GMDX Art Thread

[Bird]

[…]an electronic discharge,[…]a huge electrical explosion, and all the entities in the water zone will die, automatically , regardless of their health. Including the player too[…]

That is not how these weapons work. You cannot electrocute anyone with a prod under water.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Yes, 6 whole pages of Kelkos forcing a CS knife and some random bushes onto this mod with hopes and delusions we would be impressed and immediately include it so that he gets credit, then not listening to anyone when things don't go his way...

A switchblade would be nice for thugs too, but I think that will be reaching. Up to CP though.

The last thing Deus Ex/GMDX needs are imports from other games. Just because a model is good and can be imported doesn't mean it should be imported.

Nah, I'm not asking for a switchblade. I'm just saying that a kitchen knife is really not necessary, because you encounter like 3 or so npcs at best that could use it, while a switchblade could be used by a whole bunch of thugs. Hell, even a tire iron or a leadpipe would be more useful, because it would fit hostile bums and random thugs/muggers who'd grab anything what they can find to beat the shit out of you for a few credits. Or wrenches for mechanics are also a better idea, than kitchen knives.


If somebody really wants to add something that's missing from the game (at least in my mind), then try to think of one or two non-lethal weapons. For starters a wireless Taser would be a good idea. Basically a short ranged gun that uses Taser darts (Obviously the ammo would be removed from the crossbow then). I mean I doubt in the future people will ditch their tasers to use prod batons again which can only be used if you get dangerously close to your opponent.

[Cybernetic pig]

A kitchen knife is desired. Combat knives and crowbars fill the thug role just fine. Meanwhile there are various chefs and butchers that don't have shit and it'd be a fix that nobody can argue with, providing the execution is good.

Also can give the generic kitchen knife here and there to a thug in place of the combat knife for realistic variety.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Thugs and muggers don't use kitchen knives, because they need weapons that are easy to conceal and a retractable switchblade does the job perfectly. While you could argue, that they could hide them under their jackets as well I have yet to meet some tough guy in real life who runs around with a kitchen knife. A kitchen knife is the type of weapon some kind of psychopath would use to kill his family or so.

Also I'd imagine butchers having meat cleavers in their hands, rather than kitchen knives. But as stated before I don't mind having Mortecha's kitchen knife added into the game because it is a pretty good model. Just please don't give them to thugs, because that'd be so out of place xd

[Cybernetic pig]

My brother armed himself with a kitchen knife to fend off some hooligans once. You're right it's not easy to conceal, but it's the most widely-available type of knife and I don't see why a junkie or a thug cannot have one under any circumstance.

Military issue combat knives in the hands of every thug is arguably much more questionable than a kitchen knife in the hands of one or two. Also concealment doesn't have to be an issue, because there is the bKeepWeaponDrawn bool (self-explanatory).

[Made in China]

I don't recall Deus Ex having many thugs anyway - mostly homeless guys. The late game thugs are generally well equipped, too - the spy thug after Jordan Shea is well equipped, and and so is Renault and his friend in Paris.

There are like 2 or 3 thugs in Hong Kong, and maybe 1 or 2 in New York? It isn't really crying out for diversity, seeing how spread out they are.

Giving mechanics a wrench instead of a crowbar, however, is logical and will not take any effort - one is present in TNM. But again, it's filling the weapon pool with garbage weapons so I'm not sure it's a good idea.

[Cybernetic pig]

There's plenty thugs. Brooklyn Bridge Rooks + Rock. Two guys cornering a bum at the basketball court. Sandra's Pimp. A portion of the NSF faction. And that's NY only.
Plenty junkies too.

But fine, if everyone prefers sticking to military grade combat knives (and more sensibly, crowbars) for thugs then the new knives can stick to their primary purpose and be for the chefs and butchers only. If in doubt play it safe. Although I have no concerns with giving a select junkie or two the new knife or placing it around their dens, 'cause they're junkies.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

Yeah it's very common and in case of self defense like with your brother or if you break into a house (in Deus Ex) and the owner "grabs" a kitchen knife to defend himself/herself then it's fine. It's also sort of fine for desperate junkies to grab one. I'm talking about thugs and muggers who actively harass people on the streets for money, jewelry and stuff. When it comes to melee weapons I think they will have a switchblade on them (and some other stuff) which are also very common. Hell, even I have 2 switchblades and I don't mug anyone. I think It's just simply a better choise.

Now I don't say don't add it to the game, because it's a good model and you can find uses for it. I also don't say to add a switchblade, because as you stated before the combat knife and the crowbar does the job for thugs. In fact the combat knife also does the job for butchers and chefs. I'm only think giving kitchen knives to experienced thugs and muggers is unrealistic.

[Made in China]

There's plenty thugs. Brooklyn Bridge Rooks + Rock. Two guys cornering a bum at the basketball court. Sandra's Pimp. A portion of the NSF faction. And that's NY only.
Plenty junkies too.

But fine, if everyone prefers sticking to military grade combat knives (and more sensibly, crowbars) for thugs then the new knives can stick to their primary purpose and be for the chefs and butchers only. If in doubt play it safe. Although I have no concerns with giving a select junkie or two the new knife or placing it around their dens, 'cause they're junkies.

All of the guys you've mentioned, aside from Sandra's pimp, are well equipped. I'm unsure if they'll switch to melee weapons if their ammo is depleted, as I've never tested it - although, if they have access to shotguns and pistols, wouldn't they also have access to combat knives?

You make a good point about junkies, never considered it. They are likely to use anything they can find and it's a good idea equipping at least some of them with kitchen knives.

EDIT: Tested it, NPCs never run out of ammo and only use their primary weapon. Also, one of the muggers in Hell's Kitchen uses a crowbar - I misremembered both of them having guns.
So, giving armed NPCs kitchen knives is a bit silly, as they won't ever use them. And putting knives in the NPCs' inventories is just asking for them to be removed, see "combat knife".

[Cybernetic pig]

The question isn't if they can or cannot, because of course they can. It's more like if they should or would.

Stating the obvious.

Give it up. I already said I won't give it to anyone except the job roles that demand it. You and MiC got your point through.
And butchers don't necessarily need butcher knives, as they use an assortment of knives. While a butcher knife is their primary tool of the trade, it's much more desirable they use a kitchen knife as opposed to a combat knife/throwing knife/nothing.

I still believe one or two thugs equipped with the new knife as improvisation would actually be making things more realistic, but never mind.

[Cybernetic pig]

So after a little bit of research (there's reasearch behind many design decisions in GMDX), and everywhere I look it seems kitchen knife stabbings are the most common form of stabbing (US and UK, probably worldwide).

Some sources:

http://www.housewareslive.net/kitchen-k ... nife-crime

Kitchen knives are behind most knife crime

http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/17124 ... greenfield

A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... istic-site

The most common one seems to be that '90% of knife crimes are committed with a Kitchen knife.'

I left out a bunch of "sources" such as the Daily Fail.

But I still don't really intend to change it, as combat knives and crowbars will do just fine I suppose.

[Shadowdancerxxl]

FUUUUU- Wrong button! Wasn't planning to make a post!

[Cybernetic pig]

^Hmpf, you edited

I don't disagree with that post. I just don't think anyone should be taking issue with the existence of a thug (it hasn't even been specified which thug/s yet) with a kitchen knife, because it happens and it is common. Yes, an occupational mugger or whatever is very likely (although still not necessarily) going to have a switchblade, but I never specified any particular thug.

[Made in China]

Well, I never said it's a bad idea to use kitchen knives as weapons - I just said that the situations in Deus Ex mostly don't justify it. The thugs that are fighting for the NSF rarely carry melee weapons (and when they do, it makes sense they use the combat knife), and pimps aren't that threatening when using kitchen knives - they are likely to prefer the crowbar for its size.

Also, if you look up the 2015 Palestinian Uprising you can see kitchen knives being used in a widespread form - so they aren't rare, and rarity was never an argument (at least for me). It's all about context.

[Cybernetic pig]

And rarity/commonality never factors into the context now? Of course it does.

The context was missed by you last I looked. You didn't acknowledge the many thugs in the game when NY in particular is filled with them. Yeah black and white labeling not all are necessarily thugs blah blah blah, but I'd consider there being suitable context for a kitchen knife in many cases, such as the thugs in the basketball court. Yes, they're adequately equipped already, but maybe exchanging the crowbar for the knife would be good to diversify things as that's all there is, combat knives and crowbars.

All I was thinking was finding a suitable melee thug and changing his weapon for the combat knife in one or two special cases where it'd fit to diversify things. But if it is this controversial then I'll play it safe.