Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions topic.

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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by Xfing »

Well, I know it is entirely too late to "suggest" this, but we can discuss it at least. Though I'm sure it has already been discussed anyway.

What do you think of letting Trestkon switch allegiances throughout the game? Giving him 1 or 2 more chances to switch. The game teases the player mercilessly about the path you chose initially and does it all the time, so wouldn't it be cool if for example a WC-path Trestkon were able to get back to PDX at some point? Of course, it would require recording additional lines of dialogue and coding event flags, but this would create some new possibilities.

Advantages:

- Alleviates frustration for players who start having second thoughts about their chosen path
- More realistic
- Gives a much bigger "free will" or "choice factor" for players who DO insist on following the path they initially chose. Basically, you're given 2 or 3 chances at redemption, yet you still choose to shit on them.
- Given a particular set of choices, the player could complete some quests of the PDX storyline and some of the WC storyline on a signle run

Disadvantages:

- It would take a humongous amount of work and a lot of brainstorming to implement.
- Would carry the risk of decreasing the consequence of the player's action thus far in the game. Then again, the quests are done in such a way that it probably wouldn't if done well
- Could make the game too convoluted for some

For example: you kill the Silver Dragon and join WC. Kashue is livid at you. But assuming Trestkon makes a nonlethal run when he infiltrates PDX for Scara, Kashue could notice this and appreciate the gesture, allowing Trestkon another chance to rejoin PDX. Trestkon naturally could disagree and keep doing what he's been doing, but Kashue could probably try and reach out to him once again when the time has come to retrieve the Fire Staff. Of course dialogue could be different depending on whether Trestkon spread carnage in PDX or left everyone alive. Then perhaps one last chance at redemption could be given to Trestkon aboard the GameSpy station after the holographic conversation with Kashue. Of course, the player initially running with WC would face analogous possibilities.

Have you ever even briefly considered something like this?
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Jonas
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by Jonas »

Yeah we considered it a lot, but we're pretty big on long-term choice and consequence. Emphasis on the consequence part.

It's also important to remember the psychological effect where people who make a choice knowing they can't change it later are more likely to be happy with their decision as time passes. People who know they can change their mind at any time are more likely to become malcontent and change their decision later on.

And finally, TNM's story logic is already complex enough to melt most brains. Any more complexity, and I would've died by aneurism.
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by Xfing »

Jonas wrote: It's also important to remember the psychological effect where people who make a choice knowing they can't change it later are more likely to be happy with their decision as time passes. People who know they can change their mind at any time are more likely to become malcontent and change their decision later on.
You know what? You've got a very valid point there. I also have observed a psychological effect like this. In myself, even. In Might and Magic VII, for example. I also had times when I thought it would be nice if I could switch allegiances, but on the other hand I did grow fond of being evil in time. I just started to put myself in the mindset the game wanted me to put myself in. This is in itself, rewarding.
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by Jonas »

The only real fuck-up we made, in my opinion, was something Chris the Cynic (the actual guy, not the character) pointed out during testing - at the end in the WorldCorp storyline when you talk to King Kashue on a holocom in the space station, there is literally no logical reason for him not to try to convince you to switch sides. At that point, he has no agent on the station that he's aware of, he has no means of stopping Trestkon at all, his only hope would be to make Trest change his mind and join the good guys at the last moment. But he decides to be stubbornly confrontational against all reason, which doesn't even fit his character in any way.

Obviously we couldn't have Kashue ask you to switch sides, because then we would have to give you the actual option to switch sides, and again - refer to my previous point about aneurisms. But it's a damn shame, because it's a huge fucking plot hole :?
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by Hassat Hunter »

Having him try to make Trestkon switch, then at the critical moment have someone cut the connection with him, so you're never even given the option or hear what to do?
Probably wouldn't have worked anyway, but it's the best I can come upon ATM (and will obviously never be in)...
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Oh wait, I already got one...
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by Jonas »

I think the best option would've been to have him indicate that Deus Diablo somehow managed to establish contact with PDX when Trestkon used the firestaff to open up the atmosphere.

But it's a bit late for that, and hindsight is 20/20 :)
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by Xfing »

Time for some strictly gameplay stuff now. What I've noticed recently:

- If you knock out the dude Trestkon uses the help of to get to the fire escape next to Sol's, he strangely enough still answers the holocom. I did this before even leaving Downtown. Also murdered Jackie and Alpha in cold blood and looted the bar. Haha. Anyway, forgot the dude's name, but could you please check if he also does that if he's dead? I don't think he's absolutely necessary to get there, since the door has a 100 strength value, which means it can be breached by force.

- I never see any damage reduction screens for Environmental Resistance or Ballistic Protection. Do they even work?
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by JeniSkunk »

Xfing wrote:If you knock out the dude Trestkon uses the help of to get to the fire escape next to Sol's, he strangely enough still answers the holocom. I did this before even leaving Downtown. Also murdered Jackie and Alpha in cold blood and looted the bar. Haha. Anyway, forgot the dude's name, but could you please check if he also does that if he's dead? I don't think he's absolutely necessary to get there, since the door has a 100 strength value, which means it can be breached by force.
The name of the NPC in the apartment is Aemer.
The sidewalk level door to his apartment block cannot be broken by brute force. Its strength is set as inf. I've done spawnmass of 50 GEP rockets at it, for no damage to it.
However, the metal door in the chain-link fence, under the fire escape, is destructible. As you noted, its strength is set at 100.
I usually combo breaching that with... collecting... an item for another NPC. :twisted:

As for Sol's, in serious gameplay, I leave it intact for the extra credits that can be obtained on day 1.
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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions to

Post by JeniSkunk »

Jonas wrote:The only real fuck-up we made, in my opinion,
I don't see it as a plot hole.
THINK.

WC Trest was sent to Phas' apt to kill Phas. In the convo, WC Trest makes it abundantly clear he is sick and tired of the BS power games of PDX, and that nothing Phas says will change his mind. And part of that is the 2 years of dead air between when WC Trest left PDXFC in the wake of the meltdown of the PDXCIS, and game current when Phas ropes him in to solving the DD abduction.
Over the two days of the game, WC Trest has been used as a live target by PDX and ABI forces.
KK would know of all of that above.
So KK would also know that there would be no amount of begging or pleading that would make WC Trest change his mind and turn traitor on WC for PDX.

The KK convo where there WAS a plot hole is the initial one about SD. All throughout that convo Trest plays it exactly like a Good, Unthinking, Willing, Obedient, Droid Soldier.
In the earlier convo with Phas, you get the option to say I don't want to work for or with PDX. But there's no similar convo path with KK.
Obviously we couldn't have Kashue ask you to switch sides, because then we would have to give you the actual option to switch sides, and again - refer to my previous point about aneurisms. But it's a damn shame, because it's a huge fucking plot hole :?
In my opinion, the real plot hole is there was no third path available to take. DXO.
In the initial convo with Phas you actually have a middle path option, but you never attempted to capitalize on it.
A pure DXO, or a DXO-Ryan game would have been VERY interesting.

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Re: Unofficial: Suggestions, Gameplay Help, and Questions topic.

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