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GMDX Art Thread 
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UNATCO
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Speaking of the clip mod, I think it should be changed to "ammo" mod since:

1. It can be used on weapons such as shotguns, and the GEP gun.
2. Technically speaking, no weapon in the game actually uses clips. For instance, the pistol and assault gun both use magazines, both shotguns use shotgun shells, and the GEP gun uses rockets.

"An extended magazine that increases clip capacity beyond the factory default."
It should probably look more like this:
"A weapon modification that increases the ammo capacity beyond the factory default."

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:43 am
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UNATCO

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:17 am
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Yeah, cant say I ever been a fan of the incremental size increase of clips. A one off modification would be far more suitable, even though the mod can be applied to any weapon.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:38 am
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NSF
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
@Bogie: I highly agree with this and it should be implemented thoroughly.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:39 am
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UNATCO

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:17 am
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Pistol scope modification is another problem.

You can't attach a scope directly to the slide since it moves so fast. The internals would fuck with the zeroing due to shock the g's involved. There are attachments for it and I've extensively researched it, but as yet do not know if it is possible to make unique attachments for each weapon with the same weapon mod. The scope for example would be different for the sniper rifle, than it would for say the stealth pistol or assault rifle.

Here is the most desirable form of mounting a scope to a pistol which is highly appropriate to GMDX.
Image
Image

And with the intention of avoiding dot sights, even though they would be cool for pistols, a scope like this is what I think would be most appropriate for GMDX pistols.
Image

This is because each weapon is designed for different roles with different employable tactics for it's use, and equipping a sniper rifle with the same scope you would use for an assault rifle or shotgun is illogical.

An immediate issue I think of when mounting a scope to a pistol this way, is that no mater when the player decides to mount a laser pointer, the mount location will move depending upon if a scope and mount is present or not. Also if the laser pointer is already equipped, the laser pointer would have to move during the process of attaching the scope and mount. Would it be possible to accommodate this functionality for this weapon only?.

NOW to specify the scope (excuse the pun) of this point. This is primarily for the aesthetic of the scopes and the view that is presented to the user when they look through them regarding how much the view has been zoomed in and what the reticle looks like. For a shotgun and stealth pistol you would expect short ranges, for the assault rifle you would expect a medium range and for the sniper rifle you would expect a longer range. For both shotguns you would expect the reticle to be a red dot with a concentric circle representing spread at the optimum range of engagement. Stealth pistol and assault rifles and sniper rifles would have differing cross hairs appropriate to the weapon. This post is not designed to explore ultra realistic settings and functionalities of real world optics and ballistics patterns for each weapon type, or draw backs of mounting paradigms of multiple methods employed to mount scopes to weapons outside direct effects upon accounted for functionalities in the game. Think of this as a model that is an abstraction on reality where physics is a simplistic simulation where deeper details are irrelevant.

I think this is also an extension of CP's suppressor for shotguns point.

Is it possible, or can we work this functionality into the mod where each weapon has unique sights and suppressors appropriate to the weapon, but can all be attached from a common sight and suppressor attachment. As I think making weapon specific attachments will just make things too complex for the user.

Finally, would it be possible to split weapons specific postings away from the GMDX Art Thread into a GMDX weapon thread as I think weapons discussions are or have the possibility to overwhelm other GMDX art based discussions.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:30 am
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MJ12

Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:55 pm
Posts: 453
Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Mortecha wrote:
Finally, would it be possible to split weapons specific postings away from the GMDX Art Thread into a GMDX weapon thread as I think weapons discussions are or have the possibility to overwhelm other GMDX art based discussions.


Seconded.

Also note that in the Picatinny rails you've found for the pistol scopes there are two rails - one for the above the slide, and one for the below it. It is possible that whenever installing either the scope or the laser it'll use the same rail and the slots will just be blank.
Or, that it'll be slightly less realistic and the laser mod will sit on a simpler additional rail below the original one. That'll make the addition of the scope apparatus more consistent, and won't necessitate having tons of different cases for different attachment configurations.

On the topic of the second idea, an illustration! (As my explanation is kind of sketchy)
http://imgur.com/a/YpZYz
The red part is for both mods.
The blue part is only for the scope.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:17 pm
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UNATCO

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:17 am
Posts: 118
Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Made in China wrote:
Mortecha wrote:
Finally, would it be possible to split weapons specific postings away from the GMDX Art Thread into a GMDX weapon thread as I think weapons discussions are or have the possibility to overwhelm other GMDX art based discussions.


Seconded.

Also note that in the Picatinny rails you've found for the pistol scopes there are two rails - one for the above the slide, and one for the below it. It is possible that whenever installing either the scope or the laser it'll use the same rail and the slots will just be blank.
Or, that it'll be slightly less realistic and the laser mod will sit on a simpler additional rail below the original one. That'll make the addition of the scope apparatus more consistent, and won't necessitate having tons of different cases for different attachment configurations.


Regarding pistol Picatinny rails, my thoughts exactly, but in order to mount the mount that holds the scope in place, the mount requires the use of the bottom Picatinny rail in the pistol itself. If you just attach the laser sight, it would use the same rail used to hold the scope mount. The scope mount features a bottom rail used to mount a laser sight but this presents a serious problem if the functionality is not accounted for.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:05 pm
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Illuminati

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am
Posts: 2283
Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Mortecha wrote:
Is it possible, or can we work this functionality into the mod where each weapon has unique sights and suppressors appropriate to the weapon, but can all be attached from a common sight and suppressor attachment. As I think making weapon specific attachments will just make things too complex for the user.


Perhaps. HDTP sort of has a middle ground: most weapons use a universal scope model, except the GEP Gun, which uses a hi-tech scope, and of course the rifle but that isn't a weapon mod and comes with the gun factory default. I'd like you to follow that concept but make one or two extra exceptions. e.g plasma rifle and the assault gun. Please try to stick to a universal scope for most though despite it going against your realist tendencies. Or a universal scope with slight modifications based on the weapon, e.g different slides or skin colors. That'd be believable.

As for clip mods, I don't intend to change it. I like Deus Ex's weapon modding concept. Many micro choices is more meaningful than just one clip mod, to me, plus results in a steady progression of weapon evolution rather than going from default to max clip size in one mod application. Also means the game's many secret areas are more rewarding, as there's more clip mods to dole out as opposed to only providing three or four across the whole game as it would with the proposed modding system change.

Quote:
This post is not designed to explore ultra realistic settings and functionalities of real world optics and ballistics patterns for each weapon type, or draw backs of mounting paradigms of multiple methods employed to mount scopes to weapons outside direct effects upon accounted for functionalities in the game. Think of this as a model that is an abstraction on reality where physics is a simplistic simulation where deeper details are irrelevant.


That's agreeable enough. Just don't make it complicated. Follow HDTP's lead but do it better. Stealth pistol has laser pointer on top, and a scope with a slide on top too. Glock has a laser pointer on the bottom and scope on top. No moving either around based on what attachments are applied. Weapon/weapon mod rendering is updated every frame for every present weapon so it's best to refrain from making it too complicated. Although that's just me playing it safe. It's probably very viable without notably impacting performance.
Would you even have enough polys to spare to make two laser pointers that are variably masked (so that it changes location based on whether you have a scope or not as you proposed)?

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:20 pm
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UNATCO

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:17 am
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Cybernetic pig wrote:

Perhaps. HDTP sort of has a middle ground: most weapons use a universal scope model, except the GEP Gun, which uses a hi-tech scope, and of course the rifle but that isn't a weapon mod and comes with the gun factory default. I'd like you to follow that concept but make one or two extra exceptions. e.g plasma rifle and the assault gun. Please try to stick to a universal scope for most though despite it going against your realist tendencies. Or a universal scope with slight modifications based on the weapon, e.g different slides or skin colors. That'd be believable.


Doing it this way will not be good enough. Each weapon will have a scope appropriate for its use, just doing things in half measures is just piss poor. Also realist tendencies, are you fucking serious? If this is not going to be done properly then it is not worth doing is it is only going to be done in a half-assed manner.

Cybernetic pig wrote:
As for clip mods, I don't intend to change it. I like Deus Ex's weapon modding concept. Many micro choices is more meaningful than just one clip mod, to me, plus results in a steady progression of weapon evolution rather than going from default to max clip size in one mod application. Also means the game's many secret areas are more rewarding, as there's more clip mods to dole out as opposed to only providing three or four across the whole game as it would with the proposed modding system change.


While that is illogical, it's used for balancing so makes sense.

Cybernetic pig wrote:
Mortecha wrote:
This post is not designed to explore ultra realistic settings and functionalities of real world optics and ballistics patterns for each weapon type, or draw backs of mounting paradigms of multiple methods employed to mount scopes to weapons outside direct effects upon accounted for functionalities in the game. Think of this as a model that is an abstraction on reality where physics is a simplistic simulation where deeper details are irrelevant.


That's agreeable enough. Just don't make it complicated. Follow HDTP's lead but do it better. Stealth pistol has laser pointer on top, and a scope with a slide on top too. Glock has a laser pointer on the bottom and scope on top. No moving either around based on what attachments are applied. Weapon/weapon mod rendering is updated every frame for every present weapon so it's best to refrain from making it too complicated. Although that's just me playing it safe. It's probably very viable without notably impacting performance.
Would you even have enough polys to spare to make two laser pointers that are variably masked (so that it changes location based on whether you have a scope or not as you proposed)?


I won't be following HDTP's path at all, we will be making our own. You can't make something great while you are still hiding in the shadows and following the paths of others.

In the situation with the pistol scope and laser pointer, it actually won't matter visually because I've come up with a solution that will prevent intersection of the two components. Regarding all weapon attachments, I'll determine best placements for attachments when the time comes for each, instead of immediately resorting to vanilla placements.


Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:03 am
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Illuminati

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am
Posts: 2283
Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Quote:
Doing it this way will not be good enough. Each weapon will have a scope appropriate for its use, just doing things in half measures is just piss poor.


It's not about "half measures", rather it is about adapting to the vanilla concept of a "universal scope modification". A scope mod kit that can be applied to nearly all weapons. With this in mind there wouldn't be many aesthetic or functional differences between each weapon's scope attachment.

Quote:
You can't make something great while you are still hiding in the shadows and following the paths of others.


GMDX is mostly all about following the paths of others (The original developers + Looking Glass), so I disagree. We all follow the paths of others to varying degrees because we stand on the shoulders of giants.

Quote:
Also realist tendencies, are you fucking serious?


Eh? Why are you losing your shit? Most would take that as a complement.

Quote:
While that is illogical, it's used for balancing so makes sense.


Just all around better gameplay if you ask me. Ion Storm made a really cool system and changing it in the way that has been proposed would make things worse, imo.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:44 am
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UNATCO
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Well, I never meant to have different ammo mods for every weapon. Just make the description and name more generalized so that it makes sense for all weapons.

(I just came to the realization that changing the name is impossible since NPC's refer to it as a clip mod)

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 4:31 am
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UNATCO

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:17 am
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Cybernetic pig wrote:
Mortecha wrote:
Doing it this way will not be good enough. Each weapon will have a scope appropriate for its use, just doing things in half measures is just piss poor.


It's not about "half measures", rather it is about adapting to the vanilla concept of a "universal scope modification". A scope mod kit that can be applied to nearly all weapons. With this in mind there wouldn't be many aesthetic or functional differences between each weapon's scope attachment.


Ahh, yes. Excuse my poor abilities for conveying ideas that I thought was understood. I'll make more of an effort in future to make it clearer.

So to avoid confusion about this, what I propose that the games mechanic regarding universal scope modification remains unchanged. Where you can attain a universal scope modification and then apply it to any weapon you wish. But when that modification is applied, it is shown as the scope most desirable for the weapon based on it's function, and what would suit it best. In this case the scope I design for it. This prevents the need for having scope pickups designed for a specific weapon, maintains vanilla weapon modification complexity and produces results that are far superior than vanilla at the same time.


Cybernetic pig wrote:
Mortecha wrote:
You can't make something great while you are still hiding in the shadows and following the paths of others.


GMDX is mostly all about following the paths of others (The original developers + Looking Glass), so I disagree. We all follow the paths of others to varying degrees because we stand on the shoulders of giants.


I agree with your statement and outlook 100%. You know that I'm a software developer too, and that all of us are standing upon the work of giants to enable us to interact with a digital ecosystem we know and mostly take for granted today. Since everything gets broken down into binary no matter the context. And then who decided that binary was the best way for a computer to operate? More giants. This goes all the way back to Blaise Pascal and his calculation machines in the 17th century, and Charles Babbage and his Analytical Engine in the 18th.

You however have taken this out of context, as we do not stand on the shoulders of the developers of the HDTP. We are doing what they did, but better and under my design mandate which has a different design context with the purpose of achieving different goals. No offence intended to the developers of HDTP.


Cybernetic pig wrote:
Mortecha wrote:
Also realist tendencies, are you fucking serious?


Eh? Why are you losing your shit? Most would take that as a complement.


Yeah I did in a way "lose my shit" about that comment, as it infers a reluctance of providing value you hold upon the work. I am just as happy making this a stand-alone mod to be adopted into everyone's mods, but as I have said before, GMDX is most deserving of it.


Cybernetic pig wrote:
Mortecha wrote:
While that is illogical, it's used for balancing so makes sense.


Just all around better gameplay if you ask me. Ion Storm made a really cool system and changing it in the way that has been proposed would make things worse, imo.


I'll leave those details up to you, you are the mod creator and have the power to dictate how everything behaves and how everything is balanced.


Last edited by Mortecha on Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:17 am
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UNATCO
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Mortecha wrote:

... I am just as happy making this a stand-alone mod to be adopted into everyone's mods, but as I have said before, GMDX is most deserving of it.


Just popped in to say I would appreciate it if you did that. Make it for GMDX and release the weapons as a standalone mod too.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:35 am
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Illuminati

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am
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Post Re: GMDX Art Thread
Mortecha wrote:
You however have taken this out of context, as we do not stand on the shoulders of the developers of the HDTP. We are doing what they did, but better and under my design mandate which has a different design context with the purpose of achieving different goals. No offence intended to the developers of HDTP.


HDTP is a good mod to learn from: where they went wrong and where they went right, and in my opinion they were more right than wrong, hence why I built GMDX upon it. I don't expect you to follow or stand on their shoulders at all costs, I just think the way they handled weapon mods was close to hitting the mark and that particular aspect should be followed, but executed better. Doesn't mean I am not willing to hear out and discuss your concepts though.

Quote:
So to avoid confusion about this, what I propose that the games mechanic regarding universal scope modification remains unchanged. Where you can attain a universal scope modification and then apply it to any weapon you wish. But when that modification is applied, it is shown as the scope most desirable for the weapon based on it's function, and what would suit it best. In this case the scope I design for it. This prevents the need for having scope pickups designed for a specific weapon, maintains vanilla weapon modification complexity and produces results that are far superior than vanilla at the same time.


Yeah well this is where we disagree, at least mildly, unless some further elaboration from yourself is required. The mod kit providing a high-power zoom optics for one weapon, and holographic sights for the other, and a high-tech guidance system for yet another creates two problems: it asks the player to accept that this little mod kit is capable of providing this high variance of scope type, and two, it asks that all have the same UI overlay, zoom function etc (the scope screen and functioning that is drawn when you look through a scope), unless we make more. So we'll need to discuss these matters further without stepping on each other's toes.

Quote:
I am just as happy making this a stand-alone mod to be adopted into everyone's mods, but as I have said before, GMDX is most deserving of it.


Well make sure it is fitting for it too. We need to be able to agree on direction.

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Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:09 am
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NSF
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Post v9.0. installer
http://deusex.hu/gmdxinstallertest.msi
Please excuse me for hijacking the thread. I would like to have some input/criticism about the installer I am working on at the moment. This installer installs nothing and exits with an error intentionally.

Stuff it does:
  • Autodetects Deus Ex via HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Unreal Technology\Installed Apps\Deus Ex | if this fails then reverts to the largest disk partition found in the system (e.g. E:\DeusEx) ← Works and tested with Steam and GOG and legacy retail versions
  • Autodetects used system language and starts installer either in English, French, Hungarian, Russian
  • Works with 32-bit and 64-bit systems
  • I made some custom GFX for fun
  • Has an EULA screen with a custom .RTF file describing important info regarding the installation process

What is left to implement:
  • Start Menu and Desktop icons
  • Install localised version based on system language (currently installs every file in one go) or make it possible to choose it via a dropdown box
  • Have Russian and French EULA.RTF screen translated
  • English EULA screen to be proof-read
  • Create additional DX-themed icons


Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:22 am
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Illuminati

Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am
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Post Re: v9.0. installer
Bird wrote:
Please excuse me for hijacking the thread.


Should have posted in the "GMDXv9.0 Announced" thread. No worries, though.

Quote:
English, French, Hungarian, Russian


Also German.

I'll give it a test shortly. Hopefully others do too.

Thanks for your efforts.

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Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:55 am
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