What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "game"?

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Hashi
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What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "game"?

Post by Hashi »

So I've been doing "game" (If it needs a label) for some time and it has helped me immensely. I used to be a shy overly sarcastic scrub who even at the age of 18 could barely talk to girls. All around not a good thing lol

I read "The Game" by Niell Straus and it changed my outlook on life almost immediately. I then moved onto other material, most notably the stuff from RSD (Real Social Dynamics)

Basically when I started it was all routines and stuff you could run to basically get your mind off the fact that you were approaching randoms and had the potential to get rejected. Then there are all these steps to take etc. Too many to list, but in a way it's basically wearing a mask, so that if you get rejected, it's the material that's not working, and you're safe behind it. The material gets rejected, not you. It's a false safety net that's not good in the long run

So I have moved on to what is called "inner game" and it's all about improving yourself and most importantly how to leave your ego behind. There are many important points, but some of them are not to attach yourself to outcome, be present, do the right action, don't hide behind excuses, drawing state from within.

Basically leaving behind your ego means not attaching your self worth to what other think of you. A girl rejects you? Nothing of it. You succeed? It's not something that defines you, it's just something cool you can do. Never let game define who you are as a person, it's merely a tool you can use. You have hobbies and interest outside of this.

Not attaching yourself to the outcome just means not second guessing what the girl will say to you, or worrying about what she will say. You're not there to get a number or something like that. Just interact and push the interaction in the direction you want, but don't hold an ulterior motive. Don't go up with getting her number in mind and then steering the conversation in that way unnaturally. Have your thoughts, words and actions aligned and present yourself and see what happens.

Doing the right action just means do the best you can do given the situation. Don't complain about there not being enough girls out or other excuses. Just do what you can given the situation.

Drawing state from within means not looking to the environment or others around you to feel good about yourself. You can feel good about yourself, feel like a boss just because you can. Get rejected? Doesn't matter, it's just another experience, another reference point. It doesn't affect how you feel about yourself because you have let your ego behind.

I can tell you it works. You just need to figure out what works for you in terms of "getting into state" and from there little can ruin your night or ruin your fun you're having in the moment. For me it's going on the dance floor and being as silly as possible, waiving arms around, anything to just shake loose. Helps put me in a great mood after

What do you guys think? Ever tried "game" before or even had other try on you?

This is a good link to start off with, exemplifies what I've been saying. Watch both parts of you're interested. (Don't know how to add youtube tags)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FjOev9Vreo

Alternate link to the above
http://www.mortenhakesummit2011.com/fe/ ... p-as-a-man
Cybernetic pig
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Clever Spam pal :P ..nah you're genuine, sorry.

I gave up chasing tail as a hobby years ago. Should have been focusing on studies instead. Women are overrated by your penis, don't let your penis think for you.
nerdenstein
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by nerdenstein »

Women are overrated by your penis, don't let your penis think for you.
After a recent (and pretty shitty) breakup, this is the greatest quote I've heard. :lol:
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Cybernetic pig
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Glad I could be of service.
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Jonas
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by Jonas »

What are these "girls" of which you speak? Haven't met any in a while.
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Jaedar
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by Jaedar »

The Jaedar admires skill of any type.

That said, something about "game" feels a bit... sleazy.
"Delays are temporary; mediocrity is forever."
odio ergo sum
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DaveW
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by DaveW »

Anyone who uses 'the game' is a dick.

Seriously, if you're having problems approaching girls - reading a book on how to objectify them as 'randoms' and use sleazy techniques to try and seduce them is a terrible thing to do. Try respecting the other gender and treating them as another human being and maybe you'll get somewhere.

It's fucking pathetic.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by Cybernetic pig »

DaveW wrote:Anyone who uses 'the game' is a dick.

Seriously, if you're having problems approaching girls - reading a book on how to objectify them as 'randoms' and use sleazy techniques to try and seduce them is a terrible thing to do. Try respecting the other gender and treating them as another human being and maybe you'll get somewhere.

It's fucking pathetic.
Depends on the female you approach. Some girls like sleazyness and disrespect.
But should just stay the fuck away from those types of girls anyway.

...Or all girls. Just become one with the machine :)
AEmer
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by AEmer »

You know Dave...no. That's wrong. Well it's not completely wrong, but it's pretty wrong.

If you go clubbing and you use the game, and it works, assuming you didn't pick up some innocent 15 yearsold, you can safely assume that the person you picked up knew what they were getting into.

Being respectful is not just a matter of being genuine and honest, it's also evaluating other people using the standards you apply to yourself. For instance, if someone manages to trick me into something, but the only evidence they supply is their own word, they're certainly not good people.....but in the same vein, if I hold them responsible rather than myself when I clearly should have known better, I'm being an idiot. This is not some hypothetical statement by the way. This is absolutely accurately how I see things.

So yes. If you misrepressent yourself to get laid, you're not exactly a good person. But if someone is decides to play along, I'm not about to get up in arms about that; they did that to themselves. They're responsible for themselves and their own actions, and deciding to trust someone who's really not trustworthy at all is their prerogative - and who am I to judge their reason for doing so anyway?

And further...misrepressenting yourself shouldn't really matter anyway, so long as you're not somehow bargaining. Just after you meet someone, you should only trust them as far as you can throw them. If you decide to do some kind of quid pro quo, to be perfectly geeky about it, you ought to realize that you can't expect any payment of dues down the road. You better be happy with what you get here and now.

That's why, honestly, the Game isn't really a big deal to me. To Game users I say, do whatever the hell you want - if someone acts on your deceit, I don't have any compassion for them, because I fully expect them to know what they were getting themselves into and to be mature enough to deal with the fallout if they don't.
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by Hashi »

DaveW wrote:Anyone who uses 'the game' is a dick.

Seriously, if you're having problems approaching girls - reading a book on how to objectify them as 'randoms' and use sleazy techniques to try and seduce them is a terrible thing to do. Try respecting the other gender and treating them as another human being and maybe you'll get somewhere.

It's fucking pathetic.
What's the difference between using "the game" and just approaching randoms? What's so bad about using canned routines? And how is the using such techniques any worse then being drunk and becoming sleazy and openly hitting on girls? At least when you're sober you're respectful enough to expect some sort of conversation, rather than saying or doing sleazy shit
DDL
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by DDL »

Aemer, you're basically legitimising all deception, ever. You're shifting the onus of guilt from the deceiver to the deceived.

"Yeah, so what if they pretended to be central heating engineers when they were actually thieves? You knew what you were getting into when you let them into your house! I have no sympathy."

Even if I were to assess your post more charitably, you're essentially saying "fuck you, nightclubbers: you deserve whatever you get" which seems a little harsh to those who like clubbing.

Fundamentally, things like "the game" are specific-focus douchebag instructions for increasing the chances of having transient relationships with a very narrow spectrum of the opposite sex. They might be very good at increasing these chances, but ultimately (not least because they're essentially deception-based) all gains are fleeting, unless the only metric you're interested in is "bedpost notches". More importantly, they don't really provide useful character development toward establishing longer-lasting stable relationships with members of the opposite sex who might actually have some compatibility, and that is (in my opinion) ultimately more rewarding.
Certainly better for the species, too.
These approaches also tend to use a "play the numbers" approach, so make sweeping generalisations about attitudes and so on which are not actually wholly accurate, but will work if you try them enough times on enough members of the opposite sex. This leads you to assume certain stereotypes that are again not wholly accurate, and will hinder any subsequent searches for actual meaningful relationships ("all women like X, right?" "....no, it's just that you've never actually spent any time with one who doesn't.").

It's all a bit...shallow and self-destructive, essentially.

Also what Dave said.
DDL
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by DDL »

Hashi: alcohol is a depressant, it simply surpresses your higher self-control functions. If you turn into a sleazebag when drunk, then that's telling you you're basically a sleazebag anyway, you just normally control it.
If you turn into a sleazebag when you're sober because a book told you to, then you're clearly not a sleazebag naturally, but you really really should know better.
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DaveW
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by DaveW »

DDL said it better than I can articulate without descending into a big, sweary post. But:
Hashi wrote:What's the difference between using "the game" and just approaching randoms? What's so bad about using canned routines? And how is the using such techniques any worse then being drunk and becoming sleazy and openly hitting on girls? At least when you're sober you're respectful enough to expect some sort of conversation, rather than saying or doing sleazy shit
The problem I was highlighting was referring to other people as 'random's, instead of - you know, other human beings. At least if you're drunk and openly hitting on girls you're being honest about your intentions; using PUA techniques (especially negging) attempt to hide your intentions in order to manipulate someone. And acting as if PUA techniques entice "conversation" is ridiculous - you just said yourself it's a canned routine.

It's not that the techniques don't work - clearly, they do in a lot of cases. It's that the attitude you have to take in order to use them is pathetic.
Hashi
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by Hashi »

DaveW wrote:DDL said it better than I can articulate without descending into a big, sweary post. But:
Hashi wrote:What's the difference between using "the game" and just approaching randoms? What's so bad about using canned routines? And how is the using such techniques any worse then being drunk and becoming sleazy and openly hitting on girls? At least when you're sober you're respectful enough to expect some sort of conversation, rather than saying or doing sleazy shit
The problem I was highlighting was referring to other people as 'random's, instead of - you know, other human beings. At least if you're drunk and openly hitting on girls you're being honest about your intentions; using PUA techniques (especially negging) attempt to hide your intentions in order to manipulate someone. And acting as if PUA techniques entice "conversation" is ridiculous - you just said yourself it's a canned routine.

It's not that the techniques don't work - clearly, they do in a lot of cases. It's that the attitude you have to take in order to use them is pathetic.
I refer to them as randoms simply as people you don't know yet. They're people you might never come to know either because they don't want to know you, or because you think they're someone not worth knowing.

What if you approach someone with the intent to get their number, but act coy the entire time and try to steer the conversation toward getting their number. You act as if the conversation is about something else, but then at the end of the conversation you spring up the fact you want their number. Wouldn't that be dishonest? It's not cowardly because it's hard to go up to another person and talk in a manner that shows your interest right from the outset, since it means you can easily get rejected. Game teaches you to leave your ego behind and to embrace getting rejected as just another experience to learn from

The entire routines thing is just designed to flex muscles you normally wouldn't use in order to become a "natural", player etc whatever name it is you use. It's the idea that getting experiences is what you want, no matter the outcome, it's an experience to learn from. But if a canned routines starts a wider conversation, then what's so bad about it? Mainly its meant so you don't need to think about what you're going to say so you can concentrate on other parts, such as your delivery, and not be as nervous about it.

The point is to eventually ditch the routines and then bring up anything that amuses you to anyone you want to talk with, and not try to think to yourself what they will respond well to. Generally people respond well to something if you show you have real passion for it, even if this happens to be card games or board games.

Let me ask you this: do you feel good only in certain types of clothes? Like when you're dressed well, whatever your definition of well is. And all other times you don't feel adequate? If not, I can assure you that you know other people who are like this. I know plenty of people in this category. What if I told you that you could wear any clothes and just own them? Anything you wear is boss. Another aspect that game teaches

I agree the whole negging thing is nonsense, one aspect new teachings leave entirely.

When you're drunk and hit on someone, you think that your normal self is not good enough and have to artificially prop yourself up in order to talk to that person. That's not a good thing. Game teaches you to talk to others and present the real you, and if they don't like it, it's their loss. Nothing for you to worry about, you will find someone else who will accept you.
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VectorM
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Re: What are your opinions on Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and "ga

Post by VectorM »

As usual, the nice guy types like DDL and Dave speak against Game, without even reading a little bit in to it, or actually attempting to understand it beyond the "OMG DOUCHBAGS" stereotype.

Herp derp, OBJECTIFICATION, herp derp, shallow, herp derp, pathetic. These things ave been said so many times and people game websites have responded os many times, it's actually pretty pathetic that you think these are new or intelligent arguments.

Also, there is a bit of a difference between pick up artists and game artists. One is really just about sleaping with as many girls as possible (generalizing here), the other is actually more about self improvement.
Last edited by VectorM on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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