Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

A refuge for those migrating from the fallen DXEditing.com and a place for general discussion relating to Deus Ex editing (coding, mapping, etc).
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SilverSpook
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by SilverSpook »

Got a weird problem here with Kentie's Launcher. I have a custom installer that Bjorn helped put together for Terminus Machina. It installs ok, but it seems like the Kentie's exe version of TM isn't recognizing the User.ini for TM (TerminusUser.ini). I tried switching off the compass, the object belt, the hit display, and setting "bAskedToTrain" to false in the TerminusUser.ini and all of the HUD components are still visible, and I don't get asked to train.

So I tried turning the HUD off in the "User.ini" file as well and Kentie's exe still doesn't recognize any changes.

If I switch the .exe to Hanflings.exe for TM, then all of the TerminusUser.ini changes get recognize and the HUD isn't visible.

Is Kentie's supposed to use the .ini file or are the User.ini variables being set somewhere else when you use Kentie's?
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ggrotz
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by ggrotz »

SilverSpook wrote: C:\Program Files\DeusEx\System\sstm.exe INI="C:\Program Files\DeusEx\System\Terminus.ini" USERINI="C:\Program Files\DeusEx\System\TerminusUser.ini" -h4x0r

And it keeps turning into just:

C:\Program Files\DeusEx\System\sstm.exe INI=
FWIW, the way you have the command is on the wierd side compared to what is usually done. Below is what my launcher invokes for Terminus Machina

Code: Select all

Init: Command line: -hax0r INI="D:\DeusEx\Terminus\System\Terminus.ini" USERINI="D:\DeusEx\Terminus\System\TerminusUser.ini" ABSLOG="D:\DeusEx\Terminus\System\Terminus.log"
From what I remember about Kentie's Launcher, it may be looking for parms in specific places. But putting -hax0r first helps tremendously in any case.
SilverSpook wrote:Got a weird problem here with Kentie's Launcher. I have a custom installer that Bjorn helped put together for Terminus Machina. It installs ok, but it seems like the Kentie's exe version of TM isn't recognizing the User.ini for TM (TerminusUser.ini). I tried switching off the compass, the object belt, the hit display, and setting "bAskedToTrain" to false in the TerminusUser.ini and all of the HUD components are still visible, and I don't get asked to train.
Kentie's Launcher throws INIs to the "My Documents" folder by default. Are you checking there to make your changes?
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SilverSpook
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by SilverSpook »

Oh, son of a bitch. Yeah, that must be what's going on. Thanks!
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ggrotz
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by ggrotz »

Since I don't see it, another annoyance I ran into: When I try to use the knife, it occasionally gets thrown away. The only thing I've pulled it on is dogs, but it's still a huge annoyance.
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by SilverSpook »

Ah, yeah that was supposed to be another balancing adjustment to make the benefits of upping the melee skill more significant.

So if you don't invest in melee then you occasionally drop your weapon when attacking.

Probably should've made that more clear that it's intentional. If it gets really annoying to a lot of people I'll consider removing it.
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by bjorn98009_91 »

I didn't consider that. That's the main problem with Kentie's, why should it go around messing with the My Documents folder? I'm sure it was a feature for users that doesn't have write permissions in their DX folder, but who the hell does that apply to? Who doesn't have write permissions in their DX folder? People running as a Limited User? In that case I think that using My Documents should be Opt In instead.

I could just have the installer add "-localdata" to the shortcut. Problem with that is that it won't work for Steam users. Windows doesn't support paths longer than 256 characters, and adding the Steam path to both the .exe, Ini and UserIni really only leaves one character left. I should have the installer set up a NTFS junction point for that ;)
Last edited by bjorn98009_91 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by ggrotz »

bjorn98009_91 wrote:That's the main problem with Kentie's, why should it go around messing with the My Documents folder? I'm sure it was a feature for users that doesn't have write permissions in their DX folder, but who the hell does that apply to?
Why doesn't have write permissions in their DX folder? People running as a Limited User? Then I think that using My Documents should be Opt In instead.
That's how I have my launcher written (as opt-in). From what I can tell on the bug reports I get, Windows from Vista onwards enforces a certain set of security restrictions by default and is hard-wired to not be changed (except in some cases by security privilege elevation). For instance, what I'm noticing is that programs are not allowed to have write-permission to \Program Files no matter what (I don't know about the rest of the drive, installing DX outside of \Program Files might solve this by itself - *). These things existed in XP (as the limited user, by default ALL users are limited in Vista onwards), but were not rigidly enforced. Now they are.

The net effect of these changes is that it forces app developers into a rigid course on what they can and can not do with their programs. Like I explained over in the launcher thread, the Microsoft-approved solution is to only put program data in the program folder (basically read-only stuff), put global app specific write data in "\Documents and Settings\<user name>\Application Data\DXLoader" (there's functions that return all these different folder locations, there's three or four of specific concern) and put user-specific data into "My Documents". Of course, like I explained on the loader thread, the issue becomes putting the file there and the user being able to find it, so a simple two file app immediately becomes much more complex for giving the user ease to edit the file and requires an installer on top of that.

Of course, with an app like Deus Ex, the problem you run into is that you have to make an app designed with Windows 98/ME in mind work around all these restrictions. That means saving the saved games elsewhere and putting all the config files elsewhere, along with some DLL injection hacks. "My Documents" is the easiest, so that's the way things have gone.

It's completely stupid like you point out, to be honest, but that's what Microsoft has forced app developers into if you want to be completely and fully compatible/working with modern versions of Windows today. It quadruples the workload on the developer for stupid things, unfortunately, but that's where the game lies today.

(*) - I run Windows XP so I don't have personal experience/knowledge on why people are reporting what they are. I just know, as explained in the other thread, that the app can't be simple in order to be "Vista/Seven/Eight compatible", so there's got to be a ton much more work to do in testing on such platforms to make it fully "compatible by Microsoft standards".
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by ggrotz »

Another question (out of many): I've picked up a magnetron out of a microwave oven. I don't see it listed in the menu of stuff that you can make...what do you do with it? Also, where might I find Red Bacteria? For that matter, I combine food with the biolab and get petri dishes, but what do you do with them from there?
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by G-Flex »

bjorn98009_91 wrote:I didn't consider that. That's the main problem with Kentie's, why should it go around messing with the My Documents folder? I'm sure it was a feature for users that doesn't have write permissions in their DX folder, but who the hell does that apply to? Who doesn't have write permissions in their DX folder?
Literally anyone running Vista/7 who installs Deus Ex into their Program Files directory or another non-user directory. Also, presumably the idea is to make it user-specific.
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by bjorn98009_91 »

How come that running with the vanilla launcher offers no problems what-so-ever? At least I've never heard of anyone complaining of access issues.


Also, I think multi-user support is unneeded. Typically only one user per computer runs the game and if two persons or more were to share they could probably manage with just having two saved games. If you want to get really fancy you could copy the DeusEx.ini to another location, make a shortcut to use the new file and then have a different SavePath in the new DeusEx.ini (granted, Kentie would be more user friendly in this respect). Good intentions aside I think it creates a lot of issues for developers that gets weird problems. Opt in would be better for people that have access issues/want multi user setup.
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by ggrotz »

bjorn98009_91 wrote:How come that running with the vanilla launcher offers no problems what-so-ever? At least I've never heard of anyone complaining of access issues.
This is a good question, actually. In reading this, I've thought about trying a virgin DX install, putting it under \Program Files and running it as a Limited User under XP to see what happens. But I understand XP may be totally different than Vista and onwards anyway, so it might not matter.

But it gets me curious enough to ask something: Do most people running Vista or Seven go straight on and get Kentie's EXE and call it done? Has anyone tried DX on Vista/Seven under \Program Files using the vanilla launcher (i.e. not Kentie, Hanfling or Steam's EXE - I understand they've all been rewritten in ways)? I'm wondering if most people who have the regular DX game just drop Kentie's EXE in right away without a second thought...
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by SilverSpook »

ggrotz wrote:Another question (out of many): I've picked up a magnetron out of a microwave oven. I don't see it listed in the menu of stuff that you can make...what do you do with it? Also, where might I find Red Bacteria? For that matter, I combine food with the biolab and get petri dishes, but what do you do with them from there?
The magnetron is combined with a few other items to make the EMP rifle. The recipe for the EMP rifle should be in one of the gram chips scattered throughout the game. The petri culture can be used with the biolab to cultivate copies of biological agents (like fasfood). If you want the actual recipes look at this spoiler:

EMP rifle = magnetron + copper wire + ultracapacitor

extra fas food = Petri culture + fas food + biolab

The red bacteria is found near fires (it is supposed to be fire-resistant) in one of the apartments. It's kind of like the strange glowing moss but orange, and is stuck to the ground.
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by ggrotz »

SilverSpook wrote:The recipe for the EMP rifle should be in one of the gram chips scattered throughout the game.
It might be, but it might be blocked out by a bug, too. I remember picking up and using one gram chip and saw something (specifically "Herbal Remedy") pop up, but didn't find it specified on my recipe list. It seems your string management or whatever it is is flawed somehow on that one. I can double-check, though, from an old saved game. Where would I find the gram chip with this one?
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by SilverSpook »

I'm not sure where exactly, I'll have to go and double check to see if the chips are giving recipes correctly.
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Re: Terminus Machina - A DX Mod

Post by SilverSpook »

I've recently received a sudden but not unwelcome influx of offers to help with development of additional levels and other content for Terminus Machina. As the stipulations for my Terminus Machina ultimatum seem to have been met -- help with creating levels and textures -- I'm going to reopen talks on Terminus development. The most likely candidate "City" for the next TM area is a dystopic, run-down version of Hong Kong.

If anyone else is interested in joining the Terminus dev team please post here, message me on Moddb, or send a hummingbird drone to my safe house in the Ecuadorian Embassy in Moscow.
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