Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

A refuge for those migrating from the fallen DXEditing.com and a place for general discussion relating to Deus Ex editing (coding, mapping, etc).
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

medzernik wrote:GMDX fixed this with their goddamn annoying checkpoint system.
[-X

It's optional, you chose to play with it :P
Just look at it as a more forgiving version of Xcom's Iron Man mode. It wasn't just for preventing hacking abuse, it was to prevent abuse of
everything and enforce choice and consequence.

If you would like to discuss this, or my mod further, then join me in my thread. I'll put the kettle on.
I say just in case to avoid mod conflict here.

Also I agree with the people that are saying lockpick/tech skill costs need to be lowered. Nobody in their right minds would take those skills to master vanilla.
G-Flex
Silhouette
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:16 pm

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

Tinter wrote:Electronics & Lockpicking: The pricing vs utility of these skills is totally wrong. AFAIK, the vast majority of players take these to trained and then thats it; for experienced players, the number of multitools & lockpicks available mean theres no reason to do otherwise, and there is no reason why 6000 for master could possibly be worth it. I see two possible ways of addressing this:
1- rebalance the effectiveness of the skills downwards at each level, as I think some other mods have done. Even just taking 5% from trained would be significant, advanced is probably about right, Master could go up to 90-100% perhaps.
2-Change the costs downwards, heavily. The standard way of doing this would just to make the whole line cheaper, but I think theres a good case for deviating from the pattern of making later upgrades cost more. Weapons upgrades should cost more as you get to higher levels as they give you more in terms of benefits, but here we clearly see reduced returns.
Personally, my preference would be to combine 1 with reducing the costs of advanced and master very heavily- probably to less than 2000 for each. They just give very little benefit.
I don't want to deviate too far from established cost patterns, but I will look at maybe adjusting the numbers, at least.
Computers- runs into the same patterns as above. In particular, Master provides no gameplay benefit beyond making email easier to read for the impatient and a handful of credits. I would probably leave the first two, but upgrading from advanced to master should reasonably cost even less than advanced. Failing that, Master computer badly needs something adding to it to make it a realistic option, maybe +10% EMP resistance ["As an elite hacker, the agent may reroute his internal circuits to resist electrical discharges"?]?
The 10% EMP resistance thing seems really contrived and weird.

However, I see the problem, in that there's basically nothing you can do with Master skill that you can't do with Advanced. That said, I did incorporate Shifter's vending machine bypass thing at Master skill, and increased the hacking timeout for Advanced and Master, especially Master.

It's worth noting that apparently user accounts in computers have their own sort of "skill level" that override's the players if the player's is lower, but I think the only existent effect of this is allowing user accounts access to things like turret controls, which you'd need Advanced skill for if hacking.
Medicine- its too expensive, especially given Regeneration exists. The higher levels provide explicitly less benefit at greater cost. It would be neat if the toxin resistance could be modelled by some low level of environmental resistance? Or just increase the boost it gives medkits at higher levels? But mostly, make it cheaper.
Medicine could also possibly scale the gains from bioelectric cells in addition to medical kits, but I'm not sure.

I've also been considering the idea of limiting repair/medical bot use on higher difficulties, which would make medicine more useful sometimes.
Athletics- Has the opposite problem, its a passive skill of use 100% of the time, even at the increased price its still perhaps a little cheap. However, with your nerfs to starting JC, I think increasing the cost of the first level would be unfair, but a slight cost increase for later levels isn't unreasonable.
Maybe. I'll think about it.
Essentially, I think the balance in costs for all the non-combat skills is totally wrong, and I think abandoning the traditional experience cost chains is the easiest way to fix it. I don't expect it to be a widely agreed with opinion, though.
You might be right about this, but it's beyond the scope of this mod, in my opinion, to make such a drastic change.
medzernik
NSF
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:37 am
Location: Slovakia

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by medzernik »

Cybernetic pig wrote:
medzernik wrote:GMDX fixed this with their goddamn annoying checkpoint system.
[-X

It's optional, you chose to play with it :P
Just look at it as a more forgiving version of Xcom's Iron Man mode. It wasn't just for preventing hacking abuse, it was to prevent abuse of
everything and enforce choice and consequence.

If you would like to discuss this, or my mod further, then join me in my thread. I'll put the kettle on.
I say just in case to avoid mod conflict here.

Also I agree with the people that are saying lockpick/tech skill costs need to be lowered. Nobody in their right minds would take those skills to master vanilla.
Yeah, since I played Hardcore mode there, every game is sooo easy now.
User avatar
Baldur
Thug
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:46 pm

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Baldur »

Hi G-Flex

Just a suggestion, why don't you upload the patch and all the details about the development at nexusmods.

http://www.nexusmods.com/deusex/mods/categories/?

It'll significantly help in delivering more audience for the patch and creative inputs from more fans
G-Flex
Silhouette
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:16 pm

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by G-Flex »

That site doesn't seem particularly well-organized. I see two files under Deus Ex, and they aren't even for the same game. At any rate, I'll worry about where to upload things after the mod's done, but thanks for the suggestion.
Tinter
Mole Person
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:01 am

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Tinter »

Your response was about what I expected, and I don't really think your wrong to limit the scope of your mod. Still, yes, I think the smaller changes you talked about, or at least some point cost changes, would probably be in scope and desirable.
rdaneel
Thug
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by rdaneel »

G-Flex... the $64,000,000 question... will a newer moar completer version of Renovation be available in time for the launch of Revision on May 12th? I certainly am excited to maybe get my first Revised play through also to be Renovated as well... knowing how much hard and awesome work you have been putting into this patch. Any tantalizing hints or updates much appreciated and thank you for what you're doing here.
User avatar
kocmo
Thug
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:51 am

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by kocmo »

rdaneel wrote:G-Flex... the $64,000,000 question... will a newer moar completer version of Renovation be available in time for the launch of Revision on May 12th? I certainly am excited to maybe get my first Revised play through also to be Renovated as well... knowing how much hard and awesome work you have been putting into this patch. Any tantalizing hints or updates much appreciated and thank you for what you're doing here.
Rdaneel, Revision 1.0 may not be compatible with Human Renovation. However, I will create an adaptation allowing to use Human Renovation (and optionally Shifter/BioMod/Smoke's) with Revision 1.0 in unifiedDeusEx, by/before summer.
Marcelo
NSF
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:31 pm

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by Marcelo »

This sounds amazing kocmo. I would really like to play my favorite mods together. :)
rdaneel
Thug
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:25 pm

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by rdaneel »

Kocmo, thanks for the info - I was not aware of Unified until you mentioned it in your post. I'm not sure how it works just yet and how it relates to Revision/Renovation...

You are suggesting that Revision *might not* be compatible with Renovation (assume you mean HR ver 1.3) - not sure why that would be but I can think of a few reasons maybe. Pretty much what I'm trying to figure out is how do I get working: Revision+New Vision+HDTP+Renovation. Revision will be packaged with New Vision and HDTP included (THANK YOU guys for the partnership!) So the only question is would there be some reason that Renovation would break in conjunction with Revision. Based on my limited understanding of such things, I would have thought these would be naturally compatible which is why my original question directed at G-Flex was whether a newer version beyond 1.3 incorporating the Pastebin fixes might be available in time for a playthrough with Revision 1.0.

Now though I'm also trying to figure out how does Unified figure into this... it's like a mod that allows you to selectively merge features from various popular mods? And it is definitely compatible with Revision?

If so, then wow! That is awesome!
User avatar
kocmo
Thug
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:51 am

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by kocmo »

rdaneel wrote:Kocmo, thanks for the info - I was not aware of Unified until you mentioned it in your post. I'm not sure how it works just yet and how it relates to Revision/Renovation...You are suggesting that Revision *might not* be compatible with Renovation (assume you mean HR ver 1.3) - not sure why that would be but I can think of a few reasons maybe. Pretty much what I'm trying to figure out is how do I get working: Revision+New Vision+HDTP+Renovation. Revision will be packaged with New Vision and HDTP included (THANK YOU guys for the partnership!) So the only question is would there be some reason that Renovation would break in conjunction with Revision. Based on my limited understanding of such things, I would have thought these would be naturally compatible which is why my original question directed at G-Flex was whether a newer version beyond 1.3 incorporating the Pastebin fixes might be available in time for a playthrough with Revision 1.0.

Now though I'm also trying to figure out how does Unified figure into this... it's like a mod that allows you to selectively merge features from various popular mods? And it is definitely compatible with Revision?

If so, then wow! That is awesome!
unifiedDeusEx is an attempt to allow players to play stock Deus Ex, Revision, or Zodiac campaign with consistently good-looking high-resolution UI, while allowing to choose some [or none] of gameplay-changing options like vanilla, latest Shifter, or BioMod. unifiedDeusEx is compatible w/ Revision demo v1.3.1, and we will fully support Revision 1.0, once it ships. We will also be adding support to other campaign mods (TNM, 2027, Nihilum, Terminus Machina) and will incorporate Smoke's Mod (in the same modular fashion) and Human Renovation. Stay posted :-)

The reason why Revision 1.0 may not be compatible with Human Renovation is that Revision will include HTDP, which provides its own DeusEx.u, hence the conflict. However, I cannot speak on behalf of Revision team, so perhaps you should ask them directly for a more definitive statement :-)
User avatar
bjorn98009_91
Silhouette
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 8:17 am
Location: Hufvudstaden, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by bjorn98009_91 »

Revision will be compatible with Human Renovation and all other gameplay mods that modifies DeusEx.u. However at launch only Shifter, Biomod and HDTP will be compatible with the new 2x scaled UI. HDTP will also be enabled with Shifter/Biomod since those mods have their own logic for using HDTP assets.
Producer and Quality Assurance Manager for Deus Ex: Revision.
User avatar
bjorn98009_91
Silhouette
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 8:17 am
Location: Hufvudstaden, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by bjorn98009_91 »

It was a while since I used this mod, but does it fix the bug in DeusEx.u that makes lamps that have bOn=True by default not being lit up?

Edit: Also, does HuRen fix AugTargeting displaying bHidden=True objects?
Producer and Quality Assurance Manager for Deus Ex: Revision.
User avatar
kocmo
Thug
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:51 am

Workaround for Engine.Mover.Makegroupstop Infinite Recursion

Post by kocmo »

I have created an UnrealScript "fix" for the infamous issue Engine.Mover.Makegroupstop or DeusEx.DeusExMover.Makegroupstop "Infinite script recursion (250 calls)". The problem is caused by two movers having the same name. When processing a linked list containing both, function MakeGroupStop() goes into infinite recursion, and the game crashes with aforementioned message. I have artificially limited recursion depth to 200 (thus giving a slack of 50 parent calls before entering MakeGroupStop), before stopping. This does not affect deletion of movers, so I consider it to be a safe workaround. It will pop up a warning message, and also log it to the logfile.

Code: Select all

--- Engine/Classes.stock/Mover.uc	2014-04-23 20:17:00.000000000 -0700
+++ Engine/Classes/Mover.uc	2014-04-23 20:13:30.248433700 -0700
@@ -557,13 +557,32 @@
 
 function MakeGroupStop()
 {
+	MakeGroupStopHelper(0);
+}
+
+function MakeGroupStopNotify(String notifyMsg) {
+	BroadcastMessage(notifyMsg);
+}
+
+function MakeGroupStopHelper(int recursionDepth)
+{
+	local String notifyMsg;
+
 	// Stop moving immediately.
 	bInterpolating = false;
 	AmbientSound = None;
 	GotoState( , '' );
 
-	if ( Follower != None )
-		Follower.MakeGroupStop();
+	if ( Follower != None ) {
+		// kocmo: fixing the bug "BreakableWall1 (function Engine.Mover.Makegroupstop:0000) Infinite script recursion (250 calls)"
+		if (recursionDepth >= 200) {
+			notifyMsg = "** WARNING - Prevented infinite recursion in Engine.Mover.MakeGroupStop() for "$name$"!";
+			log(notifyMsg);
+			MakeGroupStopNotify(notifyMsg);
+			return;
+		}
+		Follower.MakeGroupStopHelper(recursionDepth + 1);
+	}
 }
 
 function MakeGroupReturn()
Or you can download updated Engine.u. Don't overwrite your DeusEx\System\Engine.u with this one, rather put it into some directory and add that directory to load paths.

Now, why did I decide to fix it in Engine.u instead of DeusEx.u? I realize that using a custom Engine.u is not recommended, and you can practically kiss multiplayer good-bye with it. While a few descendants of Engine.Mover do live in DeusEx.u, there are other descendants from other mods (Z_CaroneElevator in Zodiac, probably something else in Nihilum, etc), which don't. Thus, targeting for the broadest possible compatibility. Of course, you're welcome to apply this fix to the Mover descendants inside DeusEx.u instead. Also, look at the bright side: while a lot of mods ship customized DeusEx.u, no one ships their own Engine.u :-); you won't have to worry about conflicts.

Also, be aware that this is not a true fix, merely a workaround to allow player to continue playing. Mappers are still expected to detect identically-named movers in their maps and rename/replace them.
Last edited by kocmo on Thu Apr 24, 2014 3:22 am, edited 7 times in total.
User avatar
kocmo
Thug
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:51 am

Re: Deus Ex: Human Renovation (fan patch/mod)

Post by kocmo »

I have also posted a few HDTP-related bugs (with proposed bugfixes included) at Shifter list of open issues.

Fix for HDTP books being rendered in solid grey/red/blue
Fix for hugely oversized decals (bullet holes, burn and scorch mars, blood splats and pools, etc.), when using Shifter with HDTP

Perhaps those of you developing Shifter-derived mods, or merely using Shifter Facelift() infrastructure for dynamic loading of HDTP assets, might find those useful.
Post Reply