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AEmer
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by AEmer »

@ DDL
Videogame writing in general is way too verbose compared to other genres, and it'll probably have trouble ever reaching the same level of acclaim. It's not a medium particularly suited for succinct dialogue; the inherent issues in having the player character express a part of the dialogue gives rise to monologue-like pieces strung together in a fashion that is unexciting and non-inclusive. If any video game ever can be said to have had good writing, I'd argue that it is in terms of dynamic depth, creativity and plot depth, as well as setting. Perhaps worse, whereas movies and plays can these days show almost any kind of scene they want, videogames, almost pr. definition, need playable segments which invariably constricts what the writer can do.

That's not to say that there have never been great scenes, and in fact, video game dialogue is probably somewhat closer to natural, real world dialogue than the snappy stuff you hear in the movies, the theatre, or on television/radio...but the fact is, that snappy stuff has much more concentrated drama. If you'll recall, Yahtzee of zeropunctuation described the original mass effect as suffering from wordpuke, and that dialogue should be potent and punchy. I largely agree with the first statement, but not the second: Videogame dialogue probably can't get that much better than mass effect 1 level. It can get better, sure, but we're nearing what can reasonably be done.

The amazing stuff happens when videogame writers do creative new things with the writing. Like the renegade interrupts of mass effect two, or the amazing setting of morrowind.

In those terms, fallout New Vegas is significantly different from Fallout 3. The dynamic structure of the world, and it's malleability is the big draw, but the overall consistency and general competence of execution is important too. I don't think you can really argue that the individual quests of New Vegas are on a completely different level from, for instance, Tranquility Lane of fallout 3... but that's one quest. It's sitting on its own, and has no real cross influence on anything. Not so with New Vegas. New Vegas has a theme, a complete setting, and instead of just riding the coattails of fallout 2 and blending a bit of patriotism, malcolm mcdowel and liam neeson into it, it's well rounded, full of meaningful concepts and pastiche.

Fallout 3 is half baked by comparison to New Vegas. Sure, there's still some deliciousness in fallout 3, and I'm very happy it was made, but New Vegas was actually a well rounded meal.
Couple that with having different factions assuming control over the wasteland depending on your actions, and having quests that have a better sense of realism and drama, and I'd say the two aren't really in the same category anymore.
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VectorM
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by VectorM »

Because his opinion is this case deserved berating. It wasn't because his opinion was different to mine (which is in the context of what you are nagging me for), it was because it was stated as fact whilst holding little weight.
You mean like what YOU do all the bloody time?
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DaveW
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by DaveW »

Cybernetic pig wrote:I have never berated anyone on this forum for having a different opinion.
Cybernetic pig wrote:his opinion is this case deserved berating.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by Cybernetic pig »

DaveW wrote:
Cybernetic pig wrote:I have never berated anyone on this forum for having a different opinion.
Cybernetic pig wrote:his opinion is this case deserved berating.

Because his opinion is this case deserved berating. It wasn't because his opinion was different to mine (which is in the context of what you are nagging me for), it was because it was stated as fact whilst holding little weight.

Also, at the time of posting I hadn't ;)
YeomanTheCastle wrote:
Yes, it is. It's 3 hours. That's a long ass time in my opinion.

Oh wait. I shouldn't say that. You might dismiss it!
YOU have been Dismissed. If you like first person roleplaying immersive sims then for you it objectively is not long enough to decide! They are highly complex games that change often. It's why I put up with Alpha Protocol for so long, hoping it would change, since it is a complex game.
DeusEx Liberty Island Plays completely Different to Area51 for example.
I like to introduce people to new things, but if they don't want to, they don't want to. Tough shit, and who am I to force them into doing something they don't want to do? If you're forced into doing something, chances are higher than Charlie fucking Sheen on a Friday night that you're not going to enjoy it.
Wait, how did we get onto this? Oh right, Fallout deserves better than your harsh criticism of it.
Perhaps your opinions on it made me feel berated? as you said something I had just declared my love for was dull, fucking boring, and all the rest?
Yes, you should be allowed that opinion, and I should be allowed the opinion that it deserves better than that/the criticism it gets.

Cant believe all this waste of time bullshit came from "It deserves better than that".
Wow, fuck you. Fuck you all.
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VectorM
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by VectorM »

If you like first person roleplaying immersive sims then for you it objectively is not long enough to decide!
There is no such thing as an objective length of time for someone to get an opinion of something. Opinions are subjective, by definition. You are basically saying "There is an objective standard for making subjective opinion". It's pure nonsense. And if it's "objective", can you then give me the exact formula? How long do I have to play exactly, so that my opinion can be valid? 5 hours? 15 hours? 50 hours? 50% of the entire content or 90% of the entire content? If you ask 10 people, they will all give you pretty different opinions on what is "objective" in this case, which goes to show you, that it simply can't be objective.
It wasn't because his opinion was different to mine (which is in the context of what you are nagging me for)
This is NOT what everyone here sees when they read your posts. You seem to think, that if you state it as true, then it MUST be true. Are you Chris-chan, by any chance?
s you said something I had just declared my love for was dull, fucking boring, and all the rest?
Which was just HIS BLOODY OPINION. He wasn't saying that nobody should like it, he didn't start arguing with anyone ad nauseam (like you), because they don't share his viewpoint. The only reason he is even arguing with you still, isn't because of that bloody game, but because of your horrible attitude and argumentation against everyone that disagree with you.
Yes, you should be allowed that opinion, and I should be allowed the opinion that it deserves better than that/the criticism it gets.
And, once again, you can't say you "allow" people to hold an opinion, if you are going to constantly argue with them for having it and trying to change their minds about it. Your actions are at odds with your words.
Wow, fuck you. Fuck you all.
Get banned already.
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YeomanTheCastle
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by YeomanTheCastle »

Cybernetic pig wrote: YOU have been Dismissed.
Brilliant. Thank you.
Wait, how did we get onto this? Oh right, Fallout deserves better than your harsh criticism of it.
Perhaps your opinions on it made me feel berated? as you said something I had just declared my love for was dull, fucking boring, and all the rest?
Yes, you should be allowed that opinion, and I should be allowed the opinion that it deserves better than that/the criticism it gets.
Alright, let me but it more bluntly then.

It's a fucking game. Get over it.
Cant believe all this waste of time bullshit came from "It deserves better than that".
Wow, fuck you. Fuck you all.
Love you too.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by Cybernetic pig »

VectorM wrote:]

There is no such thing as an objective length of time for someone to get an opinion of something.
There is an objective time before you can form a valid opinion (well, there fucking well should be, it's just ignorance otherwise). It's not a set time, but it's not the length of time it takes to do the fucking training.

If your mom was sucking my dick, but she only done it for 10 seconds before you barged into the room, then I would have no valid opinion on her dick sucking abilities. "She was just getting warmed up".
This is NOT what everyone here sees when they read your posts
.

You speak for everyone, covert troll?
You seem to think, that if you state it as true, then it MUST be true. Are you Chris-chan, by any chance?
Who? And no, like anybody else, I am not always right.
Which was just HIS BLOODY OPINION.
If you read my post you'd see I already said that, shithead.
And, once again, you can't say you "allow" people to hold an opinion, if you are going to constantly argue with them for having it and trying to change their minds about it. Your actions are at odds with your words.
Completely twisting my words here :roll: I am going to ignore you as I should have done in the first place.
Get banned already.
Right back at you.
YeomanTheCastle wrote: Alright, let me but it more bluntly then.

It's a fucking game. Get over it.
"It deserves better". It's all I said. THAT is ALL. And I made it clear that that was just my opinion way back.

Well and the DaveW opinion bashing, but that was justified.
Love you too.
;)
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
AEmer
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by AEmer »

That escalated quickly. Uhm. Ok then. Maybe you guys should stop reading each others posts if it gets you that riled up?
It seems like a pretty simple 'I think DaveW is unfair to New Vegas' vs. 'Cybernetic Pig has no business second guessing how I evaluate the games I play'. Both are honestly fair points, but they're divergent, that is, you can't logically reason out who's right.

Yet somehow, it's gotten to this place of mutual rage. If you can't cope with each others writing styles, yeah, how about not reading each other?
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VectorM
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by VectorM »

There is an objective time before you can form a valid opinion.
What the hell is itt then? Based on what formula? If it's not a set time, then how do you measure it? Based on the number of quests he has done, his advancment in the main quest, what?
but it's not the length of time it takes to do the fucking training.
Why not? Based on what? How do you even know it took him that much time to do the "training" (you don't even need to do it in New Vegas). If you mean doing everything there is to be done in the first town, then that's not more than an hour, at most. Why the hell should he continue playing, if he doesn't enjoy it so far? Who the hell are you to tell him, that he can't form a negative opinion, based on that?
Who? And no, like anybody else, I am not always right.
So you agree that you might not be right about not berating people for their opinions?
You speak for everyone, covert troll?
There's some irony in here.

You seem to already think I am just a troll, that's fine. However, you don't know ANYTHING about me.

You've never seen me, you've never talked to me in person. You've never had a drink with me. You've never played a game with me. You don't know what I love, what I hate.

What you are reading here is but a microscopic part of my human personality, something far, FAR more complex than any game out there.

And YET, you seem perfectly content on forming your opinion on me, based on the VERY limited information you have from this forum, wile at the same time berating people for doing exactly the same for a fucking video game, that is not even a slight bit as complex as the human mind.

Your priorities are beyond fucked up.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by Cybernetic pig »

VectorM wrote: What you are reading here is but a microscopic part of my human personality, something far, FAR more complex than any game out there.

And YET, you seem perfectly content on forming your opinion on me, .
All you do is provoke people, wanting arguments Vector! this is not new news. And no, it's not a valid opinion on who you are as a person, but as a poster on these here forums, yes it fucking is, now get the fuck out.

My priorities a fucked? "You don't know me blah blah, my avatar is a minuscule representative of my complex and mysterious personality" lol shut the fuck up covert troll, you are just as hypocritical as I am, even more so.

My priorities are to revive radish X and take over the internet, yet I enjoy modding on the side ;)

Got damn it, Ignore!
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DDentonas
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by DDentonas »

Cybernetic pig wrote:
If your mom was sucking my dick, but she only done it for 10 seconds before you barged into the room, then I would have no valid opinion on her dick sucking abilities. "She was just getting warmed up".
Well that was uncalled for. Maybe a fuck you all was not a banable offence, but that kind of talk without a severe provocation is just not acceptable. (Then again maybe it's the norm here. I don't come all that often in this forum, so feel free to ignore me)
YK: And you... you... are a bad actress.
(unknown sound)
MC: And you have one less finger...
Cybernetic pig
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Uncalled for? Not really, he is always at it. He rarely ever contributes other than to feed his covert trolling habit, or whatever the reason he feels like being an ass for.

And I was just using it as an analogy ;)

And also, you will be added to the ignore list yourself. Each post you have made has pissed me off too, I was just too polite to say anything.
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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YeomanTheCastle
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by YeomanTheCastle »

What the fuck.
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VectorM
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by VectorM »

"You don't know me blah blah, my avatar is a minuscule representative of my complex and mysterious personality" lol shut the fuck up covert troll, you are just as hypocritical as I am, even more so.
I see you obviously didn't get the point of that comment.
Cybernetic pig
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Re: Rumour: Disney Is Closing Warren Spector’s Junction Poin

Post by Cybernetic pig »

VectorM wrote:
I see you obviously didn't get the point of that comment.
I didn't? You'd know that would you? Like you so often do, I chose to not answer it directly.

Also You have yet to get many of mine. You just blank them, and then post your one sentence. I know your game, I just don't understand why you do it. Personal problems I guess.

Can you go back to trolling Youtube vids please? It's where you belong.
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