Sexism in games (Kingdoms of Amalur case study)
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- Jetsetlemming
- Illuminati
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Sexism in games (Kingdoms of Amalur case study)
Moderator note for posterity: as the first 8 pages of post titles hint, this thread originated inside the by now fairly epic "What are you playing?" thread. It was split out once it got a bit too damn long. This is why you'll find the occasional Mass Effect 2 post here, which otherwise makes little sense. That is all.
- Jonas
Played the Amalur demo, and I liked it alright. Some good, some bad. I liked the face/hair options for female characters, but then there's no body options- every single woman in the entire game, including the PC if you choose to be female, has cantalopes. Every single one. I'm used to games lazily having one body type for everyone, except that there's variance among the men that I saw, and for women even where they need different body models, like with the "Fae" characters, they've still got those giant DDs. Normally when games do this they at least settle for the average size being normal looking instead of massive. It doesn't help that the final plot event included in the demo is running into an elf in a leather bikini. What is this, a hair metal fantasy album cover?
There were also a few quirky bugs, most notably the camera positions during conversations not respecting the environment around the you, so I would see it lodge itself under the ground, or behind a potted plant in the inn covering up the participants, or once the entire fucking camera was filled with a giant dead troll.
However, gameplay-wise it was pretty fun. I just pretty much treated the combat like Batman, with magic as a kind of batarang (a batarang that does vastly more damage than your normal attacks). I stuck with the staff weapons I found for the most part, experimenting with other weapons as I found them but always coming back to the staff. The giant hammers were cool, but they were less damaging than the staff and slower and didn't have AoE. What's the point of being a warrior if the mage can out-DPS you on multiple enemies at once, faster, without even having MP slowing him down for regular attacks? Also it was far less forgiving with dodging than Batman, you couldn't doge interrupt your own animations, and you could definitely get caught in midair while dodging (The "thief" archetype tree actually has an ability to reduce damage while dodging). I'd be much happier with pure fantasy Batman instead of this kind of actiony but far less fluid system they've got.
Still, I had fun with the two hours or so I played, and I'll pick up the full game if it gets heavily discounted in time (or gets hella patches maybe- the state this demo is in, with the game coming out in only a couple weeks, this is so not ready for prime time).
I don't think they'll patch out the middle school misogyny, though.
- Jonas
Played the Amalur demo, and I liked it alright. Some good, some bad. I liked the face/hair options for female characters, but then there's no body options- every single woman in the entire game, including the PC if you choose to be female, has cantalopes. Every single one. I'm used to games lazily having one body type for everyone, except that there's variance among the men that I saw, and for women even where they need different body models, like with the "Fae" characters, they've still got those giant DDs. Normally when games do this they at least settle for the average size being normal looking instead of massive. It doesn't help that the final plot event included in the demo is running into an elf in a leather bikini. What is this, a hair metal fantasy album cover?
There were also a few quirky bugs, most notably the camera positions during conversations not respecting the environment around the you, so I would see it lodge itself under the ground, or behind a potted plant in the inn covering up the participants, or once the entire fucking camera was filled with a giant dead troll.
However, gameplay-wise it was pretty fun. I just pretty much treated the combat like Batman, with magic as a kind of batarang (a batarang that does vastly more damage than your normal attacks). I stuck with the staff weapons I found for the most part, experimenting with other weapons as I found them but always coming back to the staff. The giant hammers were cool, but they were less damaging than the staff and slower and didn't have AoE. What's the point of being a warrior if the mage can out-DPS you on multiple enemies at once, faster, without even having MP slowing him down for regular attacks? Also it was far less forgiving with dodging than Batman, you couldn't doge interrupt your own animations, and you could definitely get caught in midair while dodging (The "thief" archetype tree actually has an ability to reduce damage while dodging). I'd be much happier with pure fantasy Batman instead of this kind of actiony but far less fluid system they've got.
Still, I had fun with the two hours or so I played, and I'll pick up the full game if it gets heavily discounted in time (or gets hella patches maybe- the state this demo is in, with the game coming out in only a couple weeks, this is so not ready for prime time).
I don't think they'll patch out the middle school misogyny, though.
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- Illuminati
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Re: What are you playing?
Slowing playing through the Mass Effect 2 DLC's. Overlord has been boring thus far. But I'm not sure that's just because I'm getting bored with the game.
I am, however, looking forward to the Shadow Broker mission.
Completed Assassin's Creed 2 at 97%. Not sure what that last 3 percent is so I just left it. Moving onto Brotherhood now.
Also, I've been playing a little bit of the first Splinter Cell game as I got the first two lent to me by my girlfriends step Dad but I found it really boring.
Not sure if the rest of the series are more interesting but this first game is just dull and if you make a mistake, it's game over. Whereas Deus Ex, you just adapt to the mistake or die.
I think Deus Ex has ruined the game for me. Or even Alpha Protocol, which I know is a bit controversial on these forums but I found that a really good game (apart from the boss fights ) and I definitely enjoyed that more than I have done Splinter Cell so far. But I guess, they're quite different games in a lot of ways too and whilst Splinter Cell is primarily a stealth game, Alpha Protocol and Deus Ex have stealth elements.
I am, however, looking forward to the Shadow Broker mission.
Completed Assassin's Creed 2 at 97%. Not sure what that last 3 percent is so I just left it. Moving onto Brotherhood now.
Also, I've been playing a little bit of the first Splinter Cell game as I got the first two lent to me by my girlfriends step Dad but I found it really boring.
Not sure if the rest of the series are more interesting but this first game is just dull and if you make a mistake, it's game over. Whereas Deus Ex, you just adapt to the mistake or die.
I think Deus Ex has ruined the game for me. Or even Alpha Protocol, which I know is a bit controversial on these forums but I found that a really good game (apart from the boss fights ) and I definitely enjoyed that more than I have done Splinter Cell so far. But I guess, they're quite different games in a lot of ways too and whilst Splinter Cell is primarily a stealth game, Alpha Protocol and Deus Ex have stealth elements.
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.
Re: What are you playing?
Does assassin's creed II have the infamous always-on Ubisoft DRM? I'm thinking about buying it but I won't if it has their terrible DRM.
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- Illuminati
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- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:40 pm
- Location: Leicester, England, UK.
Re: What are you playing?
It does install a launcher program called uplay that does require a log in but you can set it to offline mode similar to Steam.
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.
Re: What are you playing?
Thanks. I'll pass. I've got enough accounts already.
Re: What are you playing?
@ Lemming
Why you gotta be hating on the cantalopes man. Women who have them are awesome, because then you can snack on them.
*ahem*
I don't actually agree that big breasts in gaming are a problem. It's not that I don't see the problem. I get why associating a sex symbol with all women is objectifying them.
Here's my issue with that though: Big breasts shouldn't be considered a sex symbol in the first place. Women who have those DD's don't deserve to have a part of their body considered lewd. They didn't decide to get them, more often than not at least, and it's patently unfair to them that they're almost never going to be able to seem non-lewd. Rallying against big breasts in games reinforces this unfair stereotype, and it's making a lot of well endowed women miserable.
Why you gotta be hating on the cantalopes man. Women who have them are awesome, because then you can snack on them.
*ahem*
I don't actually agree that big breasts in gaming are a problem. It's not that I don't see the problem. I get why associating a sex symbol with all women is objectifying them.
Here's my issue with that though: Big breasts shouldn't be considered a sex symbol in the first place. Women who have those DD's don't deserve to have a part of their body considered lewd. They didn't decide to get them, more often than not at least, and it's patently unfair to them that they're almost never going to be able to seem non-lewd. Rallying against big breasts in games reinforces this unfair stereotype, and it's making a lot of well endowed women miserable.
Re: What are you playing?
The slowed internet I'm suffering has stopped me visiting my favourite gaming and tech sites. The two places that load their pages reasonably effortlessly are here and my bank's. *weeps*
Anyhoo, before this crap happened I downloaded an ME 1 "Infiltator" save from a site dedicated to the Mass Effect franchise (I can't link it coz the afore-mentioned slowdown won't allow me to even get there), as it's a class I haven't played. Also I don't know if my Paragon Shepard's saves can be loaded from the backup of my computer that was a piece of crap overheating, and I'd like to have the Jane and John saves when ME 3 is released. I've been playing Steam in offline mode without any trouble.
Anyhoo, before this crap happened I downloaded an ME 1 "Infiltator" save from a site dedicated to the Mass Effect franchise (I can't link it coz the afore-mentioned slowdown won't allow me to even get there), as it's a class I haven't played. Also I don't know if my Paragon Shepard's saves can be loaded from the backup of my computer that was a piece of crap overheating, and I'd like to have the Jane and John saves when ME 3 is released. I've been playing Steam in offline mode without any trouble.
Growing old is inevitable.......Growing up is optional
Re: What are you playing?
I am kinda about bioware not making a save game generator. I don't still have all my saves and stuff
"Delays are temporary; mediocrity is forever."
odio ergo sum
odio ergo sum
Re: What are you playing?
That sucks, bobby.
In other news, the Kingdom of Amalur demo won't start: it crashes when starting a new game. I'm not really into action RPGs anyway so I guess I'll remove it.
In other news, the Kingdom of Amalur demo won't start: it crashes when starting a new game. I'm not really into action RPGs anyway so I guess I'll remove it.
Re: What are you playing?
Even so, adding more variation to the female phenotypes in games would still go a way towards reducing that problem. If games (and other media, but games are typically the worst offender) portray a wider variety of body shapes and dimensions, that will both help less well endowed women to feel like they're still attractive, and it will help well endowed ladies feel like their physical appearance isn't all anybody cares about - simply because it takes some of the emphasis away from body type.AEmer wrote:Here's my issue with that though: Big breasts shouldn't be considered a sex symbol in the first place. Women who have those DD's don't deserve to have a part of their body considered lewd. They didn't decide to get them, more often than not at least, and it's patently unfair to them that they're almost never going to be able to seem non-lewd. Rallying against big breasts in games reinforces this unfair stereotype, and it's making a lot of well endowed women miserable.
Either way the problem is that the message is "all that matters is you're hot." These games are telling women: if you're hot, that's all anybody cares about. If you're not hot, you're not worth caring about. It's two sides of the same coin.
Jonas Wæver
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
- Hassat Hunter
- Illuminati
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:20 pm
Re: What are you playing?
Well, just finished The Missing Link.
Played trough it "factory zero"... no weapons, no explosives, no praxis points.
Yet the goddamn achievement isn't given. Probably those damn wall-mines that can't be avoided...
Can't be arsed to replay 2 hours and then try avoiding all mine-detonations...
Probably going to reload and see what happens with the rocketlauncher. Needed aug feet (already checked, then reloaded)...
Played trough it "factory zero"... no weapons, no explosives, no praxis points.
Yet the goddamn achievement isn't given. Probably those damn wall-mines that can't be avoided...
Can't be arsed to replay 2 hours and then try avoiding all mine-detonations...
Probably going to reload and see what happens with the rocketlauncher. Needed aug feet (already checked, then reloaded)...
Can somebody tell me how I can get a custom avatar?
Oh wait, I already got one...
Oh wait, I already got one...
Re: What are you playing?
You didn't allocate ANY praxis points, right? Did you pick up the mines? I don't think either disabling or blowing them up should work against the achievement.
Jonas Wæver
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
Chief Poking Manager of TNM
I've made some videogames:
Expeditions: Rome
Expeditions: Viking
Expeditions: Conquistador
Clandestine
Re: What are you playing?
I agree with you on that Jonas; my perspective would be, it's not a womens issue, but rather, an ugly issue: We need more ugly people in games.
Singling out the boobies, or even the portrayal of the female figure, is what I take issue with.
I doubt games will be able to set much of a trend, since pretty people is clearly what people prefer their art to be made of, and that's probably something more fundamental than current cultural trends...but there's no doubt it would be a good thing.
Anyway, my point was merely that if we're going to bitch about what's PC in games, let us at least bitch about the right aspect..: Don't single the breasts out yo.
Singling out the boobies, or even the portrayal of the female figure, is what I take issue with.
I doubt games will be able to set much of a trend, since pretty people is clearly what people prefer their art to be made of, and that's probably something more fundamental than current cultural trends...but there's no doubt it would be a good thing.
Anyway, my point was merely that if we're going to bitch about what's PC in games, let us at least bitch about the right aspect..: Don't single the breasts out yo.
- Jetsetlemming
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Re: What are you playing?
That's not the point. In the real world there's an infinite variety of body types among men and women, and the average breast size being around a B cup (It's edging close to C in America due to obesity rates screwing up the averages). In Amalur, every single woman without exception have silicon stuff monsters. This is not one character that happens to have a naturally large appearing chest. This is EVERY SINGLE WOMAN IN THE ENTIRE GAME INCLUDING THE PLAYER CHARACTER. Every single woman has a chest far larger than expected, and a waistline half as wide as her chest. This is not a natural appearance for people, this is a sexualized, idealized appearance for people. This is a character archetype chosen for the sake of boners. Their leather belt bikini elf character features prominently in their marketing materials. You can't really excuse what Big Huge Games is doing with their representations of women with this game based on "Well some real woman somewhere might look like that!".AEmer wrote: *ahem*
I don't actually agree that big breasts in gaming are a problem. It's not that I don't see the problem. I get why associating a sex symbol with all women is objectifying them.
Here's my issue with that though: Big breasts shouldn't be considered a sex symbol in the first place. Women who have those DD's don't deserve to have a part of their body considered lewd. They didn't decide to get them, more often than not at least, and it's patently unfair to them that they're almost never going to be able to seem non-lewd. Rallying against big breasts in games reinforces this unfair stereotype, and it's making a lot of well endowed women miserable.
- Hassat Hunter
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- Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:20 pm
Re: What are you playing?
Nope.Jonas wrote:You didn't allocate ANY praxis points, right? Did you pick up the mines? I don't think either disabling or blowing them up should work against the achievement.
Did try to pick up one mine. My inventory was full though and it blew, without doing me any damage since I defused it...
And well, apparently there was something that prevented me from achieving it... waste of time
Can somebody tell me how I can get a custom avatar?
Oh wait, I already got one...
Oh wait, I already got one...