GMDXv9.0 Release

[RoSoDude]

Laser mod: as has been stated before, when using the laser mod the dynamic xhairs no longer draw when aiming at a target (which acted as target confirmation) in v9.0, making medium-long range shooting with the laser difficult.

Somehow missed that in previous discussions. I think I'm actually satisfied with that change. The lack of any waver whatsoever (not drift like you can see in Shifter, just a bit of oscillation about the center) still bothers me, but I imagine that losing the aiming confirmation actually helps a great deal, and makes sense if you consider how JC's targeting systems might work.

Environmental aug/aualung aug: these are both potentially better in v9.0 if you use the "augmentation override canister" on them. No spoilers.

Cool, looking forward to whatever that is.

ADS: note that Simons is only tough on hardcore mode. On all other difficulties he is comparable to a MiB. Anyhow, I prefer him having energy shield vs explosives as opposed to ADS. A player that has never used ADS before or didn't pay close attention to the Simons image probably would not have a clue why their rockets are exploding in mid-air or their wall mines are blowing up for seemingly no reason and will scream bug. Additionally, if the ADS is set to detonate a few feet away from simons so that it still damages him somewhat and doesn't explode in the player's face, it will ensure any explosive you blindly toss/fire in his direction will hurt him, rather than having the potential to miss. Energy Shield is more skill-based.
Also even if you were to toss a grenade or something close range to simons (bounce it off a wall while running away or aim the grenade straight down) it'd instantly explode and again, a sizable chunk of players will not have a damn clue why.

Solid reasoning in terms of player feedback. I think the energy shield is a fine representation. Is he still a pushover on Realistic, then? I don't remember how I beat him in v8.0 on Realistic but I don't remember having any extra difficulty there compared with MiBs, yeah.

[Cybernetic pig]

Well, there's that:

Code: Select all

simulated function Tick(float deltaTime)
{
    if (bLasing && (Emitter != None))
	  {
		    loc = Owner.Location;
			loc.Z += Pawn(Owner).BaseEyeHeight;

			// add a little random jitter - looks cool!
			rot = Pawn(Owner).ViewRotation;
			rot.Yaw += Rand(5) - 2;
			rot.Pitch += Rand(5) - 2;

			Emitter.SetLocation(loc);
			Emitter.SetRotation(rot);
		}

But any locational jittering would be a misrepresentation of accuracy. Headbob makes it sway when running also, and GMDXv9.0 features nice new headbobbing which is more realistic than the horrid vanilla headbob.

Regarding simons: just checked his code over for a memory refresher. He's slightly better than MiBs on easier difficulties. and of course he uses cloak, speed enhancement, ballistic protection, environmental resistance and energy shield.

Anyone take any issue with the puzzle expansion in the NSF headquarters basement? Was it intuitive enough? Over the years I've had three-four people asking what to do there, but of course plenty others got through it fine. But it's tricky, because before it was a piss easy puzzle of sorts and now it's a touch more involved, so players who had played vanilla before GMDX may get confused?

[Cybernetic pig]

Enemies don't have limitless ammo, just a lot more. It takes away from the realism aspect but does a lot for gameplay, and even counter-intuitively, improves realism as enemies don't get their knife out and start running in circles, waving it in the air when they can't reach you (e.g hiding in vents), and generally being unable to hit you if you simply keep moving because of the way DX NPC melee works. I am in the process of addressing all those individual things but I won't set enemy ammo counts back to vanilla because it just makes for far better gameplay.

Vanilla human NPC melee behavior should be avoided at nearly all costs. It's essentially:

Find path toward player. -> Attack (and guaranteed to miss if the player is moving).

If player cannot be reached, stand still waving knife in air and occasionally run in circles.

And that's about it.

In this state they're not agile, intelligent, diverse, competent, they're not even the slightest bit of a threat. Their slow movement speed becomes apparent too.
There's very little animations associated with melee behavior. Melee attack 1, melee attack 2. That's it. Same two anims for all weapons. I personally can do nothing about that.
To melee attack, NPCs have to first stop moving. I can't do anything about that because of the two anims.
NPCs finding a path to you = more chances of pileups in doors. More chance of NPC friendly fire due to the inaccuracy system.

It was the absolute most unpolished aspect of vanilla AI.

I've neglected addressing much of this stuff directly because it's far simpler, and more importantly far better for gameplay and Immersion to simply get rid of it, and there's not a whole lot of point in even trying. I wouldn't be able to address it to a satisfactory extent because many things just don't gel well with it, I've no animator, and aspects of navigation code inherent to the engine is out of my reach.
There's still the occasional enemy that will run out of ammo real fast for realism and diversity in the vanilla's spirit, but all the dumbfuckery after the fact becomes apparent if you don't happen to immediately put them out of their misery.

So aside from The Triads with their swords, the player shooting a weapon out of the NPCs hand, and the rare NPC that does run out of ammo fast, the only meleeing happening should be the new GMDX individual melee attack systems for the dog, humans, commandoes, greasels etc. Much better stuff.

Some of this was a bit of an overstatement, by the way. There's still plenty NPCs meleeing, such as the NYC thugs with crowbars, but those you typically engage in combat (NSF, UNATCO, MJ12 troops) use vanilla melee far less, and instead use GMDX melee systems which are plain superior in nearly every respect.

[RoSoDude]

Well, there's that:

Code: Select all

simulated function Tick(float deltaTime)
{
    if (bLasing && (Emitter != None))
	  {
		    loc = Owner.Location;
			loc.Z += Pawn(Owner).BaseEyeHeight;

			// add a little random jitter - looks cool!
			rot = Pawn(Owner).ViewRotation;
			rot.Yaw += Rand(5) - 2;
			rot.Pitch += Rand(5) - 2;

			Emitter.SetLocation(loc);
			Emitter.SetRotation(rot);
		}

But any locational jittering would be a misrepresentation of accuracy. Headbob makes it sway when running also, and GMDXv9.0 features nice new headbobbing which is more realistic than the horrid vanilla headbob.

When you say misrepresentation of accuracy, you mean that it would misrepresent where your shot is going to hit? My suggestion was to have the dot sway just a little bit to represent the unsteadiness of an untrained hand, provided you haven't leveled the Pistol skill. I'm just basing this off my memory of being able to quickly pop the heads off of most enemies in the first 1/3 of the game with no pistol training, but I will wait to see how it feels before commenting any further. Might actually be good.

Regarding simons: just checked his code over for a memory refresher. He's slightly better than MiBs on easier difficulties. and of course he uses cloak, speed enhancement, ballistic protection, environmental resistance and energy shield.

I think the speed boost in particular makes him a good challenge.

Anyone take any issue with the puzzle expansion in the NSF headquarters basement? Was it intuitive enough? Over the years I've had three-four people asking what to do there, but of course plenty others got through it fine. But it's tricky, because before it was a piss easy puzzle of sorts and now it's a touch more involved, so players who had played vanilla before GMDX may get confused?

You're talking about the one right before you can save Paul? It did stand out, but I remember liking it. I basically didn't have any strong recollection whatsoever of the basement in vanilla, so I liked that it was a memorable challenge. Plus I love any challenge that can be solved with boxes. It also explains why UNATCO hasn't fully raided the basement, because it's so booby trapped. But I can see some players whining because it is a good hurdle.

[Made in China]

I've had no problem with the NSF basement puzzle. I think most people just weren't expecting such a redesign of a plot-important area, that's all.

You could also blow up some of the doors there if you had difficulties - there are explosives lying all over the place there. Blaming the puzzle because you couldn't solve it, or at least think of a way to circumvent it, is pretty dumb.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Anyone take any issue with the puzzle expansion in the NSF headquarters basement? Was it intuitive enough? Over the years I've had three-four people asking what to do there, but of course plenty others got through it fine. But it's tricky, because before it was a piss easy puzzle of sorts and now it's a touch more involved, so players who had played vanilla before GMDX may get confused?

On the contrary, I'm loving it! I'd love to see a few more puzzles throughout the game. Oceanlab could definitely use a few more puzzles for example. Not necessarily with boxes (although I also like puzzles with boxes), but something where you need to use your brain instead of your guns.

By the way, random idea/suggestion time!

Speed aug vs Run silent: Since I still feel that crouching+speed aug pretty much replaces the run silent how about having crouching not being affected by the speed aug? Like no matter how fast you can run with the aug, crouching should stay the same speed.

Speaking of sneaking: Human Renovation mod had a pretty good idea regarding sneaking which made the stealth more challenging and also more realistic at the same time. Basically if you "bump" into an enemy they spot you. Even if you're cloaked. Makes sense to me. It also feels kinda odd that I can run against an npc while I'm cloaked and they won't spot me. It also made for a few funny moments, because bumping into friendly npcs reacted to it the same way as if you would for example throw something at them. "Uh..That's against protocol, Agent."

ADS and Spydrone: I kinda feel that Spydrone on level4 is way too powerful and makes explosives and emp grenades pretty much irrelevant. Basic idea would be to make the Spydrone cost energy if being constructed. I don't know, make it cost like 20% energy or so. Everything else could remain the same. It would still be powerful, but not THAT powerful.
For the ADS I could imagine it using little to no energy if being turned on, but use a good chunk of energy if disabling a rocket or a grenade. This early warning beep shouldn't cost extra energy though. This way I could leave it turned on more without using a lot of energy, but in return it would use a lot more if actually doing something. Of course then we'd need a beeping sound that's not going to get annoying after like 10 seconds like the current one : DD

[Made in China]

I agree with the first two suggestions.

Running aug kind of makes silent aug obsolete, even though improvements done in GMDX try and make things better. Still, running aug + stealth gives a far better experience than silent aug + athletics, so gimping the running aug a bit is probably necessary.

Touching NPCs = broken stealth, for world consistency. It doesn't matter if you touch them or bonk them with a crate or a baton.

Regarding the third one, ADS is broken (in my mind) because when it's used - it's OP. However, you don't know when to use it until it's too late - because explosives and rockets can OHKO you. So this aug is basically a reward for meta knowledge / save-scumming.
By gimping some of its potential (not allowing it to turn weapons on their users) and allowing it to be a passive aug similar to passive ballistic shield (making it draw energy only when it yields results), it can be balanced. That being said, it's very iconic, and turning your enemies' weapons against them is very satisfying - but since you don't know your enemies' loadout beforehand, it cannot be made satisfying for the right reasons.


For comparison, real world active defense systems work in a similar fashion, which justifies my way of approaching it:
There's a radar on top of the vehicle which is always on, and always scanning for threats - missiles, rockets and recoilless rifle rounds. Tank shells are generally too fast for it to be relevant, and only some systems are designed to deal with APFSDS rounds in the future.
When activated, it tries to identify what the threat is - if it's a missile (lower velocity than the other threats) it'll try and jam its guidance system.
If the threat is still on a collision course and is past a certain radius, a countermeasure will be launched which will either detonate the warhead from afar or deflect it.

The thing to note here is that the Deus Ex ADS only describes the third stage using nanites - so by that logic, should only consume energy when JC's is threatened.

[Cybernetic pig]

Speed aug vs Run silent: Since I still feel that crouching+speed aug pretty much replaces the run silent how about having crouching not being affected by the speed aug? Like no matter how fast you can run with the aug, crouching should stay the same speed.

GMDX already addresses this by making crouch-walking with speed enhance enabled produce footsteps (idea from Biomod, credit where it is due). However, it wasn't enough to simply call the footstep function, so now there's an additional multiplier to make it louder.

Speaking of sneaking: Human Renovation mod had a pretty good idea regarding sneaking which made the stealth more challenging and also more realistic at the same time. Basically if you "bump" into an enemy they spot you. Even if you're cloaked. Makes sense to me.

It's at odds with how takedowns work. Takedowns demand you be immediately behind the NPC for it to work, to the point of touching (which is one reason why people say DX takedowns are inconsistent). v9.0 has increased the range at which takedowns are registered, but it's still too close for comfort if Human Renovation's touching feature were to be adapted.
The perceived "inconsistency" is even more apparent when the NPCs are walking away from you whilst you are behind them.

Puzzles: there's a new one in version 9.0. Will consider adding one to the Oceanlab also, as currently it's mostly just a battle with turrets and greasels. But as usual the goal is to fit such things in without even moderate redesign of the location, and I'm not sure if that will be possible.

ADS/Spy Drone nerfing/redesign: dunno. all the active augs are pretty damn overpowered. Should just be offset by bionergy management on realistic and hardcore mode, for those that care about it.

[RoSoDude]

Question, does your stamina still not recharge when you're crouched? I thought I had seen you remove that feature. I ask because I really liked it, but since I wasn't actually doing much stealth in my v8.0 playthrough I don't know how much it affected gameplay.

Would love to see a puzzle in the Ocean Lab, it's already one of my favorite locations in the game for its atmosphere and various challenges which feel totally authentic.

Er, sorry, Warren Spector. I mean problems, not puzzles (but let's be honest they're puzzles).

[Made in China]

Your stamina recharges while crouched only if you have a perk for it (in Stealth, I think). It matters because you can't make a break for it after crouching and without planning ahead.

Random thoughts about world building objects:
In homeless villages, place pots on some of the fires as static objects. Those can be filled with liquids (water/soup) and/or rats/greasels.
The same concept can be applied to pans and stoves, in rundown residences like the 'Ton.
(Maybe shooting the pot will destroy it, causing the water inside to put out the fire? Probably too much coding for it to look good.)

Gifs or UV maps of ants/cockroaches crawling from hole to hole. I think it looking like a stream of bugs is wrong and cliched - if implemented, it should probably release a bug or two every random interval, and afterwards it restarts.
Maybe cobwebs in places like the abandoned gas station, Paris catacombs and the Vandenberg tunnels? These can break up the ceiling looking flat almost everywhere.

Make cleaner bots foes of rats (with low powered weapon used only for them) and make them gib their bodies. Afterwards they can pick up the giblets.

Have more dumpsters - they don't have to be messy like in LaGuardia, but every building that's still running should have one. UNATCO HQ, many buildings in Paris, etc.

Dual-lane street roads where applicable - it's just a white or a yellow line. Maybe in Paris.

Make Alex's office at UNATCO more like a regular coder's - dark and with a stack of pizza boxes piled right next to the door. Now that I'm saying that, in workspaces that involve hanging around one place all day, maybe area-dependent music could be added. The prison guards must be very, very bored.

w00t w00t a week with 3 hours of sleep per night

[Cybernetic pig]

Your stamina recharges while crouched only if you have a perk for it (in Stealth, I think). It matters because you can't make a break for it after crouching and without planning ahead.

This was my intention. One or two people complained, and I thought yeah that was rather hardcore, so now it regenerates while crouched, only if idle, and at a slower rate than standing. Naturally the perk makes it regen at any time, even while crouch-walking.

As for your world building details, some is inspiring and feasible.

[Made in China]

If the cooking-over-a-trashcan thing is implemented and can put out the fire, the same code should be used for the fire extinguisher's interaction with it. It could be used for stealth as it removes a light source - and for that same reason, it might not be applicable. I have no idea if burning trash cans are regarded as static or dynamic light sources.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Puzzles: there's a new one in version 9.0. Will consider adding one to the Oceanlab also, as currently it's mostly just a battle with turrets and greasels. But as usual the goal is to fit such things in without even moderate redesign of the location, and I'm not sure if that will be possible.

Sweet! I could even imagine a smaller puzzle in the catacombs that would grant you access to the silhouette bunker, because that would also explain why mj12 didn't find them yet and then you come along and find their bunker in like 10 seconds : DD
Although maybe puzzles shouldn't be mandatory, I don't know.

ADS/Spy Drone nerfing/redesign: dunno. all the active augs are pretty damn overpowered. Should just be offset by bionergy management on realistic and hardcore mode, for those that care about it.

To be honest, I prefer passive augs where I don't have to manage additional buttons, plus they're never on or ran out of energy when I actually need them. That's why I always go for the energy shield and the passive ballastic protection for example, although I still say energy shield should use some energy if getting shot at. Yeah I know it needs to counter the regeneration, but that aug is overpowered anyway. I mean it should work passively, like you can leave it on all the time and only use energy if restoring your health, but getting shot at or simply taking damage should stop the regeneration process, because this is not a defense aug. It should restore your health AFTER the threat has been dealth with. Defense augs like energy shield and so on are the ones that should protect you during a fight or if you're walking through a hazardous area. So that's why I think ADS and Spy Drone could use these changes, because I also think most augs should be passive anyway. Although, this is only my opinion and I might be alone with this.

[Bogie]

I always thought that the spy drone was insanely broken even though I never see it used in actual runs (probably due to the bio-electric consumption).

An idea I had was that after every transition (helicopter, submarine, etc). the player would be healed 10 points on lower difficulties (Easy, Medium).

[Made in China]

You aren't incorrect - but I think that the cooldown implemented in GMDX fixes a lot of what was broken about it. I think it'll be best if the EMP blast it produces will trigger enemies nearby and the mech (if it survives), because mechs usually aren't alone and it'll make combat more exciting, realistic, and prevent easy "sniping" of the harder enemies without repercussions.
It'll also bring some choice to the matter - do you want to use the drone against a small security bot, or snipe the MJ12 commando beside it? Either way you'll trigger combat, and now it's more about picking your battles rather than straight out avoiding them.