Warren Spector farts hot air out of his mouth

[Cybernetic pig]

How the hell can you consider 80$ (a price tag that was COMMON 15-20 years ago) to be "double the price"? You can't even do basic math now? And again, I though developers were just looking to make a buck, not matter how low it was, yet they can't increas the price with even 10$, let alone 20$?

Ninja edited you, I didn't look properly, was thinking pounds not dollars. Of course I can do basic math otherwise how the fuck would I have been able to make a damn mod?

Many publishers are looking to make a quick buck, and many devs comply. Once again this is not new news.

Just shut the fuck up.

[gamer0004]

Right, so you are delusional, instead of just unimformed, sounds about right.

Not only can you not back up that statement, it doesnt make sense with the simple fact, that overall, games are cheaper. Why don't games cost 80$, CP? I thought they just wanted t3h m0neyz more than ever! Also, what Jonas said.

Now, I knew your grasp of basic economics was somewhat insufficient, but are you really trying to argue you don't understand the concept of profit maximisation? A higher price does not indicate higher profits, and hence higher prices do not indicate higher greediness. Conversely, lower prices do not indicate less greed or lower profits.

Profits for the big companies are fairly low anyway. Most big publishers are making low profits or losses. The money grabbing part is to some extent driven by desperation rather than greediness, but the result is, of course, the same and not exactly laudable.

[Cybernetic pig]

The money grabbing part is to some extent driven by desperation rather than greediness, but the result is, of course, the same and not exactly laudable.

But not for EA and Activision though, but because they do it and dominate, others have to follow suit to keep competing. Well they don't HAVE to, but many do.

Activision are secure for sure from Call of Duty and the like.

[VectorM]

Now, I knew your grasp of basic economics was somewhat insufficient, but are you really trying to argue you don't understand the concept of profit maximisation? A higher price does not indicate higher profits, and hence higher prices do not indicate higher greediness. Conversely, lower prices do not indicate less greed or lower profits.

The point was, that there is no real indicator that would show more or less desire to maximize profits. Since he has NO real clue how developers or business people act, he can't really reasonably claim one way or the other. And the only thing that a person like him could look at, would be fairly simple things, like prices.

He has NO idea what he is talking about, to be completely blunt.

But not for EA and Activision though, but because they do it and dominate, others have to follow suit to keep competing.

Except that publishers in general are losing more and more power and EA especially is doing pretty bad lately.

Now, I knew your grasp of basic economics was somewhat insufficient,

I know you think you are the shit with that worhtless economics degree you are trying to get, gamer, no need to remind me of that . And you demonstrated how "much" you know on the topic f economics when argued ona different forum

[gamer0004]

@CP: Contrary to popular belief, EA has shown less than stellar performance. It made a net loss in 4 out of the past 5 years (!): Annual report 2012, p. 112 (or p. 28 of the 10-K).

@VectorM: that was certainly not clear from your post. But it's true that "money grabbing" is more or less impossible to measure. There are some trends that can be discerned, however. For example, in the Netherlands it has been the norm for a long time for producers to simply make good products. They not so much maximised profits but rather tried to make the best products they could or make new or different products. It was enough to make a little profit.
It's also clear from the language used in that time: a sugar cartel (which, btw, was completely legal) agreed to give 50% of "surplus profit" to farmers. The whole idea of "surplus profits" is of course ridiculous from the viewpoint of profit maximisation, but not from the viewpoint of companies, businessmen and investors in much of the 20th century.
On this topic I'm more knowledgeable of the Netherlands than other countries, but this phenomenon was not limited to the Netherlands as far as I know, though there were differences in its extent.

Edit due to your edit: far enough, I started insulting you. But stupidity breeds stupidity, and it's difficult for one person to convert a sea of academically challenged people to a better viewpoint.
Edit #2: I'm too hasty. Insults are useless and in bad taste. I take back my words and I apologise.

[Cybernetic pig]

The point was, that there is no real indicator that would show more or less desire to maximize profits. Since he has NO real clue how developers or business people act, he can't really reasonably claim one way or the other. And the only thing that a person like him could look at, would be fairly simple things, like prices.

He has NO idea what he is talking about, to be completely blunt.

That's a lot of assumptions there. YOU do not know what you are talking about, clearly.

This thread has just been you trying to catch me out but failing every time, yet you say I have no clue?

This thread has got ugly enough, and I have seem to be let off, I'd like to keep it that way.
Please stop the vendetta, haven't you done enough? Why do you have to be an asshole all the time?

Also, don't try to deflect YOUR stupid mistake onto me in an attempt to make me look stupid and draw the heat away from you

EA especially is doing pretty bad lately.

Yeah, lately, because they have gained themselves a bad reputation that has built over time, and MOH: Warfighter flopped big time.
EA will pull through, unfortunately.

[Jonas]

Looks like I messed up the ban. That's what we get for banning people so rarely. Hopefully this time it worked. Hey, if you can still post here, CP, feel free to let us know so we can try something else.

[Hashi]

Looks like I messed up the ban. That's what we get for banning people so rarely. Hopefully this time it worked. Hey, if you can still post here, CP, feel free to let us know so we can try something else.

We have CP on this forum? Man that's disturbing...

[kdawg88]

Looks like I messed up the ban. That's what we get for banning people so rarely. Hopefully this time it worked. Hey, if you can still post here, CP, feel free to let us know so we can try something else.

We have CP on this forum? Man that's disturbing...

D: Gross, good thing it was banned!

[DDL]

I miss El Cid.

Those were the good days.

[AEmer]

I would probably also resort to telling people to fuck off if they told me I was tremendously annoying in an altogether general sense.
I'm not sure that's relevant to anything, tho. See you in a week CP, if it worked.

Also, if anybody has time, I would like to hear the story of ZylonBane. It sounds interesting.

[Jaedar]

Also, if anybody has time, I would like to hear the story of ZylonBane. It sounds interesting.

It was before my time I'm afraid.

[YeomanTheCastle]

Baby Jesus Christ is bawling his fucking eyes out right now.

[CrocMagnum]

During the Renaissance societies were centered around The Human Being! Today's society is centered around currency!

Are you kidding? During the rennaissance, societies were centered around indentured servitude, where people were permanently tied to their place of birth and forced to work insane hours for land owners just to sustain themselves and their families. During the rennaissance art was something that happened because of rich and powerful patrons who funded artists to essentially work for them, and the idea of art as anything other than a craft would be considered quaint and fantastical by those who practiced it back then.

The commercial needs of art and entertainment have always been a factor, and in fact I'd say they've only lessened over time - and I see no evidence that commercial motives are more present now than they were 10, 20, or 30 years ago. More people are able to make money doing videogames now than was the case back then, but the people who can live off of game development now are if anything only more likely to do it for their own amusement and creative fulfilment than for commercial interests. Independent game development as a concept has only really come into being over the past ten years, and that part of the industry is doing better than ever right now...

Well thought post, Jonas. But why do you question the fact we're living in a materialistic world? This acquisitive mentality has seeped into every aspect of lives nowadays, even videogames (some DLCs - not all of them - are just daylight robbery, some unfinished games shouldn't have been released prematurally,...). Now you said, and rightly so, that the Renaissance was also a period of indentured servitude. But I was more aiming at the societal (global) aspect of things. Now here's my whole point:

- Medieval societies were focused on God (you can see it the way cities were built around Churches)
- During the Renaissance societies focused on The Human Being,
- Modern Day Society is centererd on money (Banks and Insurance Companies are in the city center nowadays)

Now I'll let everyone the judge on which period was/is better. But There's one thing I don't like: when money takes precedence over the rest.

Man! I can't believe we disagree. But that's fine, Jonas:

Next time I see you I'll Riot-Prod you from the b**t and steal your augmentation canister. THAT will teach you!

[gamer0004]

What a shame CP got banned, his swearing at Jonas (and others) was absolutely uncalled for, but I also feel the situation here would've been altogether improved if people looked past his style of writing and stopped bitching about it.

@AEmer: basically, ZylonBane had some good contributions to the forums. He had some thorough and well thought out criticism on HDTP models and skins. Unfortunately, he spent less time thinking about how to communicate said criticism, and after a while the flaming exploded and he got banned and never returned.