Deus Ex 3 - I'll just leave this here

[bobby 55]

Well Jonas you're right but PS:T is still de best talky-explory game and it made do without any fancy facial expressions(or faces at all for that matter). It had brilliant environmental art though.

If I want deep and meaningful I'll read a book.

And if you want deep, meaningful and interactive you'll play a good videogame.

Well with a video game I'll agree to the meaningful and interactive... deep to a lesser degree. I guess it depends on the game.

[Jonas]

It had brilliant environmental art though.

It did have brilliant environment art. I do wonder if Torment's dialogue would've been better if it had a Mass Effect level of animation though. It's probably safe to say we'll never know.

[bobby 55]

Mass Effect 2 's visuals certainly enhanced this players experience. I don't think it would have been a lesser game without them, but still....

[Jaedar]

It had brilliant environmental art though.

It did have brilliant environment art. I do wonder if Torment's dialogue would've been better if it had a Mass Effect level of animation though. It's probably safe to say we'll never know.

I actually don't think it would have, I mean lots of the text is about how the characters look, behave and say things, if you animated all the remaining dialogue may wind up stiff and very expositiony. Plus something I really like about the fact that its mainly text means I can skim through the slightly less important parts(I mean do I REALLY care about how this fruit salesman pronounces things?), and reread the complicated stuff, you just don't get that if you VO and animate everything. It just winds up looking and sounding stupid.

I am such a fanboy, defending primitive 2d graphics like that

Well with a video game I'll agree to the meaningful and interactive... deep to a lesser degree. I guess it depends on the game.

*cough*

[bobby 55]

Well with a video game I'll agree to the meaningful and interactive... deep to a lesser degree. I guess it depends on the game.

*cough*

Heh, I promise I'll play it....eventually.

[chris the cynic]

Chris. You are desperately needed at the DX3 forums. There are retards over there who are literally arguing Anna and Gunther were NOT in fact mechs and that there if no evidence or even mention of it AT ALL. I have quoted some small bits I could find immediately but you are so much better at reasoning.

There's only so much stupidity I can take, that might very well be too much. I don't think I'll be headed over there anytime soon.

Anyway, if they aren't too stupid to realize that being a mech means one is a mech, perhaps these will help:

From Conversations:

Gunther is a mech

A conversation on liberty island between two NSF members named Terrorist3 and Terrorist4:
Terrorist3 That's the difference right there. Just take a look at him.
Terrorist4 Bad?
Terrorist3 They cut off his arm, replaced half of his face.
Terrorist4 Hermann, right? He's a good soldier. Killed three of our men.
Terrorist3 They'd've replaced his whole body if it would've improved performance. If that's how you judge a man -- by performance -- then eventually it's not about people but upgrades, versions, functionality...
Terrorist4 All I know is we could use a few mechs for ops like this.

I'm not entirely sure who says this, but it's in the conversation file, presumably said on Liberty Island:
They sprung Hermann. We don't stand a chance against a mech.

JC and Jordan, discussing Gunther:
JordanShea I'm gonna say this once. That German mech from UNATCO already came by looking for you. You got money to spend, fine; this curfew's killing me, but leave me out of your business. That guy's oiled up and ready for a fight.
JCDenton Gunther...

Jamie and JC in Paris:
JamieReyes However, you don't have to fight Gunther -- or any other mechanically augmented agent.
JCDenton I'm prepared for a fight.
JamieReyes UNATCO never trusted its augmented agents. Any mech can be stopped in its tracks with a secret killphrase.

Walton and JC in Paris:
WaltonSimons Next time we won't use an old box of bolts like Gunther. The only reason I let him go to Paris is that I was sick of his moaning about Navarre and constant requests for a tuneup.
JCDenton You sent him because you knew he would fight to the death.
WaltonSimons He was the last of the mechs. Next time you will face someone of your own abilities.


Anna is a mech

JC and Anna talking at Castle Clinton:
JCDenton You mechs might have copper-wiring to re-route your fear of pain, but I've got nerves of steel.
AnnaNavarre You are not a mech. You do not know what it is like.

(For the record, the flag set if you choose that conversation option is "mechslur")

If you do that a UNATCOTrooper will say:
I'd watch what I say about mechs around Anna Navarre.

Paul and JC discussing Anna:
PaulDenton Anna... There's something you should know about mechs. They have killswitches, too. Only theirs are instantaneous.
JCDenton Interesting. I guess mechs have us beat on one count.
PaulDenton A killphrase, they call it. The NSF learned that Anna's is stored in two pieces on two separate UNATCO computers with the login "demiurge" and password "archon", but I never managed to find it.



Jordan is a mech

The conversation in the Underworld Tavern about Jordan Shea's augmentation is labeled "mech"

This is how Sally describes Jordan:
You might try that mech chick who runs the Underworld Bar.


General mention of mechs

ParkBumFemale2 From what I heard, when it's dangerous they send in soldiers that are all mech, like 90 percent metal.

RightHandMan Marty at the door says we have trouble. Soldiers coming in -- she says they are some kind of mechs.
(They were, in fact, MJ12 guys in power armor.)


In the ingame text


Diary in at the cathedral:
Can't even get a bottle of ketchup. And then this German mech-aug shows up yesterday. I knew a lot of stone-cold people in the service, and this guy looks like he's got murder on his mind...
He stands down there in the tech archive like a bot -- I was on patrol in the cellar for 10 hours and he didn't move once. Inhuman. It's like he's waiting for something. I think I heard him crying once...

Note that the above is a description of Gunther. He is in the tech archive when you find him. He is waiting for you. Note also that this description of Gunther calls him a "German mech-aug".

From: WS//UpNet.78543.98231
To: JReyes//UNATCO.00973.20892
Subject: Killswitch Evaluation

With your impressive grasp of nano-augmentation I thought it appropriate that you should participate in the evaluation of J.C. Denton's killswitch. It's unfortunate when situations such as this occur, particularly when they involve agents with the obvious talents and abilities of the Denton brothers. But given the need to protect civilians from potential rogue operatives, I'm sure you'll understand the necessity of developing a more effective killswitch, something similar to the instantaneous killphrases installed in all our mechanically augmented agents. Please contact Agent Sherman for the evalutation methodology.

Here we have, again, a mention of the killphrase. The thing you can use to kill both Gunther and Anna without firing a shot. The thing that mechs have.


Compared to Nano Augs:

From: JReyes//UNATCO.00973.20892
To: GHermann; ANavarre; JCDenton
Subject: Nano-Augmentation and You

I was asked by the regional medical coordinator to forward this information to all of you. I do so without further comment...

Dr. Reyes

----------------

By now, you've heard about the upcoming transition to nano-augmentation. It's coming, but not as soon as you think. UNATCO has only one nano-augmented agent, with a second just now graduating from the Academy. It will be years before the program leaves the laboratory.

Your mechanical augmentations are NOT obsolete. Some agents express concern that they will be "walking junk" in ten years. One agent expressed their fears in an anonymous e-mail saying "Well be sld at flee markets,. old gray golems for scareing the children. So what about my legss? What about my LIFE?"[sic]

Keep some perspective. Prosthetics remain the only proven technology for enhancing human abilities. Those who make the sacrifice are appreciated, commended, and saluted as heroes.

-

From: MedDirectorate//UNATCO.15888.00342
To: JCDenton//UNATCO.82098.9868
Subject: Nano-Augmentation Stressors

Nano-augmented agents will often encounter stress created by resentment among fellow agents, particularly those who have been mechanically augmented.

In an effort to secure freedom and liberty for those under their protection, many UNATCO agents have chosen to sacrifice social acceptance for mission performance by surgically replacing limbs and organs with mechanically or electronically enhanced equivalents. But your nano-augmentations point the way to the future: thousands of microscopic, living, organic machines that exist in symbiosis with your body.

Because such augmentations create only minimal disfigurement, they are likely to be a source of friction between you and other mechanically augmented agents -- but it is important to understand that UNATCO is an organization where individuals must act in concert. Each is important to the whole, and mutual understanding is essential to teams comprised of diverse human and augmented agents.

If you have any further questions or wish to discuss these issues, please feel free to send email to CarverEschells\\UNATCO.4352.768 to make an appointment. And welcome to UNATCO, agent.


Compared to M/WiBs:

PROSPECTUS: SERIES P AGENTS
proposal by Dr. Arthur Donovan (Versalife/HK)

The Series P Agents are the logical continuation of research resulting from the Series N: the development of a human agent with enhanced capabilities and absolute loyalty, but without the non-standard appearance of mechanical augmentation or the unpredictability of nano-augmentation.

[The rest of this document does not refer to mechs]

From: ADonovan//Versalife.839.56.00
To: MLundquist//VersaLife.783.48.90
Subject: Series P Agents (Overview)

The Series P trials have so far produced excellent results, and I continue to believe that our physiopharmaceutical approach to agent augmentation to be superior to mechanical augmentation -- and possibly even equivalent to nanotech augmentation -- at a fraction of the cost and effort.

[The rest of this document does not refer to mechs]


A few other mentions:

Commander Frase, we're pinned down in Hell's Kitchen and I'm not sure what to do... they're slaughtering us in the streets wherever they find us -- this one mech aug, he's like a giant walking tank, I saw someone pour a clip into him and it didn't even phase him.


From: MedDirectorate//UNATCO.15888.00342
To: JReyes//UNATCO.00973.20892
Subject: RE: Mech-Aug Question?

Information concerning the mechanism to which you refer is available only to those with clearance of Throne/6G or higher. Further discussion of this matter with unauthorized personnel will result in disciplinary action. All subsequent questions should be directed to Director Manderley.

UNATCO, Office of Medical Directorate

>While repairing one of our mech-augmented agents, I
>located a mechanism within the autonomic regulation
>system that was not present in any of the documentation
>I had available; I'm concerned that failure of this
>mechanism could lead to a complete autonomic shut-down
>of the agent's vital systems with the obvious
>consequences that would entail. I've attached
>additional CRI scans of the structure and surrounding


Know Your Enemy -- Silhouette

Famous for inserting 20th-century style commercials into the Net broadcast of the World Cup in 2050, Silhouette favors "feats of spectacle" over violence.

"Printed circuits, part of this nutritious breakfast," the announcer told children in one of the World Cup commercials. "You ain't mech 'til you eat mech. [A mech boy chews a memory chip.] Boys who eat organics get stomped by their posthuman classmates. [Mech boys in UNATCO helmets and metal boots take turns kicking another boy.

Despite their numerous pranks, these intellectuals, artists, and labor organizers pose a serious threat. They are well-armed and have been linked to the murders of numerous European politicians and journalists. They will not hesitate to use lethal force.

-
--
-

Or, you could simply tell them to play Deus Ex and see for themselves. It's pretty hard to get through the game without seeing something that refers to Anna and Gunther being mechs.

[Lork]

A condescending, pretentious rant

Let me make a little addition to one of my statements: "They could have made the guy look like 2000's concept of a cyborg in the near future." I'm sorry I wasn't specific enough for your exacting needs, I thought it was too obvious to mention. The idea that there was a popular concept of a cyborg in general is nonsense, because it's spread out across such a broad spectrum of sci-fi that it could look like almost anything. You can have a cyborg from 10,000 years in the future who is completely indistinguishable from a normal human, one from within our lifetimes who looks like this, or anything in between.

When the idea of cybernetics was first introduced, it was as abstract a concept as androids or ray guns: something that could possibly exist in the distant future, but which had very little basis in reality at the time. As we get closer and closer to actually achieving it, visions of what the first cyborgs will will look like become more and more accurate. The design of Adam Jensen is not (nor is it meant to be) a hyper realistic representation of what we're all going to look like in 2027, but it is informed by 10 the years of scientific, technological and aesthetic developments that, regardless of whether you're aware of them or not, have occured since 2000.

On the feasibility of the eye mod, I don't know, it's fictional future science; they could put the Hubble in his face, as long as he is generally inferior to DX1 mechs.

If that is in response to me, I just want to point out that I have no problem with fictional future science saying that in 17 years there will an eye sized device that can diagnose a broken arm at a distance in an instant.

Where I do take issue is when Lork, in his wisdom, says that a fictional world that doesn't have that technology is, "not a credible representation of the future for 2010."

Bullshit it's not credible. Lork may think that any representation of 2027 that doesn't have Jensen's eyes is wholly unbelievable, and Lork certainly has the right to believe that, but I think that that belief is positively insane. Forget about Anna and Gunther's eyes for a moment, if DX3 didn't have mechanical eyes at all, that would still be a credible future.

Seriously, if Jensen woke up and stuck in a glass eye (not a magic mechanical glass eye, just the kind we have today) and that was the only thing involving eyes in the video would anyone here, other than Lork, have said, "That's not credible! In 2027 we'll have mechanical eyes that fit right into your eye sockets and can do cool things like identify broken bones in your enemies. Any game that doesn't have those couldn't possibly be set in 2010's future!" ? Maybe someone would have said that, but I don't think a lot of people would respond in that way.

-

I think that eyes like Anna's and Gunther's are at least as credible as eyes like Jensen's and therefore do not buy that the DX3 team had to give Jensen the eyes that they gave him to make the game "a credible representation of the future for 2010."

Don't put words into my mouth, it only weakens your arguments further. Or maybe you could show me the part where I said that a future in which Jensen doesn't have a medical diagnosis aug isn't credible. I thought I was specifically talking about the way he looked. But hey, that's just like, my opinion, man.

I won't insult your intelligence by assuming you think that every single part of the augmentation needs to be located inside his eyeball. All the eye needs to do is collect electromagnetic rays and transmit the resulting data, regardless of what is done with it afterward. Any kind of sensory augmentation in the kind of future Deus Ex is presenting shouldn't need to be any bigger than a normal eyeball. Nobody in their right mind would replace their eyes with Gunther's; they'd either be insane, or a victim of the cruelest practical joke ever.

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

When the idea of cybernetics was first introduced, it was as abstract a concept as androids or ray guns:

Cybernetics as a study is different from what you're referring to, Cybernetics is the study of control systems on real world things, it has relevance to cyberpunk in the form of how electronics are a form of control system allowing the person to interface with the greater system the theme in Cyberpunk though is that the greater system is instead totally corrupt, it is not a science fiction idea, it is a REAL idea and it does exist and has existed for a while now (its earliest conception being Aristotle- up until it eventually was coined in the 20th century and turned into a mathematical theory.) I think the subject is interesting, a lot of people don't understand why its called this, but yeah just remember its referring to control systems NOT specifically science fiction. I just want to clear that up.

I won't insult your intelligence by assuming you think that every single part of the augmentation needs to be located inside his eyeball. All the eye needs to do is collect electromagnetic rays and transmit the resulting data, regardless of what is done with it afterward. Any kind of sensory augmentation in the kind of future Deus Ex is presenting shouldn't need to be any bigger than a normal eyeball. Nobody in their right mind would replace their eyes with Gunther's; they'd either be insane, or a victim of the cruelest practical joke ever.

How about we look at this from an industrial design/aesthetic perspective, the natural progression of medical technologies is that as time progresses the technology becomes smaller and smaller. When its first invented its usually very crude and poorly implemented. The way gunther's eyes work is that at the time Mechanical Augmentation was a very crude process, we learn that Mechs require huge amounts of continuous work because its not the most ideal way of doing this kind of thing, they simply weren't good with the science. Mechs are supposed to be a FAILED attempt at augmentation, hence their depiction in Deus Ex 1, in Deus Ex 3 we see it the total opposite, the technology is too elegant for it to be an emerging technology- it doesn't take into consideration that when things are usually experimental they fuck up... A LOT..

As a result Gunther and Anna look ugly as hell because 1. the technology sucked and was quickly implemented 2. it didn't have to look good, it just had to work. I see too much attention to the industrial design, which contradicts the ideology of the first game, where by the Mechs are seen as throwaway. Nano-Augmenation was the future because it was easier to implement and better concealed. Mechs stood out like an eyesore. But even Nano-Augmenation had its problems, this is why we're to understand that Pharmaceuticals were becoming an increasingly more common method of Augmentation- especially with the MIB.

I think the obsession with Geometry is contradicting the first game. Mechs aren't elegant and graceful.. they are clunky, rusty, weird looking things. That's where the problem is. It contradicts natural progression, Deus Ex 1 doesn't mention any kind of cataclysm to make this even slightly feasible, I mean its obvious they do have industrial designers in the future, its obvious that the industrial designers from this era are still alive in Deus Ex 1's era- they would still contribute to the style of the era, in the same way 1980s artists still inspire the art of today (see Cid Mead for example- he's still working ).

Anyway that's how I'd explain it.

[chris the cynic]

A condescending, pretentious rant

Let me make a little addition to one of my statements: "They could have made the guy look like 2000's concept of a cyborg in the near future." I'm sorry I wasn't specific enough for your exacting needs, I thought it was too obvious to mention. The idea that there was a popular concept of a cyborg in general is nonsense, because it's spread out across such a broad spectrum of sci-fi that it could look like almost anything. You can have a cyborg from 10,000 years in the future who is completely indistinguishable from a normal human, one from within our lifetimes who looks like this, or anything in between.

When the idea of cybernetics was first introduced, it was as abstract a concept as androids or ray guns: something that could possibly exist in the distant future

The 1839 (earlier I said 1843 but that was actually a reprinting, so sorry about that) story that is considered the earliest example of a cyborg in fiction was set in what was then the present day. The cyborg tv shows of the 1970s were set in the 1970s. The Terminator from the 1984 movie The Terminator was, according to the movie, constructed in 2029.

Ideally I would like to put forward all of those examples as things to be considered when talking about the "concept of a cyborg in the near future" but if I did someone could correctly point out that present day is, by definition, not set in the near future. As such we have to throw out the 1839 story and both of the 1970s tv shows, as well as various other movies books and whatnot.

Anyway, what about my remaining example? What about the Terminator?

Are we counting that as set in the distant future? Certainly the cyborg in it was set to be built a full forty five years after the film was made, so perhaps that is the distant future by your reckoning. But if it was then that would mean that 2052 was the distant future when Deus Ex was released. (52 years is more than 45 years after all.) Meaning that what we saw in Deus Ex had nothing to do with the "2000's concept of a cyborg in the near future." It had to do with the 2000's concept of a cyborg in the distant future.

And by the time Deus Ex was made they were working on 16 years of accepting fiction that said that by the time we had moved that far into the future we would have been able to cover fully functional mechanical limbs in flesh so real it could sweat and bleed, we would be able to have mechanical eyes that looked like real ones until you ripped off the outer covering revealing the glowing red robot eye underneath.

If, on the other hand, Deus Ex's mech augs represent a near future concept of cyborg then that means that The Terminator's combination of flesh and blood plus mechanical parts was likewise a near future concept of cyborg because it was a concept set a seven years closer to its time of release than Deus Ex. I would prefer this classification as I never considered Deus Ex to be set in the distant future.

In that case we are faced with the fact that when Deus Ex was released we had 16 years of popular culture embracing the idea that in the near future cyborgs would be so good they were indistinguishable from human beings until you got under the skin.

Either way, the appearances of Gunther and Anna represents an active choice on the part of the developers, a choice that differed from the concept of cyborg that far in the future entrenched in the popular imagination by the time Deus Ex was released.

but it is informed by 10 the years of scientific, technological and aesthetic developments that, regardless of whether you're aware of them or not, have occured since 2000.

None of the developments represent anything new from the point of view of someone looking down the road to 2027. They are parts of trends that existed before Deus Ex came out.

The first bionic ear was implanted in 1984.
The research on bionic eyes has been ongoing since the 1950s with multiple current projects preforming their proofs of concept in the 1990s. And of course the first example of mechanically augmented vision I know of was way back in 1978. (24 years later that project had advanced to this stage.)
Hell, we've had augmented bladders since the 1980s.

Certainly things have advanced, just look at the pictures I've linked to with the blind guy with a hole in the back of his head who can now see (pictures from 2002), but there have not been unexpected leaps and bounds in these areas, there have been continuations of trends started well before Deus Ex was made. All of the stuff that makes Anna and Gunther seem unrealistic to you now was present then. Yes it was ten years less far along, but it was clear where it was going.

The reason that the advances you bring up are useful in saying what is and is not credible in 2027 is that they are not isolated incidents but instead parts of trends. Those trends have not changed since the year 2000.

Don't put words into my mouth, it only weakens your arguments further. Or maybe you could show me the part where I said that a future in which Jensen doesn't have a medical diagnosis aug isn't credible.

You responded to my saying that I didn't think it should be in the game as shown by saying that that was "not a credible representation of the future for 2010."

If it not existing as shown is not a credible future then that means that the only credible futures are those which in which it exists as shown. This isn't some radical esoteric thing, that's what the words mean.

If you did not mean what you said that is hardly my fault.

I thought I was specifically talking about the way he looked.

I can't respond to what you thought. I can only respond to what you said. Perhaps in the future you should say what you are thinking.

Any kind of sensory augmentation in the kind of future Deus Ex is presenting shouldn't need to be any bigger than a normal eyeball. Nobody in their right mind would replace their eyes with Gunther's; they'd either be insane, or a victim of the cruelest practical joke ever.

And yet Anna and Gunther are a part of the future Deus Ex is presenting. Not only that, their appearance is an important part of the game's setting.

[Lork]

When the idea of cybernetics was first introduced, it was as abstract a concept as androids or ray guns:

Cybernetics as a study is different from what you're referring to, Cybernetics is the study of control systems on real world things, it has relevance to cyberpunk in the form of how electronics are a form of control system allowing the person to interface with the greater system the theme in Cyberpunk though is that the greater system is instead totally corrupt, it is not a science fiction idea, it is a REAL idea and it does exist and has existed for a while now (its earliest conception being Aristotle- up until it eventually was coined in the 20th century and turned into a mathematical theory.) I think the subject is interesting, a lot of people don't understand why its called this, but yeah just remember its referring to control systems NOT specifically science fiction. I just want to clear that up.

You're right that I misused the term there and I apologize, but I think you're being a bit too defensive about it not being related to fiction. All technology is fiction until it actually exists, so naturally, the farthest reaches of what cybernetics suggests can be done is conjecture. There's no reason why it can't be both real and fictional at the same time.

How about we look at this from an industrial design/aesthetic perspective, the natural progression of medical technologies is that as time progresses the technology becomes smaller and smaller. When its first invented its usually very crude and poorly implemented. The way gunther's eyes work is that at the time Mechanical Augmentation was a very crude process, we learn that Mechs require huge amounts of continuous work because its not the most ideal way of doing this kind of thing, they simply weren't good with the science. Mechs are supposed to be a FAILED attempt at augmentation, hence their depiction in Deus Ex 1, in Deus Ex 3 we see it the total opposite, the technology is too elegant for it to be an emerging technology- it doesn't take into consideration that when things are usually experimental they fuck up... A LOT..

As a result Gunther and Anna look ugly as hell because 1. the technology sucked and was quickly implemented 2. it didn't have to look good, it just had to work. I see too much attention to the industrial design, which contradicts the ideology of the first game, where by the Mechs are seen as throwaway. Nano-Augmenation was the future because it was easier to implement and better concealed. Mechs stood out like an eyesore. But even Nano-Augmenation had its problems, this is why we're to understand that Pharmaceuticals were becoming an increasingly more common method of Augmentation- especially with the MIB.

I think the obsession with Geometry is contradicting the first game. Mechs aren't elegant and graceful.. they are clunky, rusty, weird looking things. That's where the problem is. It contradicts natural progression, Deus Ex 1 doesn't mention any kind of cataclysm to make this even slightly feasible, I mean its obvious they do have industrial designers in the future, its obvious that the industrial designers from this era are still alive in Deus Ex 1's era- they would still contribute to the style of the era, in the same way 1980s artists still inspire the art of today (see Cid Mead for example- he's still working ).

Anyway that's how I'd explain it.

A design can be refined and iterated on before it is put into practice. Primitive medicine was implemented before it was ready because it was performed on people who were going to die anyway, by people who had no other way of testing it. When you're making permanent, potentially dangerous, and unnecessary alterations to the body of a living human being in a world where they can be accurately simulated, you're going to be a bit more careful about what you do. Besides, I'm not saying that it isn't a contradiction with the original.

The one thing that Mr. Cynic over there was right about was that in the original game, the mechs were a joke, and their design reflected that. Big red terminator eyes, chrome domes, ridiculous muscles, and other Ahnold references abound. In Deus Ex 3, mechanical augmentation is presented as something to be taken seriously, and Adam's design reflects that. I see that as a valid artistic interpretation. You might disagree with it, but to completely dismiss it and assume that the designers of DX3 are just "getting it wrong" is, well, dumb.

My real problem is the attitude that some people hold that the original Deus Ex is some kind of sacred work of art that must not be touched in any way, even by something that simply references it. If something in Deus Ex 3 contradicts the original, but makes for a better Deus Ex 3, I have no problem with that. I shouldn't need to remind people that DX3 doesn't somehow invalidate the original. Then again, maybe Eidos Montreal is planning to systematically destroy every single copy of DX while simultaneously using a mind control ray to erase everyone's memories of it. Then at least some of the reactions would be justified.

[justanotherfan]

Dunno what I was replying to, just talking after reading posts. To me, the eye thing can happen. It's a stretch for the time and a difficult fit with DX1, but I think it would have been an interesting addition to the Targeting aug in DX1 ("Target: NSFTroop. Broken Arm, Sprained Wrist, Swollen Uvula") instead of 0-100 percent healthyishness. Could happen, hopefully they have an explanation why it did.

The way gunther's eyes work is that at the time Mechanical Augmentation was a very crude process, we learn that Mechs require huge amounts of continuous work because its not the most ideal way of doing this kind of thing, they simply weren't good with the science. Mechs are supposed to be a FAILED attempt at augmentation, hence their depiction in Deus Ex 1, in Deus Ex 3 we see it the total opposite, the technology is too elegant for it to be an emerging technology- it doesn't take into consideration that when things are usually experimental they fuck up... A LOT..
As a result Gunther and Anna look ugly as hell because 1. the technology sucked
Mechs aren't elegant and graceful.. they are clunky, rusty, weird looking things.
Deus Ex 1 doesn't mention any kind of cataclysm to make this even slightly feasible.

I see mechanical augmentation differently in DX1. I saw it as technological progression from a mature yet limited technology to a new one. I'd think CRT vs. LCD. At the height of CRT, it still had huge inherent issues. Extremely successful technology, replaced.
-

Mech augs worked, and UNATCO could have made an army of mech agents but only had two. The "sticky knee actuator", along with the grotesque appearance shows limitations that are fixed mostly with nanoaug. It's part of why I think early mech augs may have been failure prone gadgetry that eventually got streamlined for performance. And yeah, nanoaug had some bigger issues, like "Hey, a life-size stone replica of Chicago." (DX2 if it counts).

I mentioned before this trailer that mech augs may have had past issues, like where Jordan O'Shea says "(heavy augmentation) but I can still polish a glass"; Jensen couldn't even hold a glass without it shattering, maybe. It's an interesting addition to the video, and I'm pleased and surprised it's there. Maybe it's a part of the story.

Augs in DX3 may be elegant because people cannot yet handle seeing the full grotesqueness of all-out mechanization. There may be severe penalties in strength and speed for aesthetics, penalties that weren't accepted by DX1's time. Make Gunther enough of a war machine, and the people that hate him won't matter. I think that Jenson's mech augs are taken very seriously because he can still shred normal humans as a mech, in a world where this is new, but nanoaugs will eventually make him a joke.

I'm just talking potential and nonsense, but I hope they do something like that to try and explain why Jenson appears advanced enough to defeat JC. You're right, it doesn't mesh, and there's no cataclysm or reasoning mentioned yet. Maybe we'll see some powerful but horrific-appearing aug options. If not, it still won't bother me in-game. What would bother me, is if experimental Jensen occasionally can't walk because his knee seizes, or if he goes blind when he runs out of battery power.

[Lork]

Don't put words into my mouth, it only weakens your arguments further. Or maybe you could show me the part where I said that a future in which Jensen doesn't have a medical diagnosis aug isn't credible.

You responded to my saying that I didn't think it should be in the game as shown by saying that that was "not a credible representation of the future for 2010."

If it not existing as shown is not a credible future then that means that the only credible futures are those which in which it exists as shown. This isn't some radical esoteric thing, that's what the words mean.

If you did not mean what you said that is hardly my fault.

I thought I was specifically talking about the way he looked.

I can't respond to what you thought. I can only respond to what you said. Perhaps in the future you should say what you are thinking.

No, see, that's just you deliberately misinterpreting a very obviously facetious statement, much like you did my original one. The meaning of that sentence should be obvious to anyone with a reasonable understanding of English, but since you still seem to be confused, let me repost it for you:

They could have made the guy look like 2000's concept of a cyborg and maybe it would've made you happy, but it would've turned everyone else off, because that's not a credible representation of the future for 2010.

I've bolded the important part that you seemed to miss. You might also notice the complete lack of any reference to the existence or nonexistence of a medical diagnosis augmentation.

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

You're right that I misused the term there and I apologize, but I think you're being a bit too defensive about it not being related to fiction. All technology is fiction until it actually exists, so naturally, the farthest reaches of what cybernetics suggests can be done is conjecture. There's no reason why it can't be both real and fictional at the same time.

The science fiction is localized cybernetics within someone's body- such cybernetic systems don't exist so there is some fiction there, but this didn't happen until the Cyberpunk era (1980)- so its way after Ray guns and the others.

Augs in DX3 may be elegant because people cannot yet handle seeing the full grotesqueness of all-out mechanization. There may be severe penalties in strength and speed for aesthetics, penalties that weren't accepted by DX1's time

As much as I want to believe that, Blades coming out the guys arms, Tentacles that can climb buildings, the ability to burst through walls and the ability to Auto-Heal all contradict that. The eye was just the last straw- it sounds like JC's abilities- and in some cases BETTER than JC's abilities. Jensen is just a security guard.. so why is he getting this kind of crazy stuff when Gunther couldn't even get a skull gun!? and WHY wasn't JC given something similar (ie. Tentacles, Blades, Wall Bashing ect ect) (since he was state of the art practically).

[bobby 55]

More skull gun lolz....... please.
I think Gunther was the only one to ever take that seriously. lol.

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

More skull gun lolz....... please.
I think Gunther was the only one to ever take that seriously. lol.

I recall in Invisible War there was a PDA saying "Delivered Skull Gun to Gunther Herman's office, wasn't there to receive (because he's dead) Returned to Sender" Or something along those lines. Suffice to say I loled.

EDIT: Found it