What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

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AEmer
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What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by AEmer »

With incredible foresight I've decided we'd be spamming the what are you playing? thread with Mass Effect 3 information, so I've made this here thread for us to discuss it.

It's a spoiler free zone, too, so cover up details and elements in spoiler tags!

And...that's it!

I personally bought the collectors edition via origin and used a proxyserver adress I found on a random forum to bounce off of and pretend I lived in Hong Kong, to enable play monday at 11 PM GMT, and then played for all of monday night and all of tuesday night and...uh...and I'm still up. Don't think the collectors edition has proportional value to the rest of the game by a long shot, but this is one game where I'll let 'em nickel and dime me because it's still the best damn deal on a game series ever, to me.

Also would like to add that I think what they've done with the multiplayer could turn out to be very aggravating on subsequent playthroughs when we get far enough into the future...It's not a problem for me now, and it probably won't be for me in the future, as I don't suspect I'll be replaying the game in full after 3 playthroughs which will probably take place in the next 3 years.

So far as I can figure, you'll need to run 10 coop missions to optimize the multiplayer influence on your campaign...I don't actually know if you can play it with bots, though I'd almost assume so. So hey, maybe it'll never really be a problem.

Either way, it's an interesting decision, and I expect I'll probably have fun with the multiplayer, so I'm withholding judgement for now.

The game itself is quite good. Very well built, polished, tons of interesting things.

I'll be back with more on that later, too.
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by bobby 55 »

The collector's edition is retailing for $118AU, no idea about it's Origin price here. This will be the last time I visit this thread until I've a new PC and bought the game. :(
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Jaedar
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by Jaedar »

I feel like it's less responsive then the second game, but that might just be post-exam exhaustion.

They also seem to have nerfed your life expectancy outside cover, which sucks because now vanguard charging everything(the most fun way to play ME2) isn't really viable.

After playing halfway through the tutorial thing, I'm not sure I wanna continue, at least not with vanguard. That is very likely related to being too tired to become emotionally engaged(tm) right now.
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AEmer
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by AEmer »

Certain situations are considerably more difficult, and certain ones are considerably easier, gameplay wise.

I think you can totally play a vanguard...if you have amazing twitch reflexes, or if you're very good at understanding the cover mechanics. As an adept, I tear through enemies without shields or protection at about a kill per second, which is much, much faster than the AI can throw enemies at me.

Of course, the distinction is the shielded enemies. If enemies have shields, barriers or armor, you need a set of fall back powers to deal with those, which usually takes a considerable amount of time. First thing I did was to rebind all my powers to hotkeys btw - so I don't have to rely on pausing the game. Best decision I made...got singularity on Q, warp on E, throw on my forward mouse button and pull on my back mouse button...and shockwave on X.

I've had to turn off squadmate power usage, which does slow the general progress down a tad, but with the right mates, I can pop barriers off of elite enemies by hitting shift and aiming.

I'm still incredibly vulnerable to flanking...if an armored enemy gets into a position where he can hit me, he has protection, and my squads powers aren't available, I basically need to cheese it, and I reckon I can only make it out about 60% of the time that happens.

You can also try to just batter the armor off with throw and a couple of shots, but generally that doesn't end well.

It's incredibly much better fun than the adept in me2, where the main challenge came from having to kill your enemies with crappy weapons.

Playing 'hardcore' mode in both games, btw, though I believe they've removed 'veteran' from the third one, so I'm not sure it's completely equivalent. I do feel like I'm made of folded cardboard, though, so that part works.
Generally, I feel like the sentinel is probably the best class in this one. The mix of tech and biotics really has potential - use the tech to burn the armor, drain the shields...and then biotics to finish the job with cascade reactions.
OneLastBattleFGJ
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by OneLastBattleFGJ »

I'm boycotting it for disgracefully cutting out integral content to resell as a DLC. I might get it later (much, much later) and god knows I have enough games right now anyway.
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by AEmer »

It's not integral content in any way.

The bonus content is well integrated...they must've designed the entire thing before they did the voice acting, so I'm not sure to what degree the usual "but the game was already done and we didn't want our story designers just twiddling their thumbs for the next few months as we did debugging"-argument holds...but it's not integral. You certainly get the full story on Shepard without the bonus content.

It's like the cheese in a burger: Unnecessary to call it a burger, and only worth it if you want the particular taste of cheese and those extra calories to be part of your burger experience.

I think you're just angry at having to pay a higher price than standard for the product version that has 'everything' in it. Which is fine. Just wait till its on sale then and buy the DLC and everything at that point, then you'll almost certainly pay lower than standard price.

But to call it a boycott? That's a little entitled, isn't it?
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

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Image

That is all..
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Jaedar
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by Jaedar »

Oh man, that kid. I am so emotionally engaged right now.

Mars mission spoilars:
So, at the end, you have to chase this doctor person. Now any reasonable person will try to hit her with liara's barrier to stop her. But she's immune. In fact, she's completely immune to everything. I guess they REAAAAALLLY wanted a chase sequence. Then at the end of the chase sequence she collargrabs kaidan/ashley while shephard stands there and points a gun at it, not even bothering to fire as she beats the life out of your squadmate.

So fucking contrived, bioware really wanted to emotionally engage, and they did, but I don't feel anger at Cerberus, I feel anger at their shitty game design.

Changed to adept. What took me like... 30 minutes to get through with vanguard on normal took me around 10 with adept. Balance, wot's dat?

@Aemer
What's wrong with being entitled? If you're paying money for something, don't you sort of have the right to expect to get the entire product? I mean, the base game isn't cheaper with the option to upgrade to full version(if anything, the base game is more expensive than usual). You're paying full price and then being told that to get the whole thing you have to pay more.
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DDL
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by DDL »

Depends entirely on how integral it is.

"This game contains all the code but no textures, they're extra" would be insane.

"This game is entirely complete w.r.t. playing through, but there's a missing chapter that is extra" is less crazy (and indeed DX:HR does this)

"This game is entirely complete w.r.t. playing through, but there's an optional extra chapter that is extra" is a well established model already.

The only thing that differs "day 1 DLC" from "plain ol' DLC" is the fact that it comes out at the same time. People tend to view DLC as being stuff that they make AFTER the main game, then sell to you. In reality, it's stuff they design purely to sell to you, but it usually takes up precious time to make, thus comes out after the main game. Day 1 DLC is just a more organised affair.

Doesn't stop it being annoying, sure. It feels particularly egregious to be asked to shell out more for a more 'complete' version of something you're in the process of buying. However...if it was released in six months time instead, it would be widely viewed as positive, coz "YAY MOAR CONTENT".

As for this
I mean, the base game isn't cheaper with the option to upgrade to full version(if anything, the base game is more expensive than usual). You're paying full price and then being told that to get the whole thing you have to pay more.
you realise that is UTTERLY subjective, right? It's only with reference to external averages that this statement has any validity, and external averages are a loose metric anyway: there's no universally defined appropriate pricing structure for games. Hell, there usually isn't even a regionally defined one.
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by gamer0004 »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

(TL;DR: this kind of stuff transfers consumer surplus (welfare) to producer surplus (profit). People have reason to be mad.)
AEmer
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by AEmer »

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2 ... ewed.ars/2

No need to read the whole thing, but the ugly point makes me sad. Here's a pro game journalist who knows not everything in a game can be changed to adapt to the player, but rather than embrace the fact that he can't tell how responsive the game is and just roll with it, he gives it a negative mark... Because even though the ideal circumstance is that you expect the game to be able to take everything you do and act on it, and this is precisely what not knowing accomplishes, this guy can't stand losing control, so he gives it a bad mark.

Forget that I disagree, if his opinion is part of a trend, then what I've always considered the holy grail of interactive storytelling looks like crap to some people, and it's therefore not universally superior :(

Anyway, jaedar, ddl argues the point I'd make well, but I both see and understand what you're saying. I just think its irrational, and no, I don't think the entitlement is ok, because it's not just about the player.

In the 70es IBM used to make one line of processors for many customers. They would enable 1-8 cores and unlock clock speeds based on what customers paid. If the customers wanted an upgrade, IBM would happily upgrade the processor via the telephone...for a price.

In the 80es, HP used to sell a gimped laser printer that was more expensive to make than its faster brother, because the gimping required an extra chip, and then they sold the gimped version cheaper.

People hate this type of thing. They call it hardware sabotage. It's the same with software - every tier of Microsoft office costs extra to make in addition to the best one, and every one of those versions are worse.

But it's microsofts/IBMs/HPs/Biowares product. They can do whatever they damn well please. Acting as though you have a right to the best version of a product because you bought *some* version of the product ? That's completely unreasonable. Get the version you want, or of you won't because you think it's a bad deal, don't. But don't claim it as a matter of ethics.
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gamer0004
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by gamer0004 »

I dunno, I can kind of understand what he might not like, though that's probably my interpretation, rather than what he actually thinks.

What aggravates me (and what might be what that reviewer doesn't like) is that games often feel the need to show consequences. "Choice and consequences" has been hyped enormously and while I love games where there is meaningful choice (like DX and RPGs in general), games tend to exaggerate. Every choice, no matter how small, has a consequence in modern games, and the plot is often written so that unimportant choices have severe consequences. While this is an interesting concept for an epic, it is not that much fun in just any game nor several times in one game. Many small choices have no consequences, or no noticeable consequences, or small consequences. I guess it's "good game design" to make choices "meaningful" by showing their consequences and by making those consequences "meaningful"* (that is, important), but it doesn't really work for me (either).

I much prefer the DX approach of offering choices which don't have much consequences, like playing non-lethally or giving your opinion about killing enemies and other stuff to troopers and bartenders, which has the direct but small consequence of them liking you or not, but which doesn't change much in the big course of things.

*I think less substantial, less important consequences to unimportant choices makes choices and consequences in the overall game feel more meaningful.
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by DDL »

I agree: having every decision result in some obvious consequence is jarring. I wouldn't mind if they had every decision result in some consequence, though, albeit hugely down the line and in a manner not obviously connected to the original decision. Not least because that would drive people MAD. :D

I also totally understand where that reviewer is coming from, in that while a game with real choice and real consequence is a great thing theoretically, in reality it generally results in players constant wondering "is this choice an important choice? Or a consequence-free choice?" and when they're not wondering that, they're wondering "what's the BEST choice???". Gamers will attempt to game any situation that appears gamable.

This is hugely compounded in Mass Effect, since by this point a large number of players are going to have carried their respective Shepards all the way back from the Nihilus days: the vested interest in Shepard as a character (and by extension, Shepard's extended retinue) is enormous. People are going to be very keen to end this series well.

Which is a shame, really: I've found the most memorable choices have generally been those that I regret, or at least really agonised over. Hopefully they've put a fair amount of difficult, consequences-either-way decisions in there (a la Kaiden/Ashley) since even a wiki won't really help players make the 'right' choice there.

However, I nevertheless predict Mass Effect Wiki will crash multiple times.
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by AEmer »

Also, you're correct: It is differentiated pricing. Just like Steam Sales is differentiated pricing: Dealhunters get games much cheaper than the rest of us because they put some amount of time into looking at game deals.

But steam sales are overwhelmingly an overall good for everybody; barrier of entry becomes lower, more people play the games, so on and so forth. And look, I'm all for voting with your wallet to excert pressure on goods producers.

It's just the framing that's aggrevating to me. As though the practice of deluxe editions is some type of mean, shady business practice that needs to be combatted before it spreads.

It's not. It's just a way of enticing you to pay more for relatively little value added. If the deal is bad, don't take it, go play some other game or take a walk in the sunshine someday. You know you'll be able to get a good deal eventually.

re: Concequence in games

Hrm, you do have a point. The argument goes a little like this:
If you cannot tell whether your decisions have concequences, you're forced to assume every action has concequences. You're forced to evaluate your decisions carefully and play in character, because if you lapse for just a few moments, you're going to be saddled with the concequences of decisions you didn't actually mean to make. It encourages serious gaming.

Your counter would be:
But real life isn't serious all the time. By making it indecipherable what the concequences will be, you're encouraging players to play in a specific fashion which they might not like, and in fact you're making the game unrealistic by having so many things influenced by your actions.

And you know, there's probably some truth to that, as much as I hate admitting it. Personally, I think it's a good kind of unrealism. I think it enrichens games and makes them significantly more powerful, and I think it's totally worth the little suspension of disbelief it draws.

Anyway the journalist put it in the "the ugly" category, which is as negative as it gets in Ars reviews, usually reserved for facepalms and the like...that's what gave me pause. It's unnerving to realize people, because I assume he repressents a significant subgroup of gaming, disagree with you this strongly about something you think is the best thing since butter.

@ DDL
I agree: having every decision result in some obvious consequence is jarring. I wouldn't mind if they had every decision result in some consequence, though, albeit hugely down the line and in a manner not obviously connected to the original decision. Not least because that would drive people MAD.
Tiny spoilers in the spoiler quotes.

It's actually not obvious in ME3...that's the point. You can't tell. You can't tell if what you just did will have larger ramifications, or side effects. It's pretty hard to predict what will matter. For instance, I had a casual chat with a former crewmember. 10 hours later, in gametime, I hear a conversation by to people: The crewmember is now dead. She was killed off screen. Here's the worst part: I supported what the person was doing rather than telling them to hide...in spite of being X-cerberus. Because there's now way cerberus would have time to be vengeful when there's a giant galactic war onOH WAIT NO THEY WOULD BECAUSE THEY'RE TOTAL DICKS!...

As for mindbending decisions in ME3? I think you may change your mind and wish there were fewer or less severe ones...though...you are a cynical brit, so maybe not
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Re: What are you playing? Mass Effect 3 edition

Post by DDL »

Well, I managed to keep everyone alive on a suicide mission, so fuck em: if they die now it's not like I didn't try.

And mordin and thane only had like a couple years left anyway, right? :P

In all honesty, other than Mordin and Legion, the only people I really cared about in ME2 were those from the original normandy, minus liara, coz I just never got over her comically wide face in ME1. Oh, minus kaiden, too, since he's a dick.

Thane spent the whole time being miserable and dying, grunt just constantly reminded me he wasn't wrex, zaaaaaaeeeeed was a non-character, and kasumi was altogether too GitS (and emo to boot). Jack I would've happily kicked into a fire, Miranda I possibly started warming to toward the end when she started doing her comical little salutes, but too little too late. Who else? Oh, Jacob was another non-character, albeit with miserable regret-filled angsty daddy issues, and Samara ..ah she was ok, I guess. We had meaningful discussions about mass murder, which I guess was fun.

But really I'd rather have Dr Chakwas on the team than any of those in the paragraph above, which says something.


I could always use more cynicism, though.
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