Stuck on WC game, just joined WC

[Dark Reality]

Let's see. I've just joined Scara at WC, I've met Raving and got my guns, I told Scara about his nefarious plot, but Scara didn't tell me to kill him (though, he said he would have him killed). Is he supposed to? He did have me put that virus on Evil Invasion's laptop. It got messy. He died - him, and Chrissy, and about half a dozen security guards. Love the double .45s. (And yes, I killed Chrissy just 'cuz.)

My one objective is to find DXO in the freezer at Sol's. Well, I KO'd AO to get his stuff for the free subway pass, and killed that girl Trestkon apparently had a relationship with before, in a firefight. (She was tough. I cheated. Was I not supposed to survive that encounter?) Kylie, I think. Anyway, I go to Sol's, and the door is locked, INF/INF. I don't have the key (password). I use opensesame to get it open, and *nobody* is in there. Also the keypad in question is INF/INF and I don't recall getting that code.

So I leave, and use opensesame on the door to the right of Sol's, as you face it, and met the guy in his apartment. He let me through, I went down into the alley, used opensesame on that door - and wound up back in the freezer. So I guess I found that way, but no DXO.

I have a feeling my flags are all buggered somehow, as it would seem there's something that's supposed to happen that hasn't yet. Any ideas?

[Kee715]

Last I checked if you kill ANYONE in Sol's Bar it gets locked and emptied FOREVER.

But I have never done so myself, I never had a reason to kill anyone in there and I read that killing ANYONE gets you locked out FOREVER.

[JC_Helios]

Kylie gives you the password to DXO: 201813

[Jonas]

Also: Cheat less.

[Dark Reality]

Last I checked if you kill ANYONE in Sol's Bar it gets locked and emptied FOREVER.

But I have never done so myself, I never had a reason to kill anyone in there and I read that killing ANYONE gets you locked out FOREVER.

So, does that mean my game is pretty much hosed?

Also, does it mean that if you get the free subway pass, your game is hosed, since KO'ing AO requires fighting Kylie, or do you just make a bee line for the door and hope she doesn't mow you down like fish in a barrel? Because I was pretty sure I needed to KO AO to get that program, and I figured if I was being attacked, would be a good reason to stick around and fight.

Kylie gives you the password to DXO: 201813

OK, I'll try that. But won't that just let me out into the alley?

Also: Cheat less.

Kind of a Catch-22. Especially being on my third game so far. Has anybody actually completed this? Because it seems like no matter what I do, at some point the flags or whatever trip over themselves and I wind up with no objectives that can be complete. I'd like to know, because I enjoy playing it, and I'd like to know there's an end which can realistically be reached.

So, back up a bit. Where I'm at in the WC storyline, I'm supposed to go back to Sol's bar, it's supposed to be open, and I'm supposed to get the code from Kylie? And the free subway pass is off limits for players wishing to pursue the WC path? Not that I need it; I have plenty of credits to buy the pass, I just figured I'd save 1000 of them. Or... is there some way to distract Kylie so I can KO AO and get out safely?

I know it's a mess. Thanks for the help. And of course for the team, thanks for TNM.

[chris the cynic]

Last I checked if you kill ANYONE in Sol's Bar it gets locked and emptied FOREVER.

But I have never done so myself, I never had a reason to kill anyone in there and I read that killing ANYONE gets you locked out FOREVER.

So, does that mean my game is pretty much hosed?

No. (Well, maybe but not for the reason listed.)

Also, does it mean that if you get the free subway pass, your game is hosed, since KO'ing AO requires fighting Kylie, or do you just make a bee line for the door and hope she doesn't mow you down like fish in a barrel?

No.

Because I was pretty sure I needed to KO AO to get that program

Yes.

and I figured if I was being attacked, would be a good reason to stick around and fight.

That depends on how you define good idea.

Kylie gives you the password to DXO: 201813

OK, I'll try that. But won't that just let me out into the alley?

Why on earth should that be the case?

Also: Cheat less.

Kind of a Catch-22. Especially being on my third game so far. Has anybody actually completed this?

Many, many people.

Because it seems like no matter what I do, at some point the flags or whatever trip over themselves and I wind up with no objectives that can be complete.

You have stumbled upon a bug, it would seem, but it is quite possible to finish the game without cheating most of the time.

I'd like to know, because I enjoy playing it, and I'd like to know there's an end which can realistically be reached.

There are several.

So, back up a bit. Where I'm at in the WC storyline, I'm supposed to go back to Sol's bar, it's supposed to be open, and I'm supposed to get the code from Kylie?

No. You are supposed to get a code from Kylie at the subway station, or at least you were until you killed her. As it is Scara should have scolded you for killing her and given you the code himself. (The fact that that didn't happen means either that you have found a real live bug, or that your cheating to kill Kylie has somehow screwed over your flags.)

Then you are to go to the freezer of Sol's bar. Having not gone gun crazy I don't know exactly what is supposed to happen in your situation, but if I had to guess I'd say you should go in through the back door as your actions have caused the front door to become locked. Once in there you are to use the code that you should have gotten from Scara (since you killed Kylie.)

[Dark Reality]

Thanks for the replies. I'm left with a couple questions.

1. How do I legitimately enter Sol's from the back entrance? I need a code to open the gate which I never got, or a key to go into the apartment. And that's to go in through the freezer.

2. So I did have to cheat to kill Kylie. I thought it was strange that she glowed yellow. What is that, some super shield?

3. You said yes, I had to KO AO to get the program (and get the free subway pass) but that killing Kylie might have messed me up? So does that mean the free subway pass and the WC path are mutually exclusive or am I missing something? Or do you mean that if I KO AO and escape Kylie's super AR of death, she'll play nice when I see her in the subway later?

I won't be able to play for a while, but when I can, I'll try that code and see where it gets me.

[Jonas]

1. How do I legitimately enter Sol's from the back entrance? I need a code to open the gate which I never got, or a key to go into the apartment. And that's to go in through the freezer.

You either buzz Aemer's apartment on the intercom so he opens the door (may not be possible because you never talked to Kylie, but that's part of a bug that we've already fixed for patch 1.0.2) or you blow up the door. It's quite blow-up-able.

2. So I did have to cheat to kill Kylie. I thought it was strange that she glowed yellow. What is that, some super shield?

No, you can kill her without cheating, it's just very hard. Killing her (with or without cheats) should not cause the game to get stuck, but that too is part of the bug mentioned above.

3. You said yes, I had to KO AO to get the program (and get the free subway pass) but that killing Kylie might have messed me up? So does that mean the free subway pass and the WC path are mutually exclusive or am I missing something? Or do you mean that if I KO AO and escape Kylie's super AR of death, she'll play nice when I see her in the subway later?

It's possible (and generally quite easy, not sure how you messed it up) to knock out Alpha without alerting anybody. This is because Deus Ex's AI is a little quirky, let's pretend it's because everybody happens to be looking away at the exact moment you zap him in the back. You just have to be fast and precise and nobody will panic. And also yes, if you manage to get Kylie to attack you but escape, she'll play nice when you see her in the subway later.

[odawali]

1. How do I legitimately enter Sol's from the back entrance? I need a code to open the gate which I never got, or a key to go into the apartment. And that's to go in through the freezer.

Blow open the door with a LAM, stack objects to get over the fence, or ring apartment #3 to be let in.

2. So I did have to cheat to kill Kylie. I thought it was strange that she glowed yellow. What is that, some super shield?

You fight a lot of augmented enemies in TNM. The yellow glow is likely Ballistic Protection. Just so you know in advance, enemies with Vision Enhancement will see through your Cloak.

3. You said yes, I had to KO AO to get the program (and get the free subway pass) but that killing Kylie might have messed me up? So does that mean the free subway pass and the WC path are mutually exclusive or am I missing something?

That you can kill AO and avoid killing Kylie by just running away. Just because a fight breaks out in DX, doesn't mean you have to kill every hostile on the map to proceed.

[JC_Helios]

Counters= the ultimate corpse cloak aug.

Dave doesn't even notice AO falling behind the counter and he's staring right at him. Just get behind AO and prod him in the spine, no one at all notices.

Same thing works for Hammer and Sickle if you want to punish him for disrespecting Steve while they're still talking.

[Dark Reality]

You either buzz Aemer's apartment on the intercom so he opens the door (may not be possible because you never talked to Kylie, but that's part of a bug that we've already fixed for patch 1.0.2) or you blow up the door. It's quite blow-up-able.

Really? I could have sworn it was INF/INF. More interestingly... I don't know why, but I could have sworn those 5 numbers were a code entry thingy. Why a real keypad wasn't used did not occur to me. Really, I'm not the idiot I must seem, it's just... well... lots of things.

Dave doesn't even notice AO falling behind the counter and he's staring right at him. Just get behind AO and prod him in the spine, no one at all notices.

Is the spine TNM's answer to DX's knees? Because in DX, if you were Trained, you could prod anybody in the back of the knees and they'd fall most of the time with just one. With Advanced it was just about guaranteed. However, this doesn't seem to work in TNM. Specifically, Raving killed me because I broke his chair (which didn't turn him hostile) and then prodded him in the back of the knees. Not only did he not go down, but he turned and attacked me. It was over quite quickly. Prod vs. whatever he pulled out (I don't recall) means instant loss, lol. Now am I just doing it wrong or do I need to be striking higher up (e.g. mid-back)?

Thanks again for the replies. Wife's singing on Rock Band and I don't play DX unless I'm in the right atmosphere. That's dark with as little other sound as possible, which ain't gonna happen tonight. Maybe tomorrow evening when she's at work...

...Oh yeah, about when can we expect Patch 1.0.2? I hear it fixes a few things that have been troubling me; maybe I'll just delete all my saves and start over with it. I promise no cheating if I can help it. Jonas - you already said you'd forgive people for using ghost/fly to get over that lava pit in DXI, don't remember the topic (probably the first Bugs topic for 1.0.0) so I'm gonna stick with that... though quicksave/quickload works too. This ain't Tomb Raider though!

[JC_Helios]

The back of the head, or the center of the abdomen just above the buttocks(where the pants meet the shirt; supposedly the only effective way to prod-KO MJ12 Commandos) seem to be the most effective places to hit. You can't reach AO's head without alerting people, so the spine is probably best.

The 20th most likely.

[DDL]

Actually the damage code is based on proximity and angle: if you're behind them and there are less than 64uunits (about three or four feet) between the centre of your player actor and the centre of the pawn (centre is just above the waist, more or less), then they take damage*10, which is usually an instant kill/KO.

Sitting pawns often present a problem because their centre is shifted downwards, increasing the chances of you being outside that 64 uunit boundary.

Also, it is just damage*10, not instakill, so depending on the pawns health, it still might not be enough.

[Dark Reality]

Actually the damage code is based on proximity and angle: if you're behind them and there are less than 64uunits (about three or four feet) between the centre of your player actor and the centre of the pawn (centre is just above the waist, more or less), then they take damage*10, which is usually an instant kill/KO.

Sitting pawns often present a problem because their centre is shifted downwards, increasing the chances of you being outside that 64 uunit boundary.

Also, it is just damage*10, not instakill, so depending on the pawns health, it still might not be enough.

Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.

However, if you were using a riot prod, wouldn't you have to be within 3 feet?

[DDL]

Three feet from CENTRE to CENTRE, given that both damager and damagee are represented as cylinders. Quite wide cylinders, actually, so it works out to be about...a foot of actual space beween you, max.

And all HtH weapons have range, incidentally.

Just...very very short range.