Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

[Fritz]

So, in 1st mission its all OK but mission 2 is bugged and needed to fix script?

[Cybernetic pig]

-actually- can anything be done to make the sawed off shotgun worth having, especially in terms of making them more lethal in the hands of enemies? It tends to be the case, imo, that NPCs with pistols are far more dangerous than those with sawed offs

Well, in scripted pawn you could probably make a custom script so the base accuracy of the sawed off is much better in the hands of enemies but default when picked up by the player....or something. But what I did for my mod was simply improve sawed off wielding enemies accuracy themselves in the maps via UED. 0.1 was a good float I think.

So, in 1st mission its all OK but mission 2 is bugged and needed to fix script?

Yes, seems so.

Learn something new about DX every day. You decide if it is a waste of knowledge & time or not I say it's worth it

[Neveos]

-actually- can anything be done to make the sawed off shotgun worth having, especially in terms of making them more lethal in the hands of enemies? It tends to be the case, imo, that NPCs with pistols are far more dangerous than those with sawed offs

Well, in scripted pawn you could probably make a custom script so the base accuracy of the sawed off is much better in the hands of enemies but default when picked up by the player....or something. But what I did for my mod was simply improve sawed off wielding enemies accuracy themselves in the maps via UED. 0.1 was a good float I think.

Sounds good.

[G-Flex]

So, in 1st mission its all OK but mission 2 is bugged and needed to fix script?

I've already done this, and it's probably fixed in Shifter and Deus Ex 2.0 as well. The upcoming version will have some better fixes related to this, since I changed carcasses to never actually be destroyed (when destroyed or if an NPC is gibbed, the carcass simply goes into a different state), so the game can better keep track of who killed who.

I apologize for the lack of updates recently. Things have been a little delayed due to Regular Life Stuff, but more progress should be made in the near future.

-actually- can anything be done to make the sawed off shotgun worth having, especially in terms of making them more lethal in the hands of enemies? It tends to be the case, imo, that NPCs with pistols are far more dangerous than those with sawed offs

If it matters, my mod makes NPCs more accurate at higher difficulties (which I may have revamped a little for the next version; it's been so long I hardly remember) which could help. I think the real problem here is that NPCs think the sawed-off shotgun is a good weapon for open combat in the first place, considering its godawful rate of fire.

[Neveos]

Yeah, I dunno what it is, but it's like, even on hard, they will miss you point blank, and even when they hit, it's like barely any damage, which sucks because they only get 4 shots, and as soon as they go for the reload, it takes them half an hour. I know that a pistol shot to the head will kill the player on hard, but a sawed off to the head will not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs52fI9_zaE

A pistol would have knocked me out sooner and at a greater range, and I would think a blast at that range from the sawed off should either kill the player, on hard, or knock off a limb.

I dunno how to mod things, but I would think: make the damage ridiculously good to compensate for slow rate of fire, since the weapon sucks at everything else: recoil is terrible, clip size, reload time, and draw time. Also the mod eliminates it's usefulness as a high-powered sniping weapon, so the most you could end up with is a crappy version of what the dragon's tooth was.

It would also become useful as an entry weapon (breaking doors) if you gave it 10 damage per pellet. -infact I just tested it, and it really doesn't make the weapon too powerful in the hands of the player to double the damage. I guess the modder will have to see how it is in the hands of an NPC.

-edit- oh you know what, I just realized I can make a subclass for my mod. Oh well, but anyway, it's up to you if you want. I'm making the mod under the supposition that people in the future will play the original DX with your 2.0 version, and then transition into my IW revision, and it would help to not deviate the guns too much.

[Neveos]

Yeah, here's a test at double damage. It's worth it, imo. Useful alternative thug weapon, and makes it dangerous to ignore them in a close area, like running by some of them in a hallway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I29W0SICmQA

[Cybernetic pig]

Yeah, here's a test at double damage. It's worth it, imo. Useful alternative thug weapon, and makes it dangerous to ignore them in a close area, like running by some of them in a hallway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I29W0SICmQA

Take note that vanilla the sawed off is an absolute beast in the hands of the player, modded out + max skill. I often choose it over the assault shotgun. Giving it double damage would also make it double damage for the player.

For my mod along with the pawn accuracy I also gave it +1 damage.

That does look how it should be in the vid, 1-3 shots at close range, but it would be overkill in the hands of the player.

[Neveos]

Yeah, here's a test at double damage. It's worth it, imo. Useful alternative thug weapon, and makes it dangerous to ignore them in a close area, like running by some of them in a hallway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I29W0SICmQA

Take note that vanilla the sawed off is an absolute beast in the hands of the player, modded out + max skill. I often choose it over the assault shotgun. Giving it double damage would also make it double damage for the player.

For my mod along with the pawn accuracy I also gave it +1 damage.

That does look how it should be in the vid, 1-3 shots at close range, but it would be overkill in the hands of the player.

right, but not with this mod. That's because vanilla calculates the spread based on the pip distance. I already ran around trying to use it like an over-powered weapon, and it's not with this mod.

[Cybernetic pig]

Oh right, you have done other modifications to it. Cool.

[Fritz]

If JC knocked out Lebedev, that game set flag that Lebedev was killed.
So looks like problems is 2 mission and with Lebedev too.

[G-Flex]

Yeah, I dunno what it is, but it's like, even on hard, they will miss you point blank, and even when they hit, it's like barely any damage, which sucks because they only get 4 shots, and as soon as they go for the reload, it takes them half an hour. I know that a pistol shot to the head will kill the player on hard, but a sawed off to the head will not:

Which mod did you test this with? In my mod, pellet spread is calculated differently, so results should be more similar to non-shotgun weapons than they are in the vanilla game or in Shifter.

It would also become useful as an entry weapon (breaking doors) if you gave it 10 damage per pellet. -infact I just tested it, and it really doesn't make the weapon too powerful in the hands of the player to double the damage. I guess the modder will have to see how it is in the hands of an NPC.

10 damage per pellet results in a weapon that does 50 damage. That's at least double the damage of the sniper rifle, which is honestly kind of absurd. Also, my mod already treats sabot rounds as a single slug instead of multiple pellets, which already makes it better for breaking doors, and 10 damage per pellet is useless for breaking doors anyway; even the minicrossbow is better at passing damage thresholds.

If JC knocked out Lebedev, that game set flag that Lebedev was killed.
So looks like problems is 2 mission and with Lebedev too.

Nah, this is completely normal. If an NPC is KO'd, it sets the "dead" flag and the "unconscious" flag. What flags actually get checked is up to the mission script and conversation packages.

[Neveos]

It's all good. I'm gonna use a subclass. It's just an absolute death sentence for an NPC without this compromise, and I need it to be better than the pistol, or all of my thug class citizenry are relegated to pistol use (other than the pistol and dart gun, it's the only thing believably wielded by a random person, as it is concealable).

Also, having double the sniper damage (only in conditions considerably point blank, since all the pellets need to hit) with a shotgun is a reasonable assertion, imo. I guess you'll just have to trust me: it's not over-powered at all, and potentially makes it worth having in the inventory, should one decide to mod it out- but the most important thing it does: is to make it a better weapon for NPCs in close range conditions.

[Neveos]

As for player use:

There's a comparison to the other rifle guns fully modded out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMsqXgVrKnM

Kinda becomes a one-shotter. A fully modded pistol or sniper rifle are better one-shotters. I really don't think it's so unbalanced that it isn't worth boosting it for NPC use.

The potential as a primary weapon could be seen as easter-eggy since it is so sucky to start. I think I would just give the sawed off the same accuracy dynamics as the assault shotgun (to trim down on some of it's sniping capacity). But the overall penalty with using it is: don't miss, because you won't fire again for 3 seconds.

[Cybernetic pig]

As for player use:

There's a comparison to the other rifle guns fully modded out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMsqXgVrKnM
.

That's flawed. Sawed off kills in one hit almost guaranteed now. How well will it do against higher health enemies: MIBs, bots, doors, greasels, karkians etc.

Skill improvements raise by percentage as well so a larger boost.

[Neveos]

As for player use:

There's a comparison to the other rifle guns fully modded out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMsqXgVrKnM
.

That's flawed. Sawed off kills in one hit almost guaranteed now. How well will it do against higher health enemies: MIBs, bots, doors, greasels, karkians etc.

Skill improvements raise by percentage as well so a larger boost.

that was fully skilled. Anything not killed by it in one shot presents the gun's weakness: rate of fire. The pistol and sniper rifle are capable of the same feat, if not better. I do agree that it is too accurate.

I would simply suggest making it as inaccurate as the assault shotgun to offset it's sniping capacity.

The alternative is that the gun sucks for the player and especially for the NPCs. I think decreasing it's accuracy, and doubling it's damage is warranted.