Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

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G-Flex
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

Dragon wrote:
G-Flex wrote:Like you were saying, what you would need to do is: Draw the circle at some constant distance from the player's view (instead of a distance relative to maximum range), and draw the trace to there, but extend the trace to such a length that the weapon's range is respected. Of course, this would require calculating the distance between the viewpoint and that point on the circle, so you'd know how far to extend/retract the trace.
No need for that. Nobody prevents you from choosing 1 as the distance where you calculate your circle. So it all boils down to multiply the result by the distance to the end of the trace (typically the firing range).
Not quite true. Even if the center of the circle is 1 unit away from you, the distance between you and the chosen point on that circle is not 1 unit. Obviously, the entire circle can't be the same distance away from you! So you have to account for the actual distance between you and the point on the circle being used for the trace, since that differs from the distance between you and that circle's center. This would require some more squares and square roots.
That's though not correct. You do not need an even distribution in the cone. What you need is an even distribution in the target circle as if the circle is painted on a wall and you shot at it.
Define "need". I said that the distribution is different, not worse. With my method, the angle of fire is flatly distributed between 0 and the maximum (as determined by accuracy). With your method, the distance of the bullet hole from the center of a circle is flatly distributed. These aren't the same thing, and the latter results in more shots landing on the outside of the circle. Which one you think is more "correct" is a matter of opinion. I personally feel it's more reasonable for firing angle to be flatly distributed (e.g. if your shot can be between 1 degree off and 3 degrees off, all angles within that range are equally likely), whereas you apparently feel it's more reasonable for the distance from center on a hypothetical surface straight ahead within the firing circle to be flatly distributed (e.g. if your shot at a wall ten feet away can be between 1 inch and 3 inches off, all distances from center within that range are equally likely). My solution is more similar to how actual gunfire would work.
The formula I gave is mathematically correct and evenly distributed in the circle. Furthermore the maximum spread angle is an input variable as you requested. So you have everything you need:
1) upper spread angle limit as input variable (angle based spread)
2) even distribution in a circle (circular impact shape, mathematically correct as long as PRNG is good enough)
3) easy and fast to calculate (requires only one sin, cos and tan)

So what is missing so it is not a viable solution?
It's not the same solution. You like yours better and I like mine better, but they are not mathematically equivalent.

"Even distribution is a circle" is only "mathematically correct" in the sense that it's what you apparently think the situation should be. If the firing angle is what is flatly distributed, then the shots within the hypothetical circle will not be flatly distributed. I feel it makes more sense for the firing angle to be distributed evenly than the points on the circle, and certainly trying to distribute the shots evenly per unit area on the circle makes even less sense to me.


I also don't understand how you plan to do any of this using only one randomized variable. That doesn't conceptually make any sense to me. Not only must you randomize the size of the cone (radius, firing angle, however you want to do it), but you also need to randomize where on that cone the trace falls. I do not believe it is conceptually possible to do this using only one randomized input.



In conclusion: You're right that your basic concept works. However, the shot distribution is not "more correct" except for some particular (and in my opinion very strange) concept of what "correct" distribution should be, it requires more math than you say it does, and you would have to be very careful to make sure the targeting reticule still matches your accuracy, since the targeting reticule is inherently angle-based with the angle varying linearly with accuracy (although you can certainly change how this is calculated as well). The shot distribution could definitely be made more my definition of "correct" if you randomize the spread angle instead of the radius and go from there, of course.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Dragon »

I don't want to step on your feet there G-Flex but it looks like you do not get the mathematical problem of probability concerning disk point picking. Maybe this graphics helps to show where the problem is:
Image
Your idea is the image on the left. With a linear choice of the radius random number you mass hit points on the center. My version with the probability correction is the image on the right side. As you can see the shots are evenly spaced inside the circle disk. Although it looks logic that a linear sweeping along the angle from 0 to spread gives a correct uniform spreading of impact points it's mathematically incorrect as the image above shows. If you don't believe me please have a look at this article, which is also where the image comes from. If you use this disk solution and you shoot at a wall you get an evenly distributed disk matching the aiming circle if you choose the radius of the circle at 1 distance to match the aiming circle (which is simple math if you know the near camera distance).

Concerning the 1-distance point, yes, the circle is on a plane along the view frustum. The distance to a circle point relative to the shot original would be only equal on a sphere. The formula above though works also well for this case since the spread angles are small. If you want a fully correct solution you can take the 3rd dimension into consideration and calculate X, Y, and Z from the two random values using polar coordinates (formula for the unit sphere). This would be then though sphere point picking which is an unnecessary can of worms to open. Using a flat disk distribution is definitely the solution to prefer over a proper sphere distribution.

I'm not sure what your version is supposed to look like. The correct version is using radius and angle being two random numbers (polar coordinate system). This yields an evenly distributed disk. If you use though theta and phi as two random numbers you get a square not a circle. Granted if you create a square then both theta and phi have to be spaced linearly to obtain an even distribution. But as far as I read here the idea is to make it match the aiming circle... and thus to make it a circle not a square. Correct me if I understood this incorrectly.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

Dragon wrote:I don't want to step on your feet there G-Flex but it looks like you do not get the mathematical problem of probability concerning disk point picking. Maybe this graphics helps to show where the problem is:
Image
Your idea is the image on the left. With a linear choice of the radius random number you mass hit points on the center. My version with the probability correction is the image on the right side. As you can see the shots are evenly spaced inside the circle disk. Although it looks logic that a linear sweeping along the angle from 0 to spread gives a correct uniform spreading of impact points it's mathematically incorrect as the image above shows. If you don't believe me please have a look at this article, which is also where the image comes from. If you use this disk solution and you shoot at a wall you get an evenly distributed disk matching the aiming circle if you choose the radius of the circle at 1 distance to match the aiming circle (which is simple math if you know the near camera distance).
Dude, I don't deny that you know how to pick a random point on a circle such that any given point on the circle is equally likely to be chosen. That's not the issue, and I totally understand what you're saying and agree that your stated method for determining points on a circle with equally distributed area is correct. My issue is that such a distribution isn't necessarily the best one for this circumstance.

Concerning the 1-distance point, yes, the circle is on a plane along the view frustum. The distance to a circle point relative to the shot original would be only equal on a sphere. The formula above though works also well for this case since the spread angles are small. If you want a fully correct solution you can take the 3rd dimension into consideration and calculate X, Y, and Z from the two random values using polar coordinates (formula for the unit sphere).
If you only care about it being mostly accurate for smallish angles, then Human Renovation 1.0's solution suffices anyway and only requires a single sin() and a single cos() operation (although I guess the trace function still has to turn it into a vector).
I'm not sure what your version is supposed to look like. The correct version is using radius and angle being two random numbers (polar coordinate system). This yields an evenly distributed disk. If you use though theta and phi as two random numbers you get a square not a circle. Granted if you create a square then both theta and phi have to be spaced linearly to obtain an even distribution. But as far as I read here the idea is to make it match the aiming circle... and thus to make it a circle not a square. Correct me if I understood this incorrectly.
First off, you're way too hung up on evenly distributing over a disc. If that's what you want the firing spread to look like, that's okay, but it's not realistic. Yes, you know the proper method for choosing points that are equally distributed over the area of a disc. The idea that that's what you need is an assumption on your part, as it's neglecting the physical reality of what's going on.

The physical reality of it is that you're aiming a gun, you're off by a certain angle, and thereby your shot falls somewhere on a circle aimed at a wall. My method is perfectly correct if you assume that the firing angle itself should be flatly distributed. In my solution, any and all angles of fire (e.g. the possible angles defining the firing cone) are equally likely, as are any and all orientations on that cone (i.e. the ray lying on the cone of possibilities defined by the firing angle), and I consider that the most proper and realistic method, even if it's not exactly what Deus Ex does in the first place.

When I talk about needing to randomize two variables, I mean in general, yes, you do, because you're working in multiple dimensions. In Deus Ex, the x and y coordinates are each randomly chosen. In Shifter, the pitch and yaw are each randomly chosen. In my mod, the angle of fire and the orientation of that angle are randomly chosen. For example, in the link you posted yourself about disk point picking. Both theta and r are random numbers; this is a stated assumption in the introduction.


So your math isn't wrong, but I feel your application of it is, or at least relies on different assumptions or goals than mine does. The way I see it, the angle by which your shot is off should be a flat distribution. In other words, if your shot is liable to have an angle between 0 degrees and 15 degrees off from center, then the range (0,5) should have the same probability as the range (5,10) or (10,15). In yet other words, all angles of inaccuracy within the cone should be equally likely. If you assume this, then you get something that looks basically like the left-hand image in that Disk Point Picking article. Working at this backward: If the distribution is flat over the disc in terms of area (as you suggest), that means that worse firing angles are more common than more accurate ones! This is trivially provable by the fact that if the firing angle itself is flatly distributed, then per-area more shots are in the center. In your solution, given a firing cone between 0 degrees and 15 degrees as before, shots are actually more likely to fall within the (10,15) range of angle than the (5,10) range, which is itself more likely than the (0,5) range. I see no reason why the player should be more likely to shoot at a given bad angle than a given good one. If anything I'd feel the opposite should be the case, with a gaussian distribution of angles such that the resulting angle of fire gets less and less likely as it becomes less and less accurate, but that's not terribly applicable to this game. If the firing angle is completely and uniformly random, then at higher angles there's a bigger "circle" (as in, circumference) around which the shot may fall, therefore per unit area the shots are less tightly clustered. There is also the fact that as angle increases, a given increase is angle results in a larger distance between points projected onto a plane (shooting at a wall at an angle 10 degrees from perpendicular than shooting it a 15 degree angle results in a given distance between those bullet holes; shooting it at an angle 84 degrees from perpendicular then 89 degrees from perpendicular results in a larger distance between those two bullet holes than in the 15->20 example).

The fact of the matter is that we both seem to know the math well enough, but are applying it based on different assumptions.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Dragon »

So you are looking for the left image? I understood it that you wanted a realistic spread instead of the square spread DX uses. If you are looking though for the left image then yes, a linear random value is correct.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

I pretty much said exactly what I was looking for in my last post. I'm looking for a system where the angle of fire from center-aim is flatly distributed. I have that system, and the end result is similar to the left-hand image, but with corrections, minor at low angles and major at high angles, due to the fact that angle from center-aim and distance of the bullet hole from the center of the target do not vary from each other linearly (being off by 1 extra degree changes the distance from center more when you're at a higher angle from center to begin with; the difference between 1 and 2 degrees results in a lesser distance-from-center on the target than the difference in distance-from-center between 21 and 22 degrees, and the difference between 79.999 degrees and 89.999 degrees results in an extremely large difference in distance-from-center on the target, for obvious reasons; the distance from the target's center increases asymptotically with angle up to infinity at 90 degrees, so the increase isn't linear, it's in proportion to the tangent I believe).


Back to the main topic: Does anyone know of a function in DeusEx.u (or better, specifically in DeusExPlayer) that runs when you start the game? I don't mean starting a new game, I mean starting the game up. My automatic FoV adjustment works fine enough, but not until you either click "new game" or actually load one. It's fine in actual gameplay, but not when you first start it up and are looking at the intro logos, and possibly the loading screen and credits.

I also have no idea what to do about the EMP Shield augmentation. Does anyone actually use this? It seems so useless to me that I have no idea if I can salvage it. I don't really want to go so far as to remove and add augmentations, but EMP Shield is a giant sore thumb sticking out of the game as far as balance is concerned. Even if I switch up the slots and make it the alternative to something else, there's nothing in the game I would give up in order to take EMP Shield, so... I'm at a loss. I would have it protect against electrical damage, but Energy Shield already does that. Hell, I'd fold it into Energy Shield in general, but that would require me to replace it with a new aug. Any ideas?
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by DDL »

For things called automatically at startup, that are in deusexplayer, you could maybe try possess(), since it looks (from my log files at least) like that gets called even on entry to dx.dx and the like.

Regarding the EMP shield, I agree it's tricky. If you were up against a lot of robots, or auged opponents, it would almost be worth it..but neither of these things happen in vanilla DX (hell, auged opponents aren't even really emp-sensitive, though it does apparently stop them cloaking for a while). Plus against bots you're rarely going to going gung-ho into the middle of the bastards and catching EMP splash damage, because that would be suicide without augBallistic..which you turned down in favour of EMP shield. :P

I personally went down the route of making it more useful by adding EMP-related effects to NPCs that could realistically be considered EMP sensitive (MJ12 commandos etc) and just making EMP damage more deleterious to the player, but that's hardly ideal.

(and mind you, augAqualung still gets my vote for most useless aug ever)

Folding into energyshield is..tempting, but energyshield is a trifle OP already, if you ask me. "O hai mr plasmagun! I stands here in front of you waving and being unconcerned, k?"

What about making it passive? That way it's something that players don't need to think about, but that might still be a nice thing to have just on spec. I mean, it'd still be shit, but energy-drain free, always on, shit.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

DDL wrote:Folding into energyshield is..tempting, but energyshield is a trifle OP already, if you ask me. "O hai mr plasmagun! I stands here in front of you waving and being unconcerned, k?"
Did you know that Energy Shield protects against explosions? Seriously. Unless I made a grave error reading the code, it protects against the "Exploded" damage type. Don't ask me why, since if anything, that's more Ballistic Protection's territory.

I think at max level, Energy Shield protects you against 80% of damage... so yeah, it's pretty damn nice against plasma guns and flamethrowers and such, but energy attacks aren't super-common and it doesn't quite make you immune anyway.
What about making it passive? That way it's something that players don't need to think about, but that might still be a nice thing to have just on spec. I mean, it'd still be shit, but energy-drain free, always on, shit.
Not a bad idea. That makes sense, and is easy enough to justify in the flavor too (it makes sense for that kind of shielding to be permanent). If it's free, then it's still not good, but isn't quite as bad a choice if you don't see yourself really using the alternative. The problem here is that the alternative is useful to pretty every single playthrough. I could switch it around and maybe change the subdermal aug canisters from cloak/radar, ballistic/EMP to cloak/EMP, radar/ballistic or radar/EMP, cloak/ballistic, but I'm not sure either of those is any better. I can see people taking a passive EMP shielding aug over a stealth boost, but would people take a stealth boost over ballistic protection? I suppose they might. I certainly would in certain stealth games. It would also let people specialize a lot more between stealth and combat, which I suppose probably isn't a bad thing. The problem with that is that I think I'd have to add scripting to every map's mission script that would change what augs are available in the canisters when the map first loads... a bit annoying, but that's the game's fault for associating competing augs like that without actually supporting it in the codebase.

I could also give it complete immunity at level 4, but it seems like the game tries to avoid giving the player 100% immunity to anything, so maybe not. I suppose 90% is enough.

Of course, if it's passive, I would probably need to have it automatically turn on whenever it isn't on... unless there's a way to remove it from the aug display entirely.

I'm still trying to think of other effects it could have, but nothing really makes sense to me.


EDIT: Wait, if an aug is always active (like the IFF), I don't think it's drawn to the HUD at all. Success!

Edit 2: Wait, what the hell? AugEMP.uc doesn't even have a level value defined for the last level. Nor does AugStealth (Run Silent). And Augmentation.uc doesn't have a default value for those variables. Now I'm confused.

Edit 3: Okay, looks like unassigned variables get initialized to 0, I guess. So Run Silent at max level makes you completely silent, and EMP Shield at max level already makes you completely immune. Also, EMP Shield seems to work nonproblematically as always-on, so it's going in the next version.
Last edited by G-Flex on Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by DDL »

If you want to make it even better, have it recover energy from emp attacks... :P
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

Shifter has it do that when it's at max level and you boost it with Synthetic Heart. I'm not sure it's a great idea, since it would turn any constant EMP source (damaged power boxes, certain enemies?) into free, permanent energy sources.


I'm also trying to figure out how to possibly improve the light amp (vision aug, tech goggles), since it basically just washes everything green. It's been discussed before, and apparently there's no good way to do it. I tried having the vision aug set the entire screen green and also change the render mode to unlit, but that looks bad especially because it makes it far too obvious how blocky the world is, especially the sky and other level boundaries.

If there's some way in scripting or the console to set how much lighting matters to the rendering engine, that would be great, or how much ambient lighting there is. Obviously I wouldn't want to mess with the actual ambient lighting in the level, because that affects NPCs too!

Hilariously, DX's light amp implementation (by drawing a solid texture over the screen with the "modulated" style) actually makes textures darker if they aren't bright enough. Changing it to a solid white color works better, but doesn't look quite as cool, and still has the problem of lost detail in dark areas.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Marcelo »

There is a few interesting things in Hardcore that could be added in this fan patch. But they do need permission or might be a bit too trivial.

-Zooming scopes for the weapons and binoculars.
-Things like the Hazmat suit and thermoptic camo are equipped automatically and are consumed upon usage instead than over time. It makes it much more fun and practical since they don't consume space in your inventory.

There's other additions I would like to see combined in a mod but they might be too trivial to get implemented but still my favorite:

-The hiding in shadows add on in thief dx were you become invisible in darker parts on the map. Compensated by bigger field of view of the AI.
-Some of the goodies in unreal rev mod like the animations for going up/down the stairs and the take downs but instead of making them like in HR. You can make the animations with the crowbar or riot prod.

Again these additions might be to trivial to implement but I personally find them fun to see them in the vanilla campaing.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

Marcelo wrote:-Zooming scopes for the weapons and binoculars.
I've heard of people doing this, but I'm not sure. I'll consider it at some point, though.
-Things like the Hazmat suit and thermoptic camo are equipped automatically and are consumed upon usage instead than over time. It makes it much more fun and practical since they don't consume space in your inventory.
I'm not sure how you mean. In my mod, I go the Shifter approach of letting you turn off chargeable items and save the remaining charge for later... I'm not sure what Hardcore does. How do you reduce the charge on something like camo if not by time, and what do you mean by "equipped automatically"?
-The hiding in shadows add on in thief dx were you become invisible in darker parts on the map. Compensated by bigger field of view of the AI.
Not sure what's different between that and the game as it is. I know that lighting already affects how much NPCs can see you (at least I'm pretty sure it does).
-Some of the goodies in unreal rev mod like the animations for going up/down the stairs and the take downs but instead of making them like in HR. You can make the animations with the crowbar or riot prod.
What is "unreal rev mod"? I haven't heard of that, otherwise I'd look those things up to try and see what you mean.
Again these additions might be to trivial to implement but I personally find them fun to see them in the vanilla campaing.
Most of them wouldn't be trivial to implement. I'm pretty sure that zooming scopes/binoculars would require another player class entirely (but don't quote me on that), I'm not sure what you mean by some of the others, and animations are almost certainly a big "no". Making new animations is apparently a huge hassle in Deus Ex, it's not really my thing, and I have no idea how I'd implement those changes anyway.

Edit: I figured out what the Unreal Revolution mod is. I watched the trailer, and while the takedown animations aren't really new animations... I don't think they're necessary at all. Consider the fact that Unreal Revolution is basically a parody... yeah. I didn't see any stair animations, but again, I just watched the trailer.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by DDL »

Possibly the stair-climb anims are simply the 'thwack' anims for crowbar/baton, minus the actual weapon, and using the default mesh and a mirrored mesh alternately to be each arm.

Haven't played, am guessing.

:)

Also, visibility in DX is....quite messy. Yes, darkness plays a part, but only below a certain threshold. As far as my admittedly non-comprehensive tests have revealed, you have your "playervisibility", which handles cloak/adaptivearmor/etc, and AICanSee(), which handles the actual visibility.

AICanSee has a lot of optional vars:

optional float visibility
optional bool bCheckVisibility
optional bool bCheckDir
optional bool bCheckCylinder
optional bool bCheckLOS

The first is what playervisibility returns, so if cloaked, it's 0.0, which applies a multiplier of 0.0 to the result, i.e. you're invisible. This defaults to 1, and acts as a way of modulating relative visibility. It will also accept values greater than 1, so if you wanted something to be really obvious, you could set this to 2 or more.

bCheckVis means light counts. If this is false, it doesn't matter if it's dark or not, the AI doesn't care.
bCheckDir means whether pawns should actually care about direction: i.e. if this is false, it matters not whether you're behind them, in front of them, above them, whatever, if you're visible in principle, you're visible.

bCheckCyl I think means do a few additional limited (cylinder-based) checks for vis: not just "can I see the centre of the target" but "can I see the top or bottom of the target, or the edge"

bCheckLOS means vis cone. In essence, pawns by default return 1.0 for this (all else being equal) if you're in their forward 90deg arc (45deg to either side). As you approach the edges of their entire forward arc, i.e. 90deg to either side, it gradually returns lower numbers. Haven't tested it enough, so I don't know if it's linear or trigonometric. I suspect the latter, personally. This obviously requires bCheckDir to be true, too.




ANYWAY.

The problem is that most (if not all) calls in DX essentially ask this function "is the resultant value greater than 0?", so it doesn't really matter, in the end, if visibility is 0.234 due to darkness, coz it's still greater than zero, hence: visible.

And trust me, messing with this stuff can get complicated as fuck, very quickly.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Marcelo »

Yes I think Cesky mentioned something like a combination of elements to make the animations. You have to click the stairs to trigger the movement so maybe it has something to do with it. Thanks for replying my post G-flex and yes, in hardcore dx you equip those items automatically except the goggles which you can activate and deactivate. The rest appear below the augs and are used when needed. For example you get the hazzmat suit and it automatically appears below the augs full but it does not appear on your inventory. If you pass by a toxic area then the hazzmat starts to deplete. The same thing with the re-breather which starts to deplete automatically when you go underwater and the armor as well.

The AI in hardcore DX specially in unrealistic is very different from the Vanilla. the AI can see you from a mile! And not only that. If you shoot in the first floor of the statue and run away, you will end up with 10 terrorist in a minute in the spot where you were standing. DLL is very right to say that dealing with the line of sight is messy because even if it's fun there's something not quite right about the AI. And you definitely can't finish in non-lethal way. If there's a possibility to combine a bigger line of sight for the AI with the convenience of hiding in shadows that would be awesome.

The stairs animation in unreal rev makes the gameplay feel very fluid and the take-downs too. you can still do it the old way but is fun. It seems there's a problem with saving the game.

G-Flex I think you should really try to play these mods. I'm sure you will find some of their ideas interesting and will give you a better perspective of what to implement. You can also try the new 2027. This mod has a great looting system that lets you choose the items you want and the gameplay system feels pretty solid specially the shootings. I'm not sure if is the sounds or the recoil style that makes it feel so solid or a combination of both that makes it so good but it really is.

sorry for my bad english.
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

DDL wrote:The problem is that most (if not all) calls in DX essentially ask this function "is the resultant value greater than 0?", so it doesn't really matter, in the end, if visibility is 0.234 due to darkness, coz it's still greater than zero, hence: visible.
The checks I recall seeing are for >0.1 or something, not >0, but point taken.
Marcelo wrote:Yes I think Cesky mentioned something like a combination of elements to make the animations. You have to click the stairs to trigger the movement so maybe it has something to do with it. Thanks for replying my post G-flex and yes, in hardcore dx you equip those items automatically except the goggles which you can activate and deactivate. The rest appear below the augs and are used when needed. For example you get the hazzmat suit and it automatically appears below the augs full but it does not appear on your inventory. If you pass by a toxic area then the hazzmat starts to deplete. The same thing with the re-breather which starts to deplete automatically when you go underwater and the armor as well.
I'd rather keep this stuff as-is. I'd rather have chargeable items stay in the inventory, and I especially wouldn't like it to be auto-activated... seems too brainless for my taste.

Regarding stairs, I just don't see the need for a stairs animation, especially if it requires you to actually click on the stairs. Walking suffices!
The stairs animation in unreal rev makes the gameplay feel very fluid and the take-downs too. you can still do it the old way but is fun.
You do know that the entire point of Unreal Revolution is to mock those kinds of mechanics in Human Revolution, right? It's all very tongue-in-cheek, and in my opinion doesn't really belong in Deus Ex... certainly not in a (relatively) minimalistic mod like this.

But just to humor the concept, there's no reason for takedown animations in Deus Ex. Sneak-attacks (well, attacking from behind, technically) already do more damage, and the damage depends on location as well. It's a whole lot more fluid, in my opinion, for the mechanics already in place to suit their function well than to add a "sneak kill this dude right now" button that automagically does the work for you.
G-Flex I think you should really try to play these mods. I'm sure you will find some of their ideas interesting and will give you a better perspective of what to implement. You can also try the new 2027. This mod has a great looting system that lets you choose the items you want and the gameplay system feels pretty solid specially the shootings. I'm not sure if is the sounds or the recoil style that makes it feel so solid or a combination of both that makes it so good but it really is.
I tried Hardcore once, and I honestly found it ridiculous. The second I threw the DTS and it pinged around a room like a stubborn popcorn kernel, I ceased being able to take it at all seriously. Hilarious, though.

What's different about recoil in 2027? I've been tooling around with that myself. In my working version, higher recoil affects your accuracy as well, effectively reducing your standing-still bonus with each shot. I'm still not 100% sure I like it; I'll probably alter it a bit before release.
PlausibleSarge
UNATCO
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Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by PlausibleSarge »

G-Flex wrote:
-Things like the Hazmat suit and thermoptic camo are equipped automatically and are consumed upon usage instead than over time. It makes it much more fun and practical since they don't consume space in your inventory.
I'm not sure how you mean. In my mod, I go the Shifter approach of letting you turn off chargeable items and save the remaining charge for later... I'm not sure what Hardcore does. How do you reduce the charge on something like camo if not by time, and what do you mean by "equipped automatically"?
In Biomod, once the user equips armor or a rebreather etc. then they stay at full charge and go down based on a certain percentage of damage absorbed etc (which is also determined by your environmental training skill) and will either deplete on their own when charge is used up, or can be turned off by the user for later.

Thermaptic Camo is the exception, as it has no real "triggers" as it is always haging an effect. The only change biomod makes to this is that it lasts a little bit longer and can be turned off at will.

I think the idea of automatic equipping goes against the spirit of deus ex, but thats just me.
G-Flex wrote:
-The hiding in shadows add on in thief dx were you become invisible in darker parts on the map. Compensated by bigger field of view of the AI.
Not sure what's different between that and the game as it is. I know that lighting already affects how much NPCs can see you (at least I'm pretty sure it does).
IIRC, the games AI can still see you in dark as its based on just LoS rather than LoS + Light Levels [citation needed]. The Thievery Mutator adds in the light levels to the visbility system, as well as adding a light-gem ala the Thief games.
G-Flex wrote:
-Some of the goodies in unreal rev mod like the animations for going up/down the stairs and the take downs but instead of making them like in HR. You can make the animations with the crowbar or riot prod.
What is "unreal rev mod"? I haven't heard of that, otherwise I'd look those things up to try and see what you mean.
Deus Ex: Unreal Revolution also contains a download link. You should download it, its a very good mod, aswell as making you more able to see these animations.
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