Deus Ex 3 - I'll just leave this here

[chris the cynic]

By Mr_Cyberpunk's brilliant logic, women who dress "slutty" are all asking for rape.

While the possibility to make that connection has hardly escaped my notice (especially given that elsewhere on the internet I've been following a discussion on victim blaming in cases of rape, assault and harassment for the past few days) I don't think that bringing that up is worthwhile or in any way helpful.

Victim blaming is wrong because it is victim blaming. One does not need to point to the most grotesque examples victim blaming is used for to make that argument. It is wrong in and of itself.

Yes, it is true that any time someone makes the argument that someone brings violation on themselves by doing something they consider provocative and then not putting out, which was Mr. Cyberpunk's argument, it brings unpleasant associations of evil arguments past to mind. But I don't see the benefit in dragging them into the light. It risks trivializing the more serious violation and is more likely to provoke the kind of defensiveness that will make someone reinforce their position than it is to make them seriously reconsider what they are saying. In my opinion at least.

While it is certainly true the much the same argument has been used to claim that rape victims were responsible for being raped, it is also true that comparing not-at-all-rape things to rape has a net effect of making rape seem ... well, less evil. You can't compare software piracy to rape without comparing rape to software piracy, and treating the two as comparable is a very, very bad idea. Ideally you could make the connection without in any way normalizing rape or in anyway implying they were remotely on the same level, but in the real world human minds don't tend to work that way.

As such, a good rule is that if you're not talking about rape, don't talk about rape.

[Edit:]
In my opinion.

I make no claims to be an expert on how best to stop people from blaming rape victims. I really don't. It is just that it seems to me that this is not the best way to go about it. I could, obviously, be wrong.

[nerdenstein]

Sorry to interupt the discussion but; Back on topic for a moment.

New Trailer for those interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9T6oi7j ... e=youtu.be

[chris the cynic]

Bob Page?

Might be interesting to see how he functions when he's Everett's understudy, assuming they remember that at this point he is Everett's loyal understudy.

There's a lot of stuff where if they do it right it should be good, but I have long since lost faith in their ability to do stuff right.

[Added:]
Some clarification. There's a lot of stuff in general that should be good if they do it right. Not much in the trailer really jumped out at me. The trailer seemed to be mostly same old same old. Even the giant gaping continuity hole is something that it long since became worthless talking about since everything that can be said about it has been said, ages ago.

The exception is that if my ears are working that sounded a hell of a lot like Bob Page, we knew he'd be featured, but unless I've forgotten something this is the first time we've heard or seen HR-Bob Page. Assuming it is HR-Bob Page

[Jaedar]

The trailer is mostly strung together from in-game(well "ingame") cutscenes from the leak. It's fairly certain its mr bob page.

[VectorM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QeUGoZH ... ideo_title

Clearly, DX:HR doesn't let you do anything that the developers didn't think off first.

[Jaedar]

Not sure I understand what the player was not able to do?

[G-Flex]

Judging by the images in the first post, and that video, it's clear that the developers of DX:HR decided to save on graphical processing power by making the game entirely monochrome, allowing color to be represented through saturation and luminance alone, thus leaving room for the rendering of more impressive visual effects.

[Dragon]

"impressive visual effects"? What kind of "impressive visual effects"? [-(

[Jonas]

No offense to any of you but this entire thread is the most asinine waste of time and thought in recent memory, it's a blemish on this bulletin board, and I would that I could delete the whole thing and pretend it never happened.

As you were.

[justanotherfan]

No offense to any of you but this entire thread is the most asinine waste of time and thought in recent memory

Oh yeah, we should all be playing TNM instead ;-)

[Dragon]

No offense to any of you but this entire thread is the most asinine waste of time and thought in recent memory

Oh yeah, we should all be playing TNM instead

That would be actually a very good thing to do

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

By Mr_Cyberpunk's brilliant logic, women who dress "slutty" are all asking for rape.

Grasping at straws, regardless its not like that at all and I would never in a million years support the idea of rape. And it really shows the class of you as a person to actually play that card just to get out of actually having to write a proper argument. It is a blatant fallacy (please for the love of god read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) and you're just avoiding actually arguing the issue.. just as you have throughout this whole thread this entire time.

I'm insulted that you would even suggest this, you clearly have a problem with me and you're constantly going out of your way to insult me, rather than actually argue the issue, at no stage have I actually made personal attacks on you.. but you seem to just be constantly dishing them out at me, so what the fuck man.

If you have anything of value to contribute to this discussion please do so, and leave your personal insults at the door Thanks. Feel free to rebuttle the argument.. leave the personal attacks out of it.

--

To better my argument, I'm trying to say here that the demo was the consumers rights anyway, they had a right to at least trial the product before they purchased, the only thing that has really been done wrong here is that the hackers have ruined Eidos Montreal's potential to create "Exclusives" within the gaming presses as now the content has been leaked and no one will really care what those people have to say now since they can see it with their own eyes.. but I don't see this as a bad thing at all, those people have the time exaggerate and don't tell the truth. My hopes is that this leaked demo will encourage Eidos Montreal to do demos in the future to avoid leaks- if any good was to come of this anyway. As for the hackers compromising a private computer system, that is a crime and they should be punished for it, stealing the IP which was a demo is not really a crime since its a DEMO (if it had been the entirety of the game, this is then PIRACY and thus my argument 180s), it should be available regardless- so I don't see why its justified to not distribute it, our basic consumer rights entitle us to a trial of the product before purchase.

In the end, the hackers deserve to be sued for breaking the computer system- but not for leaking IP because they haven't done that, what has been shown is something that has already been publicly on show anyway, its just exclusivity NDAs were signed which is where there might be some issues. But in the end footage was shown of the game anyway, all of which is the demo we've seen.. I don't really see the problem. The game is far better off with this demo being publicly available.

[Jaedar]

No offense to any of you but this entire thread is the most asinine waste of time and thought in recent memory

Oh yeah, we should all be playing TNM instead

That would be actually a very good thing to do

Sycophants, all of ye!

The game is far better off with this demo being publicly available.

Yup. I can kinda see not making a demo for budget reasons, but having one and keeping it exclusive *cough*dukenukem*cough* is just dumb.

[Dragon]

And in the case of DNF many canceled their order as they've seen how they got raped. Same happened here. Would be a good thing for developers/publishers to learn from these two incidents (DNF/DX:HR) how much they deteriorated from the right path.

[chris the cynic]

And in the case of DNF many canceled their order as they've seen how they got raped.

Normally I wouldn't comment because, to be honest, I tend to care more about avoiding avoidable confrontation than doing the right thing. That said, since it's the second time it's come up in as many pages:

To anyone who is considering using rape in a conversation not about rape: fuck off.

Believe it or not, the casual use of the word rape and the use of rape comparisons to score points in arguments does actually cause harm to people. Usually people who have already been hurt quite a bit. Is that going to happen here? Probably not. That said unless you took a very personal census of everyone who might read this thread you can't possibly know for sure. Also, why would you want to be in the habit of doing something hurtful anyway? It's better to be in the habit of not doing it because the times when it does cause harm are usually times when the person doing it doesn't think it will, and might never learn it did. Times like this, in other words.

Plus things going either way tend to build by reinforcing the habit in others. The more you do it the more likely others you talk to are to do the same, the less you do it the less likely others you talk to are to do it. It's more helpful than you are likely to know if you set a good example.

In this specific instance, unless the people who canceled did so because they were sexually violated, then using that word is basically being an asshole.

-

And if anyone is wondering, I would much rather be talking about how EM are jerks or how it would be interesting to see Bob Page grovel than talking about this.