GMDXv9.0 Release

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Made in China
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Made in China »

My personal keybinds:
C = Crouch toggle
Z = Toggle laser
X = Toggle scope
R = Reload
F / RMB = Secondary weapon
E / Middle Mouse Button = Interact
Q = Change Ammo

Maybe instead of caps lock for inventory, change it to tab? I hate pressing the caps lock key - I hate having the LEDs on my keyboard on.

The hatred of LEDs and therefore F-lock also made me use the numpad for augs, shifted -2. I use the big zero key for the flashlight.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Cybernetic pig »

RoSoDude wrote:
Cybernetic pig wrote:...
Having functional default keybinds is an obvious positive move. I wonder if the toggle laser button could be assigned to something closer (you said 'V' is currently unused), because it ends up being pretty important for those weapons its applied to. I use 'ALT' personally, and the old bind for that is a strafe key (???).

Was going to argue against removing toggled walk/run but you reminded me that 'SHIFT' is hold to walk/run by default, so there's not much loss there. There have only been a few games ever where I have consistently used a toggled walk.

Not that I'll use these binds anyway haha.
Laser is assigned to backslash, which is to the left of Z. Or at least it is on my QWERTY.
Made In China wrote:Maybe instead of caps lock for inventory, change it to tab? I hate pressing the caps lock key - I hate having the LEDs on my keyboard on.
Yeah, Tab is a common one, but currently/vanilla it is assigned to drop weapon which I thought I'd leave for those that want to rebind middle mouse.
Made in China
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Made in China »

"\ Z X C" is a common, but not the standard, keyboard arrangement. On my keyboard the backslash is above the enter key.
I propose the use of Z and X keys instead, for universality.
Speaking of which, detection of Dvorak, AZERTY and other common keyboards?
Cybernetic pig
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Yeah, some minor tweaking may be in order.
Speaking of which, detection of Dvorak, AZERTY and other common keyboards?
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Shadowdancerxxl
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Shadowdancerxxl »

Well I move with the arrows xd So I can't help probably, but I'll write them down anyway, maybe it gives you an idea.

Delete = Reload
Insert = Change Ammo
End = Scope
Home = Laser
Page down = Inventory
Page up = Secondary Weapon
1-9 = Augs
0 = F12 / Flashlight
Right Shift = Jump
Ctrl = Crouch
Last edited by Shadowdancerxxl on Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx A mod that improves Deus Ex's gameplay, maps, visuals, audio etc. whilst staying loyal to its original design? Yes my friend, you may touch yourself with the light now.
Salk
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Salk »

It does not matter to me.

I will rebind them to suit my taste, as I would do before.
Defaultplayer001
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Defaultplayer001 »

I think more modern keybinds are a fantastic idea! I'd love to have to rebind less.

Also have you considered / looked into a system like the PS2 version's Quick Aug Screen, which lets you highlight aug(s) and activate it/them via a single button : http://i.imgur.com/JcoIUcR.jpg
Snowblinds Aug Cycle, which lets you cycle through augs with a button, then activate the selected one with a different button. : http://i.imgur.com/w0bYyQ1.mp4,
or MD's Aug Wheel, which brings up a menu on a button press/hold, which you can then use your mouse/controller to select an aug to activate directly: http://i.imgur.com/VVtNsDT.jpg

Effectively a system that via some method lets you activate multiple augs with a single button.
Made in China
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Made in China »

This is a really good idea - not because it enables controllers, because I still think they are incompatible with Deus Ex; but because it enables 60% and lower keyboards, which have become more common. Quick aug select with a wheel can work like in Advent Rising - essentially slowing down time, and every click either enables or disables an aug. Passive augs should probably be removed automatically, or colored differently.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Made in China wrote:Quick aug select with a wheel can work like in Advent Rising - essentially slowing down time, and every click either enables or disables an aug.
Infidel! I hate selection wheels for weapons/powers with a passion. Can't think of a game where I didn't think it sucked in both PC and console games. Real time selection cycles (preferably with selection confirmation for big cycles) or hotkeys are my preferred methods.

If people want accessible augs, bind them to 0-9 as ShadowDancer above has. He then exclusively uses select weapon with mouse wheel (which is especially optimal with the invisible war toolbelt option, which cuts the animation cycling by adding selection confirmation).
Furthermore as a bunch of augs are now passive or automatic this cuts down the # of augs to manage, so only 1-9 should need to be bound. 1-5 if you go for all the passive/automatic augs.

What I hate about selection wheels:

-usually accompanied by smagically slowed/paused game speed, which has no place in a game like this.
-Interrupts the flow of the action by stopping time and drawing a massive window in your face.
-With a real time selection cycle a skilled player can skip right to their desired weapon and draw just as fast/almost as fast as weapon wheel usage. Sometimes faster, depending on the game/implementation.
-With other methods you can typically still move, look and perform other actions whilst selecting weapons. In fact, you have to: it plays into the gameplay. Standing there like a dummy choosing your weapon can get you killed.

I acknowledge a wheel is the most streamlined of selection methods and throws everything into one key/button-triggered menu, but I value the many positives of a real time selection cycle far more. I hate the constant interruption of the action with a wheel most of all.

I think Invisible War's method of item/power selection should have become the modern standard (yes, Invisible War), not weapon wheels. And this is reflected in GMDX with the "Invisible War Toolbelt" option.
Defaultplayer001
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Defaultplayer001 »

Cybernetic pig wrote:If people want accessible augs, bind them to 0-9 as ShadowDancer above has. He then exclusively uses select weapon with mouse wheel (which is especially optimal with the invisible war toolbelt option, which cuts the animation cycling by adding selection confirmation).
I've done similar binds before, and it's always been uncomfortable reaching not just up, but especially past 4.
Not nearly as bad as the function keys, but far from ideal.

I personally agree with the selection wheel loathing, primarily the in-your-face and the magical time stop aspects, however only one of those methods is a selection wheel.

The PSX2 system is a bit clunky IMHO, but does have the advantage of being the only system to let you multi-activate augs.

I think the best system like you said, is the Invisible War / Snowblind System, which are actually identical, but bound differently. And I was actually totally unaware of the IW aug select system all these years till now due to the obscure bindings for it ><. Explains why it was changed in Snowblind.

Each presenting an key to scroll through and select augs and then allowing you to activate the selected one via a separate key.

And though the IW system is reflected for the items in GMDX, it does not extend to augs.

My personal ideal would be the Invisible War system, with the bindings more accessible, and with the ability to select and activate multiple augs at once, like the ps2 version.

More then anything IMHO, the best advantage of such a feature would be improved accessibility for handicapped persons.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Defaultplayer001 wrote: And though the IW system is reflected for the items in GMDX, it does not extend to augs.
I think using rebound hotkeys is adequate, and often more desirable, but I agree more should maybe be done. It also doesn't have to strictly be 1-9 either, but 1-4 + tilde, V, Z, whatever, providing you have good memorization.

Maybe I'll commit to it out of curiosity/to keep my programming skills fresh at some point.
RoSoDude
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by RoSoDude »

Cybernetic pig wrote:Laser is assigned to backslash, which is to the left of Z. Or at least it is on my QWERTY.
As Made In China said, for me '\' is right above enter.
Cybernetic pig wrote:
Made in China wrote:Quick aug select with a wheel can work like in Advent Rising - essentially slowing down time, and every click either enables or disables an aug.
Infidel! I hate selection wheels for weapons/powers with a passion. Can't think of a game where I didn't think it sucked in both PC and console games. Real time selection cycles (preferably with selection confirmation for big cycles) or hotkeys are my preferred methods.

If people want accessible augs, bind them to 0-9 as ShadowDancer above has. He then exclusively uses select weapon with mouse wheel (which is especially optimal with the invisible war toolbelt option, which cuts the animation cycling by adding selection confirmation).
Furthermore as a bunch of augs are now passive or automatic this cuts down the # of augs to manage, so only 1-9 should need to be bound. 1-5 if you go for all the passive/automatic augs.

What I hate about selection wheels:

-usually accompanied by smagically slowed/paused game speed, which has no place in a game like this.
-Interrupts the flow of the action by stopping time and drawing a massive window in your face.
-With a real time selection cycle a skilled player can skip right to their desired weapon and draw just as fast/almost as fast as weapon wheel usage. Sometimes faster, depending on the game/implementation.
-With other methods you can typically still move, look and perform other actions whilst selecting weapons. In fact, you have to: it plays into the gameplay. Standing there like a dummy choosing your weapon can get you killed.

I acknowledge a wheel is the most streamlined of selection methods and throws everything into one key/button-triggered menu, but I value the many positives of a real time selection cycle far more. I hate the constant interruption of the action with a wheel most of all.

I think Invisible War's method of item/power selection should have become the modern standard (yes, Invisible War), not weapon wheels. And this is reflected in GMDX with the "Invisible War Toolbelt" option.
Agree that the ubiquity of time-slowing/stopping weapon wheels is ridiculous for the reasons you mentioned. Arguably, the idea originated from one of my favorite games, Perfect Dark, which had the only implementation I thought nailed the concept (by the way, that gameplay is mouse + keyboard emulation, so the idea still works). Crucially, weapon selection occurs in real time, and only the minimum information is drawn on the UI so as not to clutter your view. The items are also displayed in positions on a diamond rather than in a true circle, so even on the shitty N64 controller you instantly know which discrete angle to rotate to (on PC emulation, this is through WASD, not the mouse). Experienced players will have held the select button down and performed the correct stick swivel before reading the names of any items, which is faster than the IW toolbelt however you cut it.

The wheel is also entirely optional - if you know exactly what weapons you're carrying, you can tap the select button the correct number of times to arrive at your new weapon and it will allow you to cycle which weapon you're queueing up during the holster animation (avoiding DX's mousewheel problem but through a slow holster animation). If you'd played the game as long as I have, you'd have memorized the order of the weapon select cycle and would be able to perform this action without a hitch. You can't equip spy/mission gadgets in this way, however, so they only come up in the wheel and don't clutter the fast weapon select. The wheel primarily existed to offer a slick alternative to selecting equipment from the pause menu. Unfortunately, a pause menu is precisely what most weapon selection wheels have become.

For DX I personally have aug keybinds in locations around WASD. I think I used 'C' for cloak, 'B' for ballistic armor, 'Z' for run aug, etc. You have to commit these keys to muscle memory, but once you do I think it's superior to numbered augs. I have a binding roughly adjacent to WASD for every weapon in Quake for the same reason. That shouldn't be the default though, obviously.
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Turok 2 had the same, which is also a N64 game and predates Perfect Dark. It also had a next weapon/prev weapon cycle so you could use whatever method you preferred, but the execution wasn't great so the wheel was arguably better. didn't slow time, didn't bring up a massive window, if done fast enough didn't draw anything at all (if I recall), so yeah, maybe the earliest implementations had it right, which wouldn't be surprising given shooters/most genres have gone downhill in general.
It still overrode other controls though, you had to use the 'look' stick to select the desired weapon, so that problem remained.

Goldeneye and PD get a lot of love but I think Turok 1 & 2 and Duke Nukem: Zero Hour were the better N64 shooters (sorry, I know PD fans in particular can be very passionate).
RoSoDude
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by RoSoDude »

Cybernetic pig wrote:Turok 2 had the same, which is also a N64 game and predates Perfect Dark. It also had a next weapon/prev weapon cycle so you could use whatever method you preferred, but the execution wasn't great so the wheel was arguably better. didn't slow time, didn't bring up a massive window, if done fast enough didn't draw anything at all (if I recall), so yeah, maybe the earliest implementations had it right, which wouldn't be surprising given shooters/most genres have gone downhill in general.
It still overrode other controls though, you had to use the 'look' stick to select the desired weapon, so that problem remained.

Goldeneye and PD get a lot of love but I think Turok 1 & 2 and Duke Nukem: Zero Hour were the better N64 shooters (sorry, I know PD fans in particular can be very passionate).
Good to know that Turok 2 had something similar. It's true that it can be cumbersome to override the look or walk button to engage the wheel selection. Weirdly, I find it less annoying when it's selected with WASD, because I really hate rotating my mouse over a large circumference just to select a weapon.

Of those games I only played GE and PD. GE was trash by any modern standard, or PC standards at the time, even though it had some cool features. I could heap praises on PD for many of the things it did with gameplay/mission design and its quirky cyberpunk/X-files vibe, but it is also far from a perfect game (heh). I revered it when I was younger because I found it notably better than every other console shooter I saw from the Xbox/PS2 era onward (though I wasn't looking comprehensively). I still think the game mostly holds up with the M+KB emulation.

Since Night Dive's Turok 2 remaster is getting good reviews I've been considering checking it out, I like a good retro shooter romp.
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Re: GMDXv9.0 Announced

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Since Night Dive's Turok 2 remaster is getting good reviews I've been considering checking it out, I like a good retro shooter romp.
Some notes for you:

-It's rather hardcore and a bit of a mindfuck. You really have to use your brain, as far as pureblood shooters go.
-has a bit of a slow start, as the first two levels are not the game at it's best. Level 3 & 4 are my favorite levels, as things start getting more interesting there.
-Multi-level, comprehensive interconnected level design that demands attentive navigational skills. Levels are about four-five times the size of your typical Doom or Duke 3D map. They take about an hour to conquer on average, sometimes more.
-Weapons are inventive, and you get a rather large arsenal as well as alt ammo types and rare linear upgrades, although it takes a while to move up past the bog standard starter weapons.
-Old school hardcore platforming as a secondary gameplay element, pretty standard for classic shooters and action games.
-Restricted saving in combination with a limited lives system. A true test when things get heated.
-May need extensive control, movement, settings etc tweaking for optimal shooting control. The Nightdive remaster of turok 1 did anyway, not because of a shoddy job but because Turok has some weird defaults, like Lookspring.

In the case of T2 you just have to withstand the first two levels, imo. I didn't truly get into the game until level 3 anyway.

As for goldeneye, well I wouldn't call it trash (I'd readily play it over 80% of brainless modern shooters) but it is certainly a vastly overrated game due to baby's first FPS syndrome.
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