Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Point

[DaveW]

I, too, am a bit miffed at the New Vegas love. I've only played a bit of it to be fair, but it seems to be Fallout 3 all over again which is why I got bored.

[Jaedar]

I LIKED ALPHA PROTOCOL THIS MUCH!!!


Hrmmm..

The reason New vegas is better than fo3 in my opinion, is that it made the shooting at least bearable with the addition of iron sights and that the quests were waaaay better designed. The faction interplay is also very well done, just a shame about the legion being EVULLLZ, as all the other factions are nicely grey.

Oh and vault..... 17? Was fucking Ace.

[Cybernetic pig]

I, too, am a bit miffed at the New Vegas love. I've only played a bit of it to be fair, but it seems to be Fallout 3 all over again which is why I got bored.

Ohhh for waay too many reasons to list . Everything is just so right. To save me some listings, all the reasons Jeadar said are spot on. I'll give more reasons later, but i'll quickly respond to DDLs criticisms before getting back to work (if you can call modding work )

[Cybernetic pig]

The movement feels awkward,

I have no issues with it.

the aiming and shooting never feels very natural (it feels like you're trying to force a non-shooter game to be a shooter, essentially)

Like DX then, if you play as a shooter. The shooting mechanics may feel a little clunky, but with everything else to complement it it doesn't even matter. I feel the same way about VTM:B and System Shock 2.

and I shudder to think how badly it would handle any sort of "platforming" puzzle, since the jumping is horrendous

.
But it only takes adapting, jumping usually behaves different in a lot of games. All I care about is I have the ability to even jump to begin with in this case (looking at modern third person shooters here).

Furthermore with increased jump height, "off" jumping wouldnt even matter.

And it still has that FO3 vague sense of aimless wandering, except now half the time it's DEATHCLAWS.

Exploration of an awesome world filled with awesomeness is what it's all about, not aimless wandering

It's...not bad, certainly, but I'm not finding it as gripping as say, mass effect 3, or even..hell: my current distraction of choice, dragon age 2 (and dragon age 2 is really pretty terrible).

Try the game again. It really is EXCELLENT, and i'm talking about just vanilla.

I'm just intrigued as to what it is that particularly floats your boat (other than the nebulously defined 'challenge'). It's quite odd to meet someone who is so strident in their opinions of which genre is 'best', yet so fiercely specific in exactly which games in that genre qualify. I would've though with your emphasis on choice and consequence, something like Alpha Protocol would be right up your street, but apparently not?

Oh yes the choice and consequence in AP and FO:NV both are great, but in AP, well the action just straight up sucks, and I hate hate hate contextual jumping mechanics. Perhaps I should play it again, I really should have loved it, lots of RPG gameplay mechanics, but another thing is I focused the majority of my skill points for what seemed like 3/4 of the game into pistol + the weapon upgrades, yet the character still couldn't hit shit and player skill wasn't playing any part into the outcome of the game. I had this problem with VTM:B too, but everything else in that game is great, unlike AP.
Everything reminded me of Mass Effect, the black and white conversation system...well, there were usually four dialogue options, but I didn't find the dialogue the slightest bit interesting and there was way too much cheesy virtual flirting. I don't find that shit interesting (virtual/simulated flirting). In Deus Ex or Even Fallout NV every character is interesting and the dialogue system doesn't have this indescribable (for me) feel to it. Maybe someone else could explain- FO:NV and Deus Ex Dialogue systems (and dialogue in general) feel very natural and I find the dialogue very interesting. Mass Effect and Alpha Protocol...I just am not capable of explaining it

All four games have similar themes (Sci-fi, Spy flick (DX and AP), advanced tech), so it's not that.

Anyway I'll attempt to explain why FO:NV is teh shit later.

Also Gamer, I don't even believe I am that hardcore, I just expect a challenge. Some crazy bastards play "Dead is Dead" (self-imposed difficulty where if you die you have to start a new game) for Elder scrolls and Fallout! Now that is hardcore! Well, more like borderline lunacy, but hey don't knock it until you've tried it, but I never will, not the kind of games for that becuase they are extremely fucking long

[gamer0004]

Also Gamer, I don't even believe I am that hardcore, I just expect a challenge. Some crazy bastards play "Dead is Dead" (self-imposed difficulty where if you die you have to start a new game) for Elder scrolls and Fallout! Now that is hardcore! Well, more like borderline lunacy, but hey don't knock it until you've tried it, but I never will, not the kind of games for that becuase they are extremely fucking long

Morrowind shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you play as a mage, it's quite easy to train yourself (simply by making spells that require very little mana, are very easy to cast and have an effect that only lasts 1 second or is very weak). If you train yourself up to level 20 or so you should be fine xD

[Cybernetic pig]

Morrowind shouldn't be too much of a problem. If you play as a mage, it's quite easy to train yourself (simply by making spells that require very little mana, are very easy to cast and have an effect that only lasts 1 second or is very weak). If you train yourself up to level 20 or so you should be fine xD

Yeah, but very boring. Just spamming spells would get boring fast. If Dead is Dead were a mod designed for that kind of thing I may just give it a try. Anyway must run along now my friend

[bobby 55]

Hrmmm..

The reason New vegas is better than fo3 in my opinion, is that it made the shooting at least bearable with the addition of iron sights and that the quests were waaaay better designed. The faction interplay is also very well done, just a shame about the legion being EVULLLZ, as all the other factions are nicely grey.

Oh and vault..... 17? Was fucking Ace.

I think you hit on why I like it so much. Levelling up isn't a grind it's a major part of the entertainment. Vault 34 was my favourite.

[Jaedar]

I think you hit on why I like it so much. Levelling up isn't a grind it's a major part of the entertainment. Vault 34 was my favourite.

Yeah, this is true too, the perks for leveling up are cooler this time around, and since you only get them every other level, they typically have more weight.

[DDL]

Hmmm..my experience in NV so far has been "defend quest, fetch quest, kill quest, deliver quest, skillcheck quest (repeat as necessary)", combined with clunky-feeling combat that means I mostly resort to VATS whenever possible, and magic legion troops that can take fifty rounds of pistol ammo to the face and who respawn all the damn time, all over the place, and who generally instakill Boone unless I flag him right the fuck back and draw them off (and then use all my ammo killing).

DX shooting (and indeed bloodlines and SS2) feels like "this is how shooting works, you're simply not good at it", whereas the fallout 3 games feel like..."hey, shooting doesn't really work, but there you go. Have you tried VATS? We recommend VATS."

None of these were deal-breakers, obviously: I'm an incredibly easily-pleased gamer, but still. It just didn't feel particularly special, certainly not to the level you're extolling.

[bobby 55]

Hmmm..my experience in NV so far has been "defend quest, fetch quest, kill quest, deliver quest, skillcheck quest (repeat as necessary)", combined with clunky-feeling combat that means I mostly resort to VATS whenever possible, and magic legion troops that can take fifty rounds of pistol ammo to the face and who respawn all the damn time, all over the place, and who generally instakill Boone unless I flag him right the fuck back and draw them off (and then use all my ammo killing).

DX shooting (and indeed bloodlines and SS2) feels like "this is how shooting works, you're simply not good at it", whereas the fallout 3 games feel like..."hey, shooting doesn't really work, but there you go. Have you tried VATS? We recommend VATS."

None of these were deal-breakers, obviously: I'm an incredibly easily-pleased gamer, but still. It just didn't feel particularly special, certainly not to the level you're extolling.

I don't find the fetch quests that enjoyable but the rest are okay. I don't mind the shooting after, say, level 10. I use VATS primarily until then and I throw a point or two into Luck which seems to convert a miss into a hit, or a hit into a crit.

Those Legion hit squads are a pain so I try not to get too much on Caeser's bad side until I'm in the mid twenty levels. I have been playing with a couple of mods that add weapons and weapon mods so perhaps that might make shooting a little easier/enjoyable for me. It doesn't stop Death Claws and adult Cazadores from obliterating me and my companion(s) just the same.

[Cybernetic pig]

Ok, just a quick break.

Why FO:NV is better than FO3.

Note, dont see the game as an expansion pack, it is a new game in it's own right. FO3 was a good game, Obsidian took everything great about FO3 and instead of doing the norm these days and dumbing it down, they took everything that was good, expanded on it, added more, and fixed many of the horrible flaws of FO3. Trivia: lead designer of FO3 was Emil pagliairulo, a Looking Glass dev. He (and his team, obviously) set the FPS/RPG/IS open world base of what became the superior FO:NV.

Gameplay mechanics:

-Iron Sights

-Hardcore Mode

-XP rewards not increased for playing on higher difficulty (playing on Very Hard makes you level up faster in FO3, which sucks).

-Survival skill added, basically a vast expansion of fo3 crafting.

-Weapon modding added (though could have done with being more in-depth)

-Pip-boy Challenges added that reward additional xp bonuses and perks when parameters are met.

-Large expansion of the loot and weaponry, though the Chinese assault rifle from FO3 would have been ace.

-Traits added

-Charisma Skill made slightly better (though still pretty useless if you just get 100 speech skill).

-Perks awarded every two levels instead of one so choices have more weight and you don't become too much of a walking tank, but that was probably just to counter the boosts of the weapon mods and pip-boy challenges.

-More and better perks to choose from. Too much to type down the improvements here, and I don't remember them all.

-Alternate ammo and The D-pad weapon swap system given a change ammo option so the player doesn't have to go into the inventory to change ammo. Unfortunately this was at the sacrifice of 1 d-pad slot to put a chosen weapon (or any item such as stimpacks/buffs) in. This would have been better if they used it as a half life-like weapon swap system, only you could assign many weapons items to the d-pad instead of just 7. Using the d-pad (or whatever keys it is on PC) weapon swap system doesn't slow down the gameplay by forcing the player to "pause the game/action" by going into the pip-boy interface everytime.

-Ammo crafting (ties in with alternate ammo): just for the shotgun there is Buck, Slug, Bean Bags & Coin Shot.

-Conversation system- FO3 used a percentage system based on a combination of your current speech skill and charisma attribute. That's right, percentage/Luck, giving way for the save scumming. FO:NV it changed it to a requirement instead. So speech needed=60 to pass, don't have 60 speech then you can't choose that option.
It also expanded the system in minor ways.

-More companions, They die for good on hardcore (This is good they make the game too easy), They give additional perks, The companion wheel is fast & accessible (in the good way), and has many options. They each have thhier own in-depth, well written back-stories, and eventually give quests if you meet certain parameters (most of the time just talk to them often).

-Hunting Shotgun

Level/World design:

-Old skool premature exploration risk vs reward. i.e go off exploring at a low level you will be rewarded, but since there are no level scaling enemies, you may just get humped to death by Cazadores or Deathclaws.

-Not all locations are marked on the compass/map.

-Smaller world. Elder scrolls and FO3 are actually too big. That is why they are filled with copy & paste. A smaller world allowed obsidian to fine craft everything and give it depth, variety and attention to detail.

-ALL of the vaults atmosphere and back-stories, not just Vault 17.

-Dungeons are more varied. They still have the whole set number of themes thing going on, but the difference between the dungeons of FO:NV and Skyrim is huge. They are also better and more varied than FO3's dungeons, but FO3 dungeons were pretty good in their own right, some bad but mostly good.

-As far as I am aware there is NO dungeon circuit design, just most have multiple exits instead. May be a few with circuit design, but you are having so much fun to even realize.

-Not all dungeons are quest related. (more of a Skyrim poke)

Story/Writing/Dialogue:

-Quests are well designed and written, far better than FO3. You do not feel like you are doing constant fetch quests, even though technically you often are. They are also often interesting, smart and varied. FO3 quests were still pretty great themselves though.
Compare the quests with something like Borderlands or Dead Island and they instantly win awards.

-Voice acting. All brilliant here. And even many famous names such as Danny Trejo (From Dusk Till Dawn) Matthew Perry (Friends) and Ron Pearlman (Hellboy 2). Only like Danny Trejo myself out of those three as actors.
Don't think I ever noticed the same actor twice, then again there always was that one re-occurring blackman. But there were more noticeable copy n paste voice actors in F03.

Trivia: Alexander Brandon voiced copy and paste character x in Skyrim. (Look it up I can't be assed).

-The main quest is actually better than FO3, contrary to what most people believe. There are FOUR branching options in the main questline, each of the head quest givers for those 4 options won't shut the fuck up if you press them (this is good. Go have a chat with Caesar he has much to tell you), Each one of those four questlines are longer than the main quest of FO3 itself I believe, although the main quest only branches out around the half way point. When you have finished the game mr narrator Ron Pearlman tells you what happens to all the important NPCs (varying depending on your choices/actions)
The Main stories/quests are probably the biggest flaw of FO:NV though, along with the save scumming and Hacking oversight.
The main quests are still very good though.

[Cybernetic pig]

that means I mostly resort to VATS whenever possible, and magic legion troops that can take fifty rounds of pistol ammo to the face and who respawn all the damn time, all over the place, and who generally instakill Boone unless I flag him right the fuck back and draw them off (and then use all my ammo killing).

DX shooting (and indeed bloodlines and SS2) feels like "this is how shooting works, you're simply not good at it", whereas the fallout 3 games feel like..."hey, shooting doesn't really work, but there you go. Have you tried VATS? We recommend VATS."

Yep you are getting old FONV shooting is brilliant, fuck vats, I rarely use it. The problem is many of the starting guns look and feel like turd. Once you start to get the medium-awesome guns, that's when you start shooting rampages.

Also if you want enemies to die in one hit then stick it on very easy. I watched a friend play, looked boring as hell.

None of these were deal-breakers, obviously: I'm an incredibly easily-pleased gamer, but still. It just didn't feel particularly special, certainly not to the level you're extolling.

New Vegas is a very special game and I shall cherish it till I die. And I am not easily pleased.

One day I will actually get some mods on it too!

Oh also note all the above comparisons were from the top of my head, no loading the games up and looking, no wiki. So there is likely far more I am missing.
I have only played the game 2-3 times (because I like to not overplay the best games, wait a year then experience should be fresh) yet I have the game embedded in my head. very memorable. Very lucky to have experienced it.
It plays like A hybrid of Looking Glass, Bethesda, and Black Isle games. Seriously, can you get any better than that?
DX is the only one I may agree with.

[DDL]

Fifty pistol rounds to the face.

Fifty. For each dude. And there are like, 5 or 6 at a time.


Even gunther herman only takes like..6 or so. And he's badass.

DX gets plus points because shooting feels weighty, crap at range unless you're skilled, but if you shoot some fucker in the face from point blank range, he's going down...whereas nothing breaks immersion like "this man now has more lead in his face than he has...face, and YET HE MOVES. Also, I now have no ammo."

Meh, I dunno, it's ok. It's just doesn't hit the same buttons many other games do.

[Cybernetic pig]

Fifty pistol rounds to the face.

Fifty. For each dude. And there are like, 5 or 6 at a time.


Even gunther herman only takes like..6 or so. And he's badass.

DX gets plus points because shooting feels weighty, crap at range unless you're skilled, but if you shoot some fucker in the face from point blank range, he's going down...whereas nothing breaks immersion like "this man now has more lead in his face than he has...face, and YET HE MOVES. Also, I now have no ammo."

Meh, I dunno, it's ok. It's just doesn't hit the same buttons many other games do.

It's an RPG though! You start with the weak guns. Focus on gun related perks and skills, + weapon mods and misc perks gained from other means, and you can blow the head off of all lower-medium tier enemies with the 50.cal snipe in one shot on Very Hard.

Also, whilst that may be an Immersion killer, so is DX's AI, or same voice actors for all MJ12 troops, or same death noises for every male, or same animations, and so on.

Also, play on very easy.

Also Also, gameplay first before simulation.

[G-Flex]

Also, whilst that may be an Immersion killer, so is DX's AI, or same voice actors for all MJ12 troops, or same death noises, or same animations, and so on.

But those are budget and technological limitations, not intentional design decisions.