The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

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Jaedar
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Jaedar »

Jonas wrote:This is how surprised I am: :?
I... don't know what that means?

I assume its a dig at "Jaedar hates all games", but I don't really get the logical chain supposed to bring me there?
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by LeoBad »

Well, 120 hrs of a good game is not something to frown upon. If it's good it's good. I definitely am a "completionist" when the story is good and time allows.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Hir »

Don't you think the long cut scenes broke the flow of the game, Witcher 3, up too much. The interactions you had in some of these very long cut scenes were pointless. You have two conversation choices, pick one and a further cut scene ensues, then your are back to the two conversation options and you select the other one and another cut scene ensues. I think these conversation 'options' were only put in there to give the illusion of choice as an average gamer, imho, doesn't want to sit through a quarter of an hour cut scene, they'd rather be playing the game. A short concise cut scene without false conversation choices would have been much more satisfying. I thought the first Witcher was a much better game and had more atmosphere.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Hashi »

http://au.ign.com/videos/2015/08/06/deu ... x15-part-4

lol looks pretty cool, but maybe a bit heavy handed in its approach with the theme
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Jonas »

Hir wrote:Don't you think the long cut scenes broke the flow of the game, Witcher 3, up too much. The interactions you had in some of these very long cut scenes were pointless. You have two conversation choices, pick one and a further cut scene ensues, then your are back to the two conversation options and you select the other one and another cut scene ensues. I think these conversation 'options' were only put in there to give the illusion of choice as an average gamer, imho, doesn't want to sit through a quarter of an hour cut scene, they'd rather be playing the game.
A very substantial portion of those choices do make a difference though, even if it doesn't come back to you until much later or even in the very end of the game. Other choices are just there for roleplaying purposes, so you can set the direction you want Geralt to go with the conversation, and then he'll take it from there - it's pretty similar to Deus Ex 1 in that regard.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Hashi wrote: lol looks pretty cool
Maybe. Doesn't look very much like a Deus Ex game though. The majority of the gameplay shown so far looks like a somewhat less minimal Gears of War/R6: Vegas or what have you. And the slow time augmentation stirs irrational anger within me.

There is only one Deus Ex game in principle. The rest are worth a play at least, but they misrepresent the original and the few very special games like it.

AAA games of today are made with people like this behind it:
Spidey thought
Hey Amy - just a couple of rando thoughts from 35,000 LAX-JFK:

- A rising trend we see with Millennials are the really extreme forms of experiential exercise like Tough Mudder (a sort of filthy triathalon), the Color Run and even things like Hot Power Yoga, veganism etc. Millennials will often post "N.B.D." on their social media after doing it , as in No Big Deal, also known as the "humble brag".....wondering if Spidey could get into that in some way....he's super athletic, bendy, strong, intense....and it's all NBD to him, of course.


- EDM (electronic dance music) is the defining music for Millennials. Wondering if there's an EDM angle somewhere with Spidey? His movements are beautiful, would be awesome with a killer DJ behind it

- Snapchat just launched a "story" functionality, which is sort of "day in the life of me" told in a series of snapchats that expire after 24 hours. It has a very VIP quality about it, since invitation only. Getting invited into Spidey's Snapchat circle would be huge, and very buzzworthy and cool.


Also on American Hustle, I was thinking (and it may be way too late for this), it would be awesome to get all the cool fashion brands to do a huge 70s style collab.....Urban Outfitters, Free People, American Apparel etc. They're sort of leaning 70's already, Macklemore hitting it a bit with Thrift Shop style etc. Would be interesting for Am Hustle to be the name behind that.

Hope not too random! N
And there's that irrational anger stirring again. I should direct it into workout sessions or something, rather than just Deus Ex evolution.
The cultural & social manipulation pisses me off. All mainstream entertainment targets the "millennials" and over time it has curdled into a melting pot of tasteless, classless shit. Everything must feature rhythm-less music (and I love EDM, but that's gone to shit too), references to social media trends, and most importantly, be easy to consume. Mainstream media in all its forms has seriously took a nose dive the past 10 or so years.
Music artists must be young, with content aimed at young people. Give me five newcomer music artists aged 30+ in the charts over the past few years. You can't. They don't get signed anymore.

I'll end the rant there for my own sake. Back to programming.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Cybernetic pig »

JC DENTON
I couldn't help overhearing about your son.

JOSHUA
They have us, yes... Majestic 12, whoever they are... When you have the youth,
you have everything.
^Talking in military terms primarily, but it applies to everything.

By all means, targeting youth/taking young consumers into consideration is nothing new, however it is sickeningly prevalent today, and not only that, but the melting pot. I am of the targeted age group (14-25) and I can't fucking stand all this classless, brainless, shallow, pandering shit. Picture what will the result be when the "millennials" become the content producers?
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Cybernetic pig »

http://imgur.com/4Coqmne

I have little faith anymore. Except faith in myself to do DX justice.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Made in China »

There's something to be said here about being at-most brain-dead in the only interactive medium, but I can't find the right phrasing.

And I think Invisible War came pretty close to Deus Ex, at least in vision. They fucked it up, but it was ambitious and try to produce something that wasn't bound by the limitation of the technology at the time (namely Xbox and its controller).

I miss the old days, when your graphics couldn't be very good and you couldn't have an open world because you didn't have enough RAM. The limitations not only focused game development on core mechanics and story, they also set boundaries to be by/surpassed by ingenuity rather than voids to be filled with mediocrity. Now every game has to be open world with high end graphics, and even indie games are sometimes in development for years because of "pixel art for every block". I think this is one of the reasons why AAA gaming is due to collapse on itself.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Made in China wrote: And I think Invisible War came pretty close to Deus Ex, at least in vision.


No way. It is half the game DX1 is (quite literally too - half the content just isn't there), although it does still have its merits.
They fucked it up, but it was ambitious...
Hmm? Ambitious as a business venture or art & design piece? Definitely the former, but that backfired when the fan base kicked up a shitstorm of disgust (or so I hear).
The game was a massive design compromise.
...and try to produce something that wasn't bound by the limitation of the technology at the time (namely Xbox and its controller).
There is no denying going multi-plat diluted IW as it would any game, however the controller had little to do with it (see Arx Fatalis, a much better immersive Sim than IW which made little design compromise and was Multiplatform), and furthermore consoles don't have to == shitty design decisions (uni ammo, crappy RPG systems, simplified inventory, dumbing down of just about anything). IW was a clear sellout, and one of the first of its kind.
The consoles got the majority of the flak when the blame in reality lied with Ion Storm. Ever took a look at the Morrowind port on the Xbox? It was the same game, which was 500% bigger and more complex than IW.
Made in China wrote:I think this is one of the reasons why AAA gaming is due to collapse on itself.
Not a chance. AAA game dev is a powerhouse in the entertainment industry. It supersedes even Hollywood. It is like this and it ain't going away.

IW stood for the status quo.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Jonas »

Please don't let OTP become like the RPG Codex or TTLG, a forum for people who have let their nostalgia turn into jadedness and overtake their love of new experiences.

I can't sit here and tell you what to like. But at least try to keep moving, keep picking up new things, keep trying new games and judging them for what they are.

I don't mean to target you in particular MCP, but if you ever find yourself writing a sentence like "Mainstream media in all its forms has seriously took a nose dive the past 10 or so years" maybe your problem is that you've somewhat lost your sense of perspective. Mainstream media has always by and large been shallow in that it must by nature appeal to the lowest common denominator. Only the work that rises above the sludge despite it all stands the test of time, you look back and that's what you see: the stuff of enough quality to survive. Mainstream media in the 90's was the Spice Girls and Beverly Hills. Mainstream media in the 00's was Survivor and Britney Spears.
Picture what will the result be when the "millennials" become the content producers?
Pretty sure you're a millennial. I am. Read the definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

Any talk that uses "generations" as a foundation for debate loses its validity so fast. It's no different from talking about how "men are all like this" or "Asians are all like that". Tediously enormous generalisations.

-

I can't stay part of this community if it turns into the RPG Codex. It's too reactionary, too focused on the past. It's cramping my creativity, holding me back. I gotta make new shit!
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Jonas wrote: Mainstream media has always by and large been shallow in that it must by nature appeal to the lowest common denominator.
To varying degrees. These days a line has been crossed.
I can't stay part of this community if it turns into the RPG Codex. It's too reactionary, too focused on the past. It's cramping my creativity, holding me back. I gotta make new shit!
Why does a focus on the past cramp your creativity? Both TNM & Expeditions were comprised primarily of old design principles, were they not? When I mod/design/program, I'm thinking of pushing game design. I'm looking to the future, although sadly doing so on a shitty old engine, but that is how it must be.
Maybe my perception has turned bitter and I'm always looking for the worst when it comes to other forms of entertainment, but for video games I absolutely cannot accept that this is how it has always been, because it hasn't.
Please don't let OTP become like the RPG Codex or TTLG, a forum for people who have let their nostalgia turn into jadedness and overtake their love of new experiences.
I'm always seeking new experiences, primarily in the form of old content I missed. The past is the biggest entertainment library available after all. The majority of modern experiences I do not enjoy, but there are always exceptions.

Show me, where are the Deus Ex's of today? The great variety of arts I fell in love with are not made anymore, and little noteworthy has substituted it. This is what drives me daily. If I were satisfied with what the Eidos Montreals, the Arkanes, the Irrationals and such were putting out I wouldn't feel it necessary to slowly but surely push the Immersive Sim along its natural course myself.

You don't need to worry about this place becoming RPG Codex, at least not in full. I see human qualities in the members here, so everything will be fine.

I do think that when it comes to game design it is important to look to the past & the present, with the aim of creating something special for the future. When I do draw from the present though, it is almost always in relation to cosmetic design. I see little else worthy.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Also, I am aware of the shallow crap of the 90's, but there was a balance, and little of it was truly distasteful & absurd.

Rando spidey thought:
I do think us jaded types do not give enough credit & support to those that aren't in on the common denominator social media manipulated teenager pie abuse though.

Hmm, another interesting find, this time positive, yet in relation to the past: http://imgur.com/US9sQwP
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Made in China »

Jonas, I highly recommend you to watch this TED talk: Phil Hansen - Embrace the Shake

The limitations were once clear, so it was relatively easy to work within their confines and either do something unexpected and innovative or push the limits and do more, better. Nowadays, for a creative game we need a creative idea from the get go - it doesn't just pop up in development because there's nothing to hinder us.
But that's not to say that games were only good in 90's, but the ratio of innovative games to dull games has taken a dive. Also, there are now way more games in general, so I'd say that the number of innovative games is pretty constant or even on the rise - but I think the industry is basically burying itself alive by releasing garbage without regulation.

Now, I can't really say that I don't think we'll see another Deus Ex, because I thought Dishonored was very close to it in terms of design - more than Human Revolution or BioShock. If Arkane Studios decides to do a cyberpunk game in the vein of Dishonored, I think it'll be as close as we can get to a modern Deus Ex.
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Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later

Post by Jaedar »

Jonas wrote:Please don't let OTP become like the RPG Codex or TTLG, a forum for people who have let their nostalgia turn into jadedness and overtake their love of new experiences.
Heh, funny. I remember aroun thiafs release people on the codex would look down upon ttlg because the general (pre-release?) consensus over there was way more positive towards thiaf.
Jonas wrote:I gotta make new shit!
Which, if you think about it, is a sentiment of the past. When was the last time a new genre was born? ;)
"Delays are temporary; mediocrity is forever."
odio ergo sum
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