Game concept

[AEmer]

I don't think it sounds too big, necessarily, though it definitely sounds big.

For one person, I mean. I've never undertaken a project of this magnitude myself and come away with success, at least.

[DaveW]

Well it wouldn't be the first stupidly big project I've tried to undertake on my own. I'd rather not spend 4+ years on it like New Vision, though.

I think it would be just about possible to do, but perhaps not at the quality I'd want - I'd probably have to cut a few corners. The more I think about it, I'm liking the idea of making up to the boat where the game would split and releasing it as a free "Prologue". If people liked it, I could try and get funding for the rest of the game and get more people involved.

[gamer0004]

If you get this to Kickstarter I'll throw part of my wallet in your direction

[DaveW]

And I hope many would follow your fine example

I got bored so I made the high-poly Flashlight model. I'm probably not going to introduce weapons in the Prologue so it will be the only thing seen on screen constantly (pretty much):

It's going to be my first real attempt at doing a decent high/low poly bake so hopefully it'll all go smoothly.

[AEmer]

Flashlight is pretty cool, how did the bake turn out?

I wanted to call your attention to the game miasmata, which appears to be similar in style and tone.

The latest 3 extra credits episodes also delve into a discussion on faith in games, which is kindof relevant to the idea of using mythology as the underpinnings for a game.

[DaveW]

The bake didn't turn out very well , I'm still trying to get a hang of next gen stuff.

I have tried Miasmata but I really couldn't get into it - their heart was in the right place, but in practice I think the game is terrible. Their custom engine that runs on par with CryEngine at high settings on my PC doesn't help - even on low settings, it's pretty choppy. I'll check out those Extra Credits episodes, could be interesting.

I'm in two minds about doing this idea right now, though - I'm still practicing with UDK while toying with the idea and various designs, and I can't think of a way to make a demo game compelling without ruining what the full game would theoretically be. I'm not sure, for example, I could make the stalker character interesting enough without dropping reasonable hints as to who he is - at which point, it kinda ruins the full game.

I have an idea for a simpler game that would follow the genre slightly closer, but give me an opportunity to demonstrate the kind of subtle horror I think no one else is doing very well (with one exception). Then if it was successful, who knows - maybe I could get to make this game how I originally wanted it (more like Miasmata - fairly freeform rather than linear)

[AEmer]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/show/extra-credits/
Here's the link.

Faith in fiction is a very difficult to deal with element. Generally, divinity often boils down to whether the supernatural exists - or doesn't exist. Ultimately, the exploration of its existence comes down to whether there's a natural, somehow scientific explanation - or whether the source of things seen in the fiction is actually divine.

It seems to me that faith lives in the area where you can't yet tell if the explanation is scientific or divine. Almost all of my friends, when they encounter this, are very often dissapointed if the root cause of what's happening turns out to be divine. It feels to them as if it is a cop out....

....except if it happens in D&D or another fantasy setting with a developed pantheon.
It seems like the big boogeyman is that an almighty god is boring. So long as the god ultimately turns out to be governed by rules, that is, so long as the god turns out to not be all powerful, I think there's a good chance of acceptance.

[Jonas]

So what you're saying is that the Deus Ex Machina is not a very good plot device. Thank you Capt. Obvious?

[gamer0004]

Religion offers much potential for great storytelling.

Some possible themes: free will vs. providence. Fate vs. fortune. Man's inclination to discover patterns where none exist (hi there, tin foil hats!).
Also, religion and society: should certain things be allowed because it is an important part of someone's religion? &c.

Not all these are suitable for storytelling in games, but I think the first few themes (free will vs. providence, fate vs. fortune, possible in combination with man's inclination to discover patterns where none exist) could make for some great themes in games.
I think some of Tolkien's writings would translate quite well thematically in games.

[AEmer]

Spoiler warning :: This post contains significant spoilers for battlestar galactica and MOTB, and mild spoilers for dishonored and lord of the rings.

So what you're saying is that the Deus Ex Machina is not a very good plot device. Thank you Capt. Obvious?

That's not what I'm saying. And also a bit flippant, don't you think? =P Well, regardless:

Consider that Mask of the Betrayer arguably has a Deus Ex Machina solve the issue of the rebellion happening in the end, as a literal God, Kelemvor, swoops in and says 'bitches, this is my realm, fuck all y'all'. It works, because Kelemvor is clearly governed by rules, and those rules dictate that, yeah, he has that power. In fact he always had that power. And it really was his realm, which is distinct from a lot of other realms. He wouldn't be able to do it anywhere else, and under any other circumstance.

Of course, Kelemvor is sewn into the narrative from early on, so he (also arguably) isn't truly a Deus Ex Machina in the first place, rather he's just the big bad(good) and ultimately ends up trumping everything, and just looks a little like one - but the discussion itself illustrates that whether or not god and the deus ex machina mechanism allign is kindof irrespective of the gods power level.

A god which is used as a DXM is bad, because all DXM's are bad almost by definition. But an almighty god doesn't have to be a DXM, and a DXM doesn't have to be an almighty god. It's two disparate things.

Another example: The outsider in Dishonored appears to be a god, but not the god. He appears to be strictly bound in what he can achieve. Could the same effect be achieved if an allusion was given to the idea that he may be an all powerful god? We really don't know what his limits are, so he may actually be all powerful, but the illusion that he isn't is probably important.

On the other hand, the god in Battlestar Galactica probably isn't almighty at all, but the rules he adheres to are very vague. In fact, it is clear that something supernatural is going on from very early on, and the two angels - the avatars speaking to caprica six and gaius balthar - are clearly not explained by any science existing within the show itself. Many have interpreted the god in Battlestar Galactica as ultimately a christian style god, even though he only ever expressed much less power than the Q's in Star Trek possess. But because he isn't clear cut - and because he is outlined as all powerful by the cylons who worship it in spite of never really doing anything that divine for them - because of this vagueness coupled with devout believers, and ultimately a confirmation that this god exists, the Battlestar Galactica god was a very hard pill to swallow for many people I know.

So how you present god or a god, what god or a god actually does for, and what purpose god or a god has within your narrative all play a part in fan reception to the work of fiction god or a god appears in.

I don't think this is obvious at all, and I don't think it is at all obvious what kind of god people are willing to put up with. For instance, it seems to fundamentally anger some atheists if it turns out that an almighty god exists within a fictional world. On the other hand, that's not always the case. The discussion between gandalf and pippin in the return of the king on the afterlife very clearly outlines that there is, as a matter of fact, an afterlife in the lord of the rings. Gandalf knows it - and as the white Wizard, he probably would - and speaks with complete authority on the matter. Yet this scene undoubtedly echoes conversations some atheists who were formerly worshippers have had with their ministers and priests in their own lives. It makes sense that such a conversation would be stirring.
Further, after Gandalf died, he was actually returned by AO, an omnipressent god within the middle earth universe. Gandalf was jesus'ed back to life by divine intervention, and makes it clear that it was because he had been sent to right a wrong. He is Saruman as he should have been, revealing that even fate exists within middleearth. So we have an afterlife, and we have what appears to be an all powerful god that dictates fate and who's willing to intervene. And yet...all the battlescenes are still beloved, and still make sense. The drama isn't any less just because we know the characters have an afterlife waiting for them. In fact, I think a lot of people probably didn't give all of this spirituality a second thought.

So what makes LOTR special? What makes Battlestar hated? Why are the Q's of star trek acceptable? It's all really pretty complicated. I hope I've managed to sound a little less obvious to you this time, Jonas.

[DDL]

Also, AEMER'S POST CONTAINS SPOILERS

[gamer0004]

Also, AEMER'S POST CONTAINS SPOILERS

Are you joking or no? In the latter case, spoilers for what? tLotR? Dishonoured?

[DDL]

In order:

MotB (not played it yet)

Dishonoured (not played it yet)

BG (not watched it yet)

LotR -this one I did, admittedly, already know.

[gamer0004]

Ah, okay. I'm not intimately familiar with those titles except tLotR and Dishonoured, but I thought they had all been around for a while already.

[AEmer]

@ DDL
Sorry about that
I shoulda put a note up there rather than sprung it on everybody. I honestly thought everybody who was going to would already have played Mask by now, and same thing with battlestar galactica...