Project 2027 - News?

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Brad Denton
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by Brad Denton »

This is the only thread I can find which discusses 2027 in full. I know no one's talked on this thread for awhile, but I still like to talk about this mod.

I played it sometime recently, and there were multiple things which struck me about the mod:

1) I liked the layout of the Paris levels. It reminded me of levels from Thief: Deadly Shadows. I liked how the location still maintained a sense a history, even when it's een modernized.
2) I liked how the Moscow sections were designed. They were huge, and conveyed the feeling of not being safe anywhere. I particularly like the musical track in the background. I also liked how Moscow maintain a sense of history, while at same time still feeling modern and futuristic.
3) I liked the AI Titan. I liked how it combined aspects of Daedalus and Icarus with a Human Revolution-era AI.
4) I liked that the stealth and combat still worked, even when the NPCs and enemies didn't have any audio to convey what they were saying. The subtitles worked well by themselves.
6) The bits of Invisible War slipped in to the game, such as with the presence of the Omar
7) The augmentations. I liked how some of them were combined, and I liked the super-fast robot sound the speed augmentation made when you moved.
8) The ability to pick and choose what items to take from bodies, or to just pick their bodies up.
9) The borrowing of TNM's choosing between gang factions.
10) The overall music of the game
11) The glimpse of the mansion where Luscious DeBeers lives.

What I didn't like:
1) 2027 is very unbalanced. It's extremely difficult to get enough nonlethal weapons and ammo to complete the game that way. It leans in favor of a lethal approach, but then it's also hard to find (or even buy) enough explosive ammunition to take out robots.
2) It doesn't give you enough money to pay for supplies you need, and the people who give you the supplies don't give enough.
3) I've been playing this game on realistic mode, which is way harder. It feels like the mod was primarily designed for Easy skill.
4) There is not way to determine how to operate the remote drone on your own.
5) I encountered bugs which made it difficult to finish some objectives. It happens when I do some objectives for a gang, but am unable to finish the objectives for another gang.


I liked a lot of ideas in this mod, but the balancing issues made it very hard to enjoy properly. The first Moscow hub just blew me away, especially in how it gave me a sense of not being able to walk around a town square safely: more so than the Paris streets in the original Deus Ex. At the same time, it feels like the modders were aiming to make 2027 into a hardcore action version of Deus Ex, with the louder weapons and high enemy damage. Some of the gameplay additions, like how you choose to search a body, I like and want to see in other mods. I was playing this mod at the same time as I was playing through Nihilium. Though I like 2027's immensity and how it pulls off the Paris and Moscow sections, I think I prefer Nihilium out of the two. Nihilium is far more polished, and I rather like the Hong Kong and Germany sections of that mod.

I've been pondering lately what my ideal prequel mod would be for Deus Ex. I still want to see a mod which explores the history of the NSF, or plays from the NSF's point of view during the events of Deus Ex.
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DevAnj
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by DevAnj »

Brad Denton wrote: Though I like 2027's immensity and how it pulls off the Paris and Moscow sections, I think I prefer Nihilium out of the two. Nihilium is far more polished, and I rather like the Hong Kong and Germany sections of that mod.
I don't get how Nihilum is more polished than 2027. 2027 fixes many of the original's exploits, like pausing while picking a lock/using multitools to use only one of those for even the strongest pickable/hackable lock, the pistol downgrade exploit, and such. Also all of 2027's weapons work without many glitches, whereas Nihilum's new pistol has a really bad glitch where you can have two copies of one pistol and not be able to select anything else without throwing away a copy. All of 2027's levels have minimal glitches, whereas Nihilum's second to last level has a horrible glitch that can make completing the game impossible without cheating or using some program that alters the core files and so can break the install. Also 2027 is far more ambitious than Nihilum, what with the altered skill system, new weapons, perks, new augmentations, altered power ups etc. All in all, 2027 is the more polished one in my eyes.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by ggrotz »

Brad Denton wrote: What I didn't like:
1) 2027 is very unbalanced. It's extremely difficult to get enough nonlethal weapons and ammo to complete the game that way. It leans in favor of a lethal approach, but then it's also hard to find (or even buy) enough explosive ammunition to take out robots.
2) It doesn't give you enough money to pay for supplies you need, and the people who give you the supplies don't give enough.
3) I've been playing this game on realistic mode, which is way harder. It feels like the mod was primarily designed for Easy skill.
4) There is not way to determine how to operate the remote drone on your own.
5) I encountered bugs which made it difficult to finish some objectives. It happens when I do some objectives for a gang, but am unable to finish the objectives for another gang.
1. Most of this is resolved very easily when you gain skill with the game. 2027 is very balanced, it's just that the presence of certain "tools" and augs in the game makes it unbalanced without adjusting weapons and ammo in certain ways. Regarding non-lethal, I'm reminded of a very specific tool which is incredibly useful and quite fun.
2. This makes you find supplies (they're really all over). Again, resolved once you get skill with the game. 2027 is tighter with the money and supplies in the sense that you need to make smart decisions with it (I'm almost loaded down to the point of ridiculousness going into Mt. Weather these days, hitting many inventory limits for both ammo and things like multitools/lockpicks), but there's always enough.
3. The weapons are quite powerful, making the margins of error smaller. This is smart with a DX mod, but can be frustrating sometimes when they get the headshot multipliers.
4. One of the problems is a formal set of published docs, but most of it would be pretty short and easily stated within 1 or 2 pages minus images. Read back in the thread and you'll see all of that. Specifically for what you write, you need a remote console/control to operate the remote drone.
5. You've played Deus Ex, right? Choices have consequences.
Brad Denton wrote: Nihilium is far more polished, and I rather like the Hong Kong and Germany sections of that mod.
Disagree. Nihilium is very unpolished for reasons consistent with much of what DevAnj describes. 2027 is the far more polished product.
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Jonas
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by Jonas »

I really enjoyed 2027. Loved what he did to the gun feel of the game. Loved the Paris hub, but the Moscow hub ended up being more memorable in the long run. Never really liked the Omar stuff, but it didn't detract too much from the overall experience.

I really should get around to playing Nihilum.
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kdawg88
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by kdawg88 »

I was very impressed by 2027. Nice minimalist soundtrack, great custom gun models, great robot buddy system. I think the only shortfall was the design of the first level, which I found rather empty and overly-spacious, but perhaps that was intended. In a very DX sort of way, 2027 gives you quite an emotional, humane look into a troubled society. You get that sense of tragedy and struggle as you're walking through the levels, meeting the characters and seeing the surroundings.

I agree about the NSF prequel. That's one part of the source material I've always been intrigued by. To be honest it's a pity it was never touched on in Human Revolution. I was a little disappointed that it focused so much on the cybernetics theme, whereas the original game was thematically much broader.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

DevAnj wrote:
Brad Denton wrote: Though I like 2027's immensity and how it pulls off the Paris and Moscow sections, I think I prefer Nihilium out of the two. Nihilium is far more polished, and I rather like the Hong Kong and Germany sections of that mod.
I don't get how Nihilum is more polished than 2027. 2027 fixes many of the original's exploits, like pausing while picking a lock/using multitools to use only one of those for even the strongest pickable/hackable lock, the pistol downgrade exploit, and such. Also all of 2027's weapons work without many glitches, whereas Nihilum's new pistol has a really bad glitch where you can have two copies of one pistol and not be able to select anything else without throwing away a copy. All of 2027's levels have minimal glitches, whereas Nihilum's second to last level has a horrible glitch that can make completing the game impossible without cheating or using some program that alters the core files and so can break the install. Also 2027 is far more ambitious than Nihilum, what with the altered skill system, new weapons, perks, new augmentations, altered power ups etc. All in all, 2027 is the more polished one in my eyes.
Agreed. 2027 is highly underrated. There's a lot of work done on the finer details/systems that the untrained eye would not recognize. Other DX TCs cared not to push in that direction.

I still have problems with it though, such as the latter half of the game mostly being a case of walking around with an AK/m4 that deals 10 damage and bundles of ammo just headshotting everyone, stealth having little focus, and the skill system essentially being simplified and in ways that make zero sense such as medicine being merged with melee weapons. Also there's a bioenergy regeneration perk that there is just no reason not to get and is more than questionable. There's definitely balancing issues where I don't remember TNM or Nihilum having such problems.

There's also a lot of praise for the 2027 weaponry here that while is somewhat warranted in things like recoil system refinements, a lot of the sense of improvement can be attributed to the ripped counterstrike weapons, where again zero fucks were given for stealth as there is not one new stealth weapon, nor heavy weapon for that matter, hell, I don't remember any heavy weapons existing in the mod at all. Just a fuck load of pistols and rifles. I don't believe there is any scope, laser or silencer mods in the game either which are all very helpful to stealth. Not really a fan of what was done to the weapon modding at all. Skills, weapon mods and aug systems were all simplified and unbalanced come to think of it. The perk system while nice doesn't make up for that.

All in all though, despite these flaws and more, it is still deserving of way more attention.
kdawg88 wrote: I agree about the NSF prequel. That's one part of the source material I've always been intrigued by. To be honest it's a pity it was never touched on in Human Revolution. I was a little disappointed that it focused so much on the cybernetics theme, whereas the original game was thematically much broader.
I don't see what of interest there is to explore there. The NSF is already fleshed out nicely in DX, we know their goals, their fate, their organization. Furthermore they are rather anti-augmentation, which could be a problem. We could have a mech protagonist, but the ending would have to be morally black to fall inline with their loathing of augs, no?
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kdawg88
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by kdawg88 »

I do think there is a fair bit of 'history' to be explored in the secession of certain states from the Union, and the 'SoCal disaster' that triggered it. I definitely got a sense of the story being embedded in the history of the various settings, and this definitely makes the story more ripe for extension in a prequel or sequel. For example, Battery Park (a place strongly associated with America's military, social and political history) being the site for a civil war between the government and the NSF is pretty significant. The whole Paul Denton/Lebedev/NSF plot line isn't fully fleshed out if you ask me. Of course you get to engage with those characters and are immersed in the politics to some extent in DX, but only as an outsider. That or Miguel's story could be a good starting point for a prequel. I reckon the source material behind DX is probably some of the most extensive you'll find in any game. The story really is all over the lot, almost to the point where it is shallow due to its breadth. Harvey Smith actually talks about this in the 'post-mortem', saying he was disappointed that there were so many different characters you meet along the way, and you barely get to know them. I actually didn't mind that and they did remedy it to some extent by putting old characters in new maps/situations later on in the game (like, you meet Alex Jacobson in Paris, Paul in Hong Kong etc).

Also, I wouldn't assume that the augmentation system has to be taken literally. I mean it doesn't have to correspond to the character actually having cybernetic implants. He could just be wearing gear or something. The augmentation system isn't the only game system either. Taking emphasis away from it for the sake of the story doesn't necessarily mean making the game less interesting.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

kdawg88 wrote:The augmentation system isn't the only game system either. Taking emphasis away from it for the sake of the story doesn't necessarily mean making the game less interesting.
Perhaps. It would certainly make the gameplay less interesting though, which for me is bad unless you have a good substitute. The augs of DX are somewhat significant.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by ggrotz »

Cybernetic pig wrote: I don't remember any heavy weapons existing in the mod at all.
They're there, but rare and you got to search for them (save the GEP Gun the Asura carries and the flamethrower Boris carries). I recall a couple of GEP guns, and a couple of flamethrowers. Of course, Magnus has his plasma rifle at the end, but that's not so much an obtainable weapon (unless it's sooper sekrit), though you can use the cheatz to get it.
Cybernetic pig wrote: I don't believe there is any scope, laser or silencer mods in the game either which are all very helpful to stealth.
Probably a design decision on the silencer and scope mods given that there were unique weapons with specific attributes of silence or having the scope (the Glock, Boris' modified gun, Vladimir's modified gun, and the Omar "gift"). Not sure if I remember a laser mod anywhere, but I have to think I remember at least one, but I play so many different mods they tend to blur together. Couple those things with Majestic and stealth isn't too hard.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

ggrotz wrote: They're there, but rare and you got to search for them (save the GEP Gun the Asura carries and the flamethrower Boris carries). I recall a couple of GEP guns, and a couple of flamethrowers. Of course, Magnus has his plasma rifle at the end, but that's not so much an obtainable weapon (unless it's sooper sekrit), though you can use the cheatz to get it.
I have shoddy memory on the matter then, despite playing the mod three times. I definitely remember no accessible plasma rifle at least.
Probably a design decision on the silencer and scope mods given that there were unique weapons with specific attributes of silence or having the scope (the Glock, Boris' modified gun, Vladimir's modified gun, and the Omar "gift"). Not sure if I remember a laser mod anywhere, but I have to think I remember at least one, but I play so many different mods they tend to blur together. Couple those things with Majestic and stealth isn't too hard.
More a case of having all those counterstrike guns but no feasible means to have the mods visually applied to the guns I'm sure. And no, there's no laser, scopes or silencers at all except on those few custom weapons you mention that already have them fitted.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by DevAnj »

Cybernetic pig wrote: Skills, weapon mods and aug systems were all simplified and unbalanced come to think of it. The perk system while nice doesn't make up for that.
I do agree that all the systems were simplified more or less, but the reason behind it is probably because it's a small mod compared to most of the major total conversions. I doubt there would be enough space to fit in say 12 augmentation upgrade canisters without making it look ridiculous, and having the player at the endgame with not even a single aug at level 3 or a half upgraded weapon would be disconcerting for some people. Also yes, heavy weapons seem to be rare and there are situations where the mod doesn't really work well for stealth, like the ambush at the Moscow apartment.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by Brad Denton »

ggrotz wrote: 1. Most of this is resolved very easily when you gain skill with the game. 2027 is very balanced, it's just that the presence of certain "tools" and augs in the game makes it unbalanced without adjusting weapons and ammo in certain ways. Regarding non-lethal, I'm reminded of a very specific tool which is incredibly useful and quite fun
The only knock-out tool I could find is the crossbow, and it requires lockpicking a room in order to get it, and it also requires breaking the glass of that gun shop to get more tranquilizer darts, which makes the cops hostiles towards you. It would have been nice to have seen a baton available for use. It wouldn't be such a problem if it weren't for the fact that you have to get help from the two different Paris gangs to get into the lab safely, which results in the area being swarmed with MJ12 (or Human Horizon) troops. I have next to nothing when it comes to knocking people unconscious without killing them, and it's hard to get through the quest without unavoidable consequences to make it harder. Maybe the problem is that the gameplay here feels counterintuitive in comparison to the original Deus Ex or The Nameless Mod. It would if a walkthrough were available for the mod, because it's a lot harder in this mod to know which is the right decision to do. There aren't even any video walkthroughs of the game online: which is a shame, because it deserves to have some decent playthroughs.
2. This makes you find supplies (they're really all over). Again, resolved once you get skill with the game. 2027 is tighter with the money and supplies in the sense that you need to make smart decisions with it (I'm almost loaded down to the point of ridiculousness going into Mt. Weather these days, hitting many inventory limits for both ammo and things like multitools/lockpicks), but there's always enough.


There aren't enough of those supplies when I was playing through Paris. I am confused by what you mean by gaining skill. Do specific skills in this mod very some items easier to find, or appear once you've upgraded?
5. You've played Deus Ex, right? Choices have consequences.
Many times. As well as The Nameless Mod many times. It's just that there is little room to maneuver when it comes to choosing to make or not make choices that will bite me in the ass.

Anyway, since we're on the topic of how to play 2027, how did others get through the Paris section without attracting a small group of MJ12 troops and robots in the Old Quarter? I at first joined the gang I met in the club, and then found out that they were MJ12 supporters. I played it again, and joined the gang in the secret hideout, which turned out confused Daniel with the Italian mercenary. I'm assuming that and violence in the Old Quarter, whether it's breaking that gang leader free, or having a gang rumble, will result in the MJ12 troops coming in after completing the lab mission. The only way to get into the lab safely is to help one of the gangs, and they'll send a specialist to fix the water-power problem so you don't get electrified and you can still get through the lab door. How do you complete your tasks without having MJ12 go after you? Does talking to the Man in Black and lying about your name being "Pierre" result in MJ12 troops coming into the Old Quarter? How have the hardened Deus Ex fans manage to accumulate enough supplies in the Paris section to get through it all? Did you guys manage to get through it nonlethally, or was busting heads unavoidable?
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DevAnj
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by DevAnj »

Brad Denton wrote: It would have been nice to have seen a baton available for use.
You get a baton early on. Just search the smuggler hideout at the Old Quarter carefully.
Brad Denton wrote: Anyway, since we're on the topic of how to play 2027, how did others get through the Paris section without attracting a small group of MJ12 troops and robots in the Old Quarter?
Don't meet the Agent wandering around ever. Always avoid him. Also don't raise any disturbance that will be noted by the Paris police. If you get an infolink message from Xander saying that you have attracted MJ12 attention, you know that they will spawn after you escape the lab in Old Quarter.
Brad Denton wrote: How have the hardened Deus Ex fans manage to accumulate enough supplies in the Paris section to get through it all?
Simple, try searching around thoroughly for supplies. That weapon shop you mentioned? There's a way to get everything in it without raising an alarm. Find out what it is.
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by ggrotz »

Brad Denton wrote: There aren't enough of those supplies when I was playing through Paris. I am confused by what you mean by gaining skill. Do specific skills in this mod very some items easier to find, or appear once you've upgraded?
I meant "player skill" (the one behind the keyboard and mouse), not any of the game skills. Your first paragraph illustrates this exactly. 2027 happens to be very well done in terms of a required skill increase and learning curve from what Deus Ex represents. While much of what you wrote is addressed below, most is answered by thorough searching (that "tool" I mentioned wasn't that crossbow, and btw you can get into that room without lockpicking it) and paying attention to the dialog (you are told to avoid MJ12 operators, what is a MIB?) As for the gang stuff, you only need to help one of them to a certain extent to proceed, but as long as you can get jobs, might as well work for both and get rewarded by both, right? (the point where you "join" one or the other is obvious by the missions they will give)
Brad Denton wrote:I at first joined the gang I met in the club, and then found out that they were MJ12 supporters.
Irrelevant, actually, except for the denouement sequence at the end if you do other things. Hint, though: You can look at Lucius DeBeers in the flesh sans weird machine if you play your cards right.
Brad Denton wrote: How have the hardened Deus Ex fans manage to accumulate enough supplies in the Paris section to get through it all? Did you guys manage to get through it nonlethally, or was busting heads unavoidable?
Search thoroughly. And that fun little tool I mentioned happens to be in Paris...
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Re: Project 2027 - News?

Post by ggrotz »

Brad Denton wrote: It would if a walkthrough were available for the mod, because it's a lot harder in this mod to know which is the right decision to do. There aren't even any video walkthroughs of the game online: which is a shame, because it deserves to have some decent playthroughs.
A off topic side note for some: I thought about recording more video walkthroughs for some time for my Youtube channel, but still don't have any way figured out to not get "toaster" videos (the complaint I still get even today) that'll not affect my gameplay in some way for the recording software running that won't cost a small fortune. Of course, part of the problem will be recording TNM and Nilihum, too, then fixing the quality on the older ones. But no idea how to begin for right now.

Edit: Decided to pick up 2027. Just to kind of make the point, here's my inventory entering Moscow (hard game). Completely non-lethal with one small problem (*). Quite easy minus doing the third Judican mission, which I did manage on the third attempt (it's tricky anyway). Could of played it a bit better on a couple of points, but otherwise the whole of Paris got done non-lethally to the fullest extent possible (I destroyed both gangs).

(*) - I blew up a bot and caught a couple of guys in the blast. Replayed that section and didn't do it.
Last edited by ggrotz on Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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