keypad to Scara's office on day 2 when playing PDX.
* You can no longer pick up Jonas' body to prevent weirdness if you drag him outside of PDX HQ and kill him there. Sadly enough this means you cannot explode his corpse either, so if you want gib parts, make sure to hit him with an explosive when still alive!
* Fixed an issue with MIB's and WIB's not dropping their items you cannot carry like other TNM NPC's so you more easily drag them off.
* Prevented the door's to Raving's Weapon shop and the Fan Fiction shop from locking with a 0% lockpick strength after being lockpicked after being closed for violence (following me here?), but still requiring a lockpick. It will now remain unlocked.
* More? ...

[Jonas]

odd as that may be from the convo with Evil

Except if you're spotted by somebody else, they will tell TG about it, eh?

After much fiddling I just found out bInvincible=True worked just fine. I didn't tried it at first because I thought you couldn't die no more, but apparently that can still happen, you just can't blow up the corpse anymore. Is that worth the price of fixing this "exploit"

Oh yeah absolutely, I thought it wouldn't let you kill an unconscious Jonas too. Cool that it works

The Raving thug in the Weaponshop still has 8 pistols on day 1. I guess this is an easy fix, but it would mean adding another map to the installation... increasing size. Worth it?

Nah that guy just got paid in guns instead of money. Makes sense when he's working for a weapons dealer, right?

Messing about the sublevel to test my MIB fix (see below) I found out Black ICE doesn't work when the player has computer level 4. Is that intended? Also, if you use the security console on WC_Floor1 with computer 2 or 3, you get fried, and alarms go off, but none of the guards pay any attention. Any idea why that is so? Pretty sure it's not something I did, because the black ICE stuff isn't handled in the script or dialogue, which is all I altered. Does anyone who still has 1.0.4 check wheter it's the case though, just to be sure?

The computers thing is intended, yes. The alarm thing is probably something about how their AI is set up, I never did fully understand how all that is supposed to work.

Trying to fix the "NO NAME WEAPON" issue with Spiderbots I noticed that all of the spiderbots (well, all that I looked up) in TNM are just regular old DX spiderbots. Why are there several TNMSpiderbot classes if you guys kept using DXSpiderbots? Was that intentional?

Dunno. We probably forgot to replace them.

Is there a way to close doors via script instead of triggers? I looked up many instances and "Sealdoor" isn't what I need (it should be re-openable) and all the others seem to work with triggers. I tried applying the one from the FanFic shop to Raving's Weapon Shop, and that did the trick, but once opened it could never close again, which wasn't exactly the intention. The intended goal is to close Raving's and Phasmatis' doors as they lock, unlike they do now. An open locked door looks funny.

Sealdoor is supposed to close the door and lock it. But we had loads of problems with that, so I'm not surprised if it still doesn't properly work.

[Hassat Hunter]

Except if you're spotted by somebody else, they will tell TG about it, eh?

How can they... IF THEY ARE DEAD ?

Cool that it works

Certainly. Just wish I found about it sooner. Darn many options tried. bStatic made Jonas just evaporate from the world, throwing his items at high velocity around the room. While fun, that wasn't a very good sollution .

The computers thing is intended, yes. The alarm thing is probably something about how their AI is set up, I never did fully understand how all that is supposed to work.

Okay. And the PM that Black ICE is supossed to send ("you have been pwned"). Was that removed for a reason (too lame?) or is it another forgotten thing like the Pimp Jojo Slums PM? (or does the trigger/function to launch it just don't work?)

Sealdoor is supposed to close the door and lock it. But we had loads of problems with that, so I'm not surprised if it still doesn't properly work.

Oh, from what I gather it works just fine. Problem is I just want the door to close, not lock aswell.
Well, I suppose I could use it if it looks the door with the strength provided, and not INF/INF, just have to add a flag and make it check that flag to have the whole procedure happen once. But from what I can see it used for, it locks INF right?

[Jonas]

How can they... IF THEY ARE DEAD ?

By reporting it in over the radio before you kill them.

Okay. And the PM that Black ICE is supossed to send ("you have been pwned"). Was that removed for a reason (too lame?) or is it another forgotten thing like the Pimp Jojo Slums PM? (or does the trigger/function to launch it just don't work?)

I don't know. I thought it worked, actually. I know it did at one point.

Oh, from what I gather it works just fine. Problem is I just want the door to close, not lock aswell.

Well it's a pretty simple function, so it should be quite straight-forward to copy the part of the function that closes the door but not the part of it that locks it. Just search for SealDoor() and you'll find the encapsulated function somewhere in one of our parent classes.