The Human revolution thread, now with 233213% more spoilers

[Jonas]

I'm sorry, but is this still Deus Ex we're talking about? This sounds absolutely retarded, if you ask me.

And yeah, yeah, nobody asked me. Back to lurking...

Really? Read that again, then think about Deus Ex 1. Fighting transgenetic creatures in Area 51 to stop an old billionaire in a tank merging with an artificial intelligence and taking over the world? Human Revolution does very nearly jump the shark in the final level, but Deus Ex 1 had a substiantially greater amount of "retardedness" thoughout, in my opinion.

[Moonbo]

Yes but you have to admit the way the ending stuff was introduced was a little better handled in DX1. Hyron, the Minority Report girls, the motivations of Zhao and even Darrow, all came way out of left field starting with the final mission. There was little foreshadowing or hints of any of that beforehand. With DX, at least you had discussions of computers and control, you met (and were continuously fighting against) the archvillian from the midway point of the game, you met Daedalus/Icarus and you generally knew what they were aiming to do. With DXHR, it was all just sort of thrown at you at the end. You can have a lot of "weirdness" in a game, I mean look at TNM, but as long as you set it up properly people will go along with it. Here...I'm not sure DXHR did a good enough job.

Oh, and DXHR is a great game that everyone should play .

-Gelo

[WildcatPhoenix]

I can't say for sure because I haven't played Human Revolution, so I guess that pretty much invalidates my opinion right there.

But when I hear talk of Japanese schoolgirls crying how "they wanna go home" (in a cutscene, naturally) and some kind of computer that needs human bodies to operate (???), with zombies (I mean, seriously? fuckin' zombies? in Deus Ex?) crawling all around...

....doesn't exactly stoke the flames of anticipation, if you know what I mean.

I'll admit, the last couple of missions in the original Deus Ex are the weakest. I love them, but they aren't the highlight of the game. Yes, Bob Page sitting in some kind of augmentation chamber with unlimited generating baddies and defensive turrets is very much a standard video game boss battle. Area 51 is probably the most obvious setting for an endmap that could possibly be imagined. Most of the innovative level design and exploration that makes Deus Ex so special is absent in Area 51 (and the missile silo, and even my beloved Ocean Lab).

So my question is, why repeat these mistakes? Why make them even worse? I was watching the fiancee play Final Fantasy (VI? VII? XXXII? Hell, I dunno) yesterday. This boss fight with Zhao sounds like something right in Square Enix's wheelhouse, cutscenes and all.

[EER]

The zombies are not actually zombies of the brain-eating kind, but people who are insane for reasons I will not tell you even in a thread called 'now with 233213% more spoilers'. Mostly because it barely makes sense. Even with all the conflict going on, I fail to understand why Darrow would build that whole thing, just to blow it up in the end.

Also, he is the only one that may manage to escape if you choose the fourth ending (which was my first choice btw, what was yours?)

[Jonas]

I agree with everything Gelo and EER have written.

I can't tell you why EM would repeat the mistakes from DX1, but I can tell you it's pretty hard to create a good climax to a videogame - it has to be a suitable peak to the conflict in the narrative and a decent summary and test of everything the player has learned in terms of the gameplay. It has to be a memorable setpiece, a long hard fight, and perhaps even a decent puzzle. And in a Deus Ex game, it needs to establish and represent all the choices you have for how to end the game. It's a shame DXHR didn't pull it off better than DX1, but it's understandable. Not excusable, but understandable.

EER: I picked the Sarif ending. I didn't think Adam deserved his fate in the fourth ending, I don't trust the Illuminati as far as I can throw them (even without strength augmentations), and Darrow can go fuck himself after what he did. Sarif it is.

[bobby 55]

I've got my doubts about a couple of those Rollers though.

Yeah, EER is on the money about the zombie thing.

Darrow ending, 'cause Jensen in my game isn't sure about the whole enhancement thing.

[Jonas]

Hahah. I know for a fact Gelo picked the Illuminati ending - ask four people, get four different answers; as it should be

[Dragon]

I would say too the Sarif ending is the least fucked up one. Granted none of them are in any way satisfying but the Sarif ending seems to be the one preserving story continuity the most. DX:HR really is missing a Helios type ending which gives the player the feeling he is able to change now the world for the better (if it really is the case or not is up to imagination).

[Jonas]

Are you sure what you mean isn't that you were missing an ending that gave you the feeling you'd be able to change the world for the better? Given that three of the endings do actually involve making a choice in how the world should be changed in one major area (less augmentation regulation, more augmentation regulation, or no augmentations at all), hopefully some people will agree with one of those. None of the endings appear to give you full power to do whatever you want with the world, but I think that's fine - you can make a difference without being able to change everything.

Of course it doesn't matter when it comes down to it, because we all know exactly how the world is going to end up 25 years later regardless of what Adam does.

I think the Sarif ending works all right with the state of the setting in Deus Ex 1, but it seemed to me that the Illuminati ending was a better fit. We know from Deus Ex that mechanically augmented people are heavily regulated, which is the opposite of what the Sarif ending implies. Heavy regulations could also be assumed to slow down the technological development of mechanical augmentations, which might be why excessive augmentation still makes you look like a freak and seems to be largely restricted to military personnel 25 years later. On the other hand it's clear that scientific progress is still going on in 2052, or at least went on until quite recently, and Darrow's anti-technology ending was made to sound like it would put a definite stop to that sort of research.

This is all a matter of personal interpretations though. The ending cinematics are all so vague that you could read whatever the hell you wanted into them. I was hoping they'd focus on what happened to the involved characters instead, since almost none of them appear in DX1 anyway so EM is free to do whatever they want, so I was obviously disappointed in that respect. I didn't give a shit about the global political consequences of Adam's final choice, it all ends up the same way anyway. What I didn't know, and what I still have no idea about, is what happened to Adam Jensen, Frank Pritchard, Faridah Malik, David Sarif, and Hugh Darrow in each case (assuming they're left alive at the end of the game).

Maybe they're saving it for the DLC

[Moonbo]

I actually chose the Darrow ending, but after playing the ending cutscene I felt a little duped. My understanding was that by hitting the Darrow button, the AI would tell the whole truth to the whole world. I picked that because if everyone has the whole picture, then they can make the most informed decision. All the other choices basically involved some form of lying to the public (or killing yourself). I still don't see why that would automatically lead to everyone deciding to ban augmentation research... .

-Gelo

[AEmer]

Darrow ending.

I found HR to be a kindof "the watchmen" ending; I could either undo the natural changes the cataclysm would bring about by blaming something for my own ends, or I could tell the truth.

It was perhaps a mistake to aim for being "The Watchmen" of modern videogames (that comic / movie has the most fantastic ending to anything ever), but I can understand why. That comic is legendary.

To me, the ending of HR makes sense, but I totally get why it feels jarring. Even though Darrow is implemented throughout the ebooks, is pressent in the opening cinematic (but scrambled), is talked about multiple times, and is in sarifs office both in person and as a hologram, it's still much too little to establish him as an antagonist; at least for a traditional videogame.

For whatever reason, it felt right to me this time. I'm not sure I can explain why I thought this worked even though it probably shouldn't, but I can just say that I thought it did.

I chose the darrow ending because, in the end, if you have to build your society on lies and deceit to make it work, it's really not worth it to make it work. You might as well bite the bullet and get it overwith.

People need to learn responsibility the hard way; if our society doesn't, at some point, one will. If the public needs to be controlled for democracy to work, it shouldn't...because at some point, _even though_ the public is fairly informed, it _will_ work.

And I _really_ want human augmentation technology to come around fast =P I feel like I have more of a personal stake in biotech. But the big picture and all that. If the public are retarded enough to decide biotech must go out the window in response to hearing the truth of what had happened, they deserve to live without biotech untill they wise up.

[Dragon]

@Jonas:
That makes sense. It would explain why in DX:HR mechs are the daily norm while in DX they are reserved for special forces including the military. But then we get to the problem of the abilities. Gunther and Anna I guess can be considered top of the notch mechs seeing as they are part of UNATCO and money isn't really a problem there. Yet they seem to have inferior abilities than Jensen or other mechs the game has seen. Given the regulation is in place I have a hard time to figure out how it comes the mechanical augmentation technology fell back that far behind. All due to the "big bang" that happens soon after? If that would be the case both Sarifs and the Illuminaties ending would sort of result in the same. But as you said there is not enough meat in the ending cinematic to figure that out properly.

@AEmer:
If I'm not mistaken if you blow everything up you would (assuming without their boss the companies are down which is a bit a far grasp) wipe off the Sarif Industries and this Chinese bio-tech company (actually in all endings given that logic). Now if I remember correctly there are a bunch of other bio-tech companies around the globe (mentioned in the riot-news broadcasts). So if you leave the world to itself with these figures, companies and organizations pulled out of traffic wouldn't the other bio-tech companies continue to do their business and thus simply replace a bunch of old rulers with new ones of the same kind? That's just a possibility of course but seeing on how the world in DX:HR depends already on mechanical augmentations would it not make sense for it to simply continue with the mistakes just with a different company having different names? After all the Illuminati and Versa-Life (and thus Bob Page) are not killed off in the blow it all ending. Could the world change for the better under these circumstances?

[Jaedar]

I take it I'm the only one who choose Taggart then?

Sarif ending sounded decent, but I felt it kinda implied that illuminati would gain control of humanity through their biochips so I skipped that. Destruction of the place would not really serve any purpose I felt, and going darrow and gettign rid of all augs forever also seemed a bit rash.

Didn't really think it through though... not enough caring about the game left at that point.

[AEmer]

@AEmer:
If I'm not mistaken if you blow everything up you would (assuming without their boss the companies are down which is a bit a far grasp) wipe off the Sarif Industries and this Chinese bio-tech company (actually in all endings given that logic). Now if I remember correctly there are a bunch of other bio-tech companies around the globe (mentioned in the riot-news broadcasts). So if you leave the world to itself with these figures, companies and organizations pulled out of traffic wouldn't the other bio-tech companies continue to do their business and thus simply replace a bunch of old rulers with new ones of the same kind? That's just a possibility of course but seeing on how the world in DX:HR depends already on mechanical augmentations would it not make sense for it to simply continue with the mistakes just with a different company having different names? After all the Illuminati and Versa-Life (and thus Bob Page) are not killed off in the blow it all ending. Could the world change for the better under these circumstances?

I don't think just blowing up panchea would go far enough. The secret needs to get out for major change to occur.

As I envision it, with the Darrow ending, humanity would immediately distrust all biotech companies. The medication, neurozopine, would be produced by government run pharmaceutical companies, and the methodology for producing it would be open sourced. All patent law regarding bio technology would be repealed, trade secret laws would be dismantled for the whole sector, and all existing patents would be declared unenforcable. Technological advancement would effectively be halted, and all current neural interface chips and software would be open-sourced.

The setback on ongoing research would be at least 10 years, but current level of technology would be maintained. We'd be back in a world where medical developments are grant based, not big business.

The game depicts the blow struck against biotech as considerably more fatal, but I doubt it would play out that way. At the end of the day, countless people would still need neuropozine, so it'd be inhumane to stop the flow completely. (huh...interesting how close zine is to zyme.....subtle connection between the two drugs? eh)

So...in this situation, I think the illuminati are kept out and things are solidly democratic. Whether that democracy would be more harmful is another matter, but the threads wouldn't be pulled by a puppetmaster any longer.

[WildcatPhoenix]

@Jonas:
That makes sense. It would explain why in DX:HR mechs are the daily norm while in DX they are reserved for special forces including the military. But then we get to the problem of the abilities. Gunther and Anna I guess can be considered top of the notch mechs seeing as they are part of UNATCO and money isn't really a problem there. Yet they seem to have inferior abilities than Jensen or other mechs the game has seen. Given the regulation is in place I have a hard time to figure out how it comes the mechanical augmentation technology fell back that far behind. All due to the "big bang" that happens soon after? If that would be the case both Sarifs and the Illuminaties ending would sort of result in the same. But as you said there is not enough meat in the ending cinematic to figure that out properly.

Unfortunately I think we're trying to rationalize something here that is nothing more than developer negligence. It reminds me of the "what date is DX1 set in/Alex D hologram" debate. I think the reason why those datacubes said 2054 and everything else says 2052 is because the developers screwed up and it made it in to the final build. I don't think there was any kind of logic behind Alex D being transparent. I don't think it was trying to say Page was setting up JC. I think somebody typed the wrong number and it snuck by the editors.

Back on topic: why are mech augs more powerful, streamlined, and widespread in DX:HR than in DX1? Because the developers really didn't care all that much about continuity. They saw this as a "reboot" of the franchise. Yeah, they threw in a lot of fan service (the music on the radios, Bob Page, namedrops of Everett and Duclare and Manderley, etc).

But the bottom line is, they wanted to show off some cool augs. Understandable. Augs are fun, and a core element of the DX RPG experience. So why make a prequel? Why set your game in a part of the story where augmentation is supposed to be clunky, functional, and in its infant stages?

So they just tossed all that out. Jensen is more powerful than Gunther and Anna simply because the developers thought it would be cooler that way.