ggrotz wrote:That's just a fact of life. I happen to code utilities and stuff and happen to have spent a lot of time on some things, yet I'm not going to spend all that time on stuff I hate. Follow?
As coder, you might not always have that choice. I guess if you don't, that's good for you, but in general the boring tedious stuff takes more time to make properly function
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I happened to notice that you can take the quad launcher from the guy on the factory roof of ABI and run through the rest of ABI to Ryan without a challenge. The only limit is ammo, if I didn't have that I wouldn't put the quad launcher down if I wanted a cheap win out of the game.
Do I hear "balance" there. If it wasn't for ammo, then !!!
Uh, that's kind of the point of balance, ain't it? Or did I miss some vital lessons during balance 101 that omit weapon ammo from being able to limit a powerful weapon (BFG or Redeemer anyone? Ggrotz perhaps?)
"Weapon balance" plays a part, sure, but the level design and the nature of the creatures placed within it will play a part as well in game balance.
That goes without saying. But where in TNM is a level "filled with Milbots". Sure, there are 4 in ABI, but you can hack them to work on your side, or not have them activate by being stealthy, or just take 'em down...
but it'll work for the beginning of ABI too, since 95% of the time you have the security bot waiting for you when you break out of the ice so you can't run anywhere without being slaughtered
That bot got a pretty big patrol area, much with his back turned, so even if this happens just hide until it's in the proper place.
That's usually how stealth works regardless.
I find I have more trouble sneaking past the 2 ABI Guards than that guardbot.
As for the space tech lab, I was referring to the tranq mines, but I ended up walking through them and solving that - cheap solution however.
You ARE aware you can just shoot them, right? Guess not. Read descriptions better next time in the future
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I was referring to the hoverbots in the chamber, but I got reminded of a better example in the OSC with the hoverbots. The only way to get to the computer and do the puzzle without getting sliced up is to be packing that stuff. Or hack.
Or prevent them from finding you by sneaking carefully. Or use one of the camo-suits you praise so much, or use radar transparancy.
I get more the feeling you're locked in a "way it's meant to be played" attitude than TNM is, like you try to convince us...
I'll be fair about it. I did the PDX game without doing that, but I did run into a couple of spots where I felt I was shorted for the level design in not having it.
And how exactly is that different from DX? Computer skill IS very valuable to have, seriously making your life easier in both. But, in neither is it absolutely required to acquire.
It makes your life easier, yes. But required, no.
What's next? Complaining about optional doors because you didn't pick the lockpick skill and that's a horrid designflaw?
I point to the "hint" suggesting computer skill upgrades within TNM, which I definitely find to be true (do you want to disavow it, Jonas?).
It's absolutely true. I am not sure what it has to do with your argument though. It's like the hint system stating "Sniper rifles are good for taking down enemies over long distances" and you then complaining you need that on shotguns too to be fair or something?
The level design is in many regards made to necessitate computer skill at points and your life is indeed "much easier" in TNM with it than without it.
As it should. And does. Like DX. If it was the other way around, I bet you would be here complaining how useless computer skill would have been.
No I'm arguing that every SKILL set should be equally useful.
We all agree... and state this ain't the case with DX, and thus, as a result, TNM.
Environmental, swimming and demoliton are behind most other options, and TNM did made tweaks to help this (remove swimming, molotovs).
You use the weapons and items in utilizing the skill sets, so those weapons and items are going to come into play with regards to those. For DX, I notice there isn't enough skill points to max them all out so you have to SPECIALIZE (that's the RPG part of it) to make them useful. I find in the numbers of variations there are that you start out with a weapon skill and then you discover that there are certain complementary skills and augs to that. So you build from there. What was pointed out (and the purpose of the low-tech game inventory screen), is that some of the complementary skills are more useful with some primary weapon skills than others.
Somewhere, somethere, you forgot to mention how exactly TNM does this the EXACT same as DX. Or wait, according to you it doesn't. Can't quite record what from here though, care to explain?
And you point out three complementary skills, which pay off to invest in if you go with certain primary skills. For example, if I play with pistols (basically a light weapon set), demolitions becomes useful. If I play close combat or non-lethal, the environmental skills become more useful (along with demolitions, it's a bitch to try to sneak and have a grenade go boom that's stuck to the wall).
Although most grenades don't do damage or have acc, and the LAM is usually untrained good enough in blowing up what you want. Doesn't leave much use for upgrading bar that little extra damage for LAMs or having more disarming time.
Environmental IMO is rather useless because the items are too rare to spend skills in that, I rather use the augs that do somewhat the same. And that's still the same with TNM, and the droprate is somewhat the same to me.
I fail to see how combat armor would help with a stealth play. Camo, sure, but then you probably have radar and cloak maxed anyway, and use the skillpoints to upgrade more useful hacking/lockpick/multitool.
But part of the reason why I made the original post is to point out that people need to be very careful in identifying what is truly junk because their preferences come into play.
Cigarettes are truly junk. PS20's. Zyme.
Environmental just generally aren't that useful. They are just too rare (the ammo balance thing you mentioned earlier). And they aren't powerful enough to make up for their rarity (like HE20 for example).
And that's the correct message out of my posts: Make sure what you think is junk really is.
I think Environmental traing is junk. And I am sure
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ggrotz wrote:Hassat Hunter wrote:IAnd yeah, I actually think TNM offers more freedom of choices than DX did, bar the cultsidequest then (oh, and Shadowcode)...
In terms of plot design yes, in terms of how to solve the levels, no.
Ehm... yeah... yeah it does. Maybe even more. Well, excluding the LEVIATHAN section (but that requires no player imput at all, so I can't say that could be 'difficult' in any way, and Shadowcode, even if there are plenty of options there too.
ggrotz wrote:Some pretty specific options there, and only good if you're upgraded on it.
Okay, you do a stealth run and not upgrade stealth augs? Something is amiss there. Can't blame TNM for being more difficult if you make stupid decisions (like... well... most games do). You can also get more creative
. A well-timed EMP grenade does the trick too, since they are relatively close to the floor there. HE20. Camo-suit.
If Low-Tech only, slice them with the DTS/FireSword. Although that gets you damaged, sure.
Enough options to pick... but if you obstinate refuse ALL of them in favour of only YOUR solution, which doesn't work... maybe you should reconsider who exactly here is the one stuck in his playstyle... we or you.
As with anything, but the question is can you have full success with any choice of equipment, skills, and augs (more properly skill set or skill class)? Or are you stuck packing rifles, shotguns, and pistols everywhere you go?
No.
Unless you somehow decide to fuck over all your stealthskills (incl. Computer) and stealthaugs. And stealth items.
Yeah... I wonder why stealth becomes harder then. Not impossible, mind you, just a lot harder.
Do you think (or not think) that the mod creators designed these mods to force a certain skill set or methodology in playing them?
No idea. But TNM was made to reflect DX's playstyle, which allows pretty much any methodology or skill set. And they succeeded it with it quite nicely.
And if you watch the "play TNM with 5 multitools and a LAM" walkthrough you see it succeeds adequately in being possible to do so, bar Shadowcode (but it was already stated that was intentional).