Cybernetic pig wrote:That is just ignorant. Yes PC is superior in so many ways but saying no console games are good is just....
(I'm sure this is the second time I've used this on the forum in as many months.)
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Cybernetic pig wrote:That is just ignorant. Yes PC is superior in so many ways but saying no console games are good is just....
I don't see what's wrong with regenerating health. When you have a persistent health level system, you get problems like poor medkit placement or saving the game when you've got low health and not being able to progress (without restarting the level.) - both of which ruin the enjoyment of the game. Neither system is 'perfect' - and regenerating health won't suit some games (Deus Ex, Stalker etc.) but for most shooters it's better than the alternative.Cybernetic pig wrote:But I will say that its not just the lack of a jump mechanic, its regen health, sticky cover shooting, hand holding, streamlined RPG mechanics, Cutscenes substituting gameplay.
I believe some of the above can be great in games if used in moderation and effectively, its just that they are usually all bundled together and overused (especially the cutscene substitution technique).
WHAT!? That is the best thing about DX gameplay-wise. You are being sarcastic again, aren't you? Who takes hours figuring out the menus in a video game? Does that mean you were happy with the RPG gameplay mechanics in invisible war?DaveW wrote: And I love streamlined RPG mechanics. Deus Ex was fucking bloated. I want to focus on the experience, I don't want to spend hours just figuring out the menu system of a game.
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This. But yes regen heath is great too as long as it is not overpowered. But it does not belong in RPGs.Jonas wrote:Yet, without regenerating health you're forced to strategise and plan on the longer term, which is great for certain game experiences.
No the best thing about DX's gameplay were the choices you made - but you don't need hundreds of different ways to make those choices. In Deus Ex you had multiple overlapping systems which felt like a mess - I preferred IW's approach in a lot of ways because by focussing on Augmentations they became critical to character development. In my first DX playthrough I didn't even have to use any Augs.Cybernetic pig wrote:WHAT!? That is the best thing about DX gameplay-wise. You are being sarcastic again, aren't you? Who takes hours figuring out the menus in a video game? Does that mean you were happy with the RPG gameplay mechanics in invisible war?DaveW wrote: And I love streamlined RPG mechanics. Deus Ex was fucking bloated. I want to focus on the experience, I don't want to spend hours just figuring out the menu system of a game.
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I am noy being patronising, I am generally confused wether or not you are being sarcastic again? Lol.
Depends on the RPG. It worked fine in Human Revolution, but wouldn't work in Stalker or Skyrim.Cybernetic pig wrote:This. But yes regen heath is great too as long as it is not overpowered. But it does not belong in RPGs.Jonas wrote:Yet, without regenerating health you're forced to strategise and plan on the longer term, which is great for certain game experiences.
Just look at System Shock 2, there is a ton of strategy and options linked to the health system alone.
I dont think I ever played a game with bad medkit placement.
Hmn yes I probably agree with you on that one, but The RPG elements tie into choice and consequence.DaveW wrote:
No the best thing about DX's gameplay were the choices you made.
Exactly. The player's health status is just one of many variables that can differ at the start of each encounter. At the very least, games with regenerating health also have weapon load-outs and ammunition count - look at Halo and CoD which were the first games to start using regenerating health, they were also the first games to limit you to two weapons at a time. RPGs have even more variables to account for, particularly experience level and the fundamental build of your character. Resetting one particular variable between every encounter does not mean you always enter every encounter in the same state. It just means at the very least you'll have a fighting chance - if you're hurled into a fight with no guns, no ammo, and not enough special abilities, at least you'll have enough health to make a run for itAemer wrote:Arguing back and forth about the regenerating health, or the interface (or perhaps more precisely, the result of said interface)...eh, that seems to be just a couple of mechanics contributing to the variability of encounters. I mean, sure, these elements do push the game towards dynamic situations, or away from dynamic situations, but ultimately they're tools for generating the dynamic situations, not things that automatically cause them. As such, saying that their pressence is one thing or another seems to miss the point.
But that is what easy mode is for- to ensure gamers who are not very good never get into those situations. In the case of RPGs there is usually temporary buff items iyou can use if you run into a hardcore enemy when at a low level and need to escape.Jonas wrote: Resetting one particular variable between every encounter does not mean you always enter every encounter in the same state. It just means at the very least you'll have a fighting chance - if you're hurled into a fight with no guns, no ammo, and not enough special abilities, at least you'll have enough health to make a run for it
There are two really obvious counters to that argument.Cybernetic pig wrote:But that is what easy mode is for- to ensure gamers who are not very good never get into those situations.
But what if you've already spent all those buff items?In the case of RPGs there is usually temporary buff items iyou can use if you run into a hardcore enemy when at a low level and need to escape.
That might work, but it just seems like you're setting yourself up to a spanking as a developer if you decide that your game should be balanced both for medkits and for health regen. The encounter design for a game like that would be the most massive clusterfuck imagineableI think most games should be designed with medkits etc in mind, but easy mode has regen health comparable to skyrim. Multiplayer however matches regen health perfectly.
I agree that RPG elements tie into it - i.e. choosing your augs or your skills. What I'm saying is that you don't need both doing the same thing.Cybernetic pig wrote:Hmn yes I probably agree with you on that one, but The RPG elements tie into choice and consequence.DaveW wrote:
No the best thing about DX's gameplay were the choices you made.
I think Deus Ex had more variable encounters than HR because the environments were more varied. I don't think, in reference to what I've been saying, having both skills and augs makes it any more varied than just augs.AEmer wrote:But the original Deus Ex, I'd say, had much more variability between encounters due to the multitude of inventory items and the health system, and as such, how pressured you felt was more dynamic and the situations were more changeable...not to mention, your augs and skills underwent massive changes throughout the game, making every encounter feel like a significantly distinct problem, one unique to you, one requiring your unique creative solution.
This is the main reason I do actually like Regenerating health, because it's a frequent occurance in older FPS games (for me, anyway) - sure, I could go back and redo a section again, but that ruins the fun of the game. I want each encounter to be challenging but I want a fair fight.Jonas wrote:Most people, however, do not appreciate having to start all over on a game because they forgot to save in different slots and now they're facing down 20 enemies with no bullets left and 5% health. That's an extreme edge case I'm describing, sure, but unless you have health regen, you can't guarantee that they won't happen.