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The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later 
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Illuminati

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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Jaedar wrote:
Eh, I am not so sure. I think there's some remembrance bias here, in that you don't remember the painfully generic bad stuff.


In the context of games, hell no. The popularity levels were justly deserved, with some exceptions (e.g Looking Glass' games being ignored).

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Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:47 am
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Cybernetic pig wrote:
Jaedar wrote:
Eh, I am not so sure. I think there's some remembrance bias here, in that you don't remember the painfully generic bad stuff.


In the context of games, hell no. The popularity levels were justly deserved, with some exceptions (e.g Looking Glass' games being ignored).

Sadly, cursory googling didn't turn out much for PC. But these two lists are interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ideo_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ideo_games

It's hard to judge, because I have not played a lot of these. Top ten on nintendo, there are at least 3 entries I'd consider suspect (snap, stadium, diddy racing).
On the playstation, I know less, but the final fantasies probably, and I am 90% sure harry potter doesn't deserve to be on there.

We can also look at WII and PS3:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ideo_games
But I am having a very hard time judging this. Just Dance? I doubt crossbow training or olympic games were very good though. The wii is a weird platform, I dunno what to make of this list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... yStation_3
The PS3 doesn't even have its own page. It's interesting, because in top 10 there are only sequels, and often two of them. Even an entire series (god of war).

I wish I could find a PC list though, would be easier. I'm not sure if I can really make any conclusion regarding quality of popular games, but popular games have certainly been getting more homogeneous. Wikipedia has this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... g_PC_games but it is laughable[Better Source Needed].

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Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:35 am
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Fuck it. Maybe I'll get into stone carving. Start making rune stones.

They last longer, anyway.

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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Jonas wrote:
Fuck it. Maybe I'll get into stone carving. Start making rune stones.

They last longer, anyway.

Thank you for making a valuable contribution.

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Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:30 am
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Jaedar wrote:
Sadly, cursory googling didn't turn out much for PC. But these two lists are interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ideo_games
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... ideo_games


I've played the vast majority of those titles. I'm a collector of games (or was, before the great decline). The majority listed are acceptable. It was a different era, a time when sequels were usually overall improvements. Design intended to push the player and demanded his/her full attention. Five second health regeneration and other modern design sensibilities were not up for consideration.

The titles of the past century that I do not consider to be worthy of their wild successes are those that are just old concepts wildly dumbed-down, but with shiny graphics. This is what the vast majority of the hugely popular games are post 2006.

Quote:
We can also look at WII and PS3


These are post-2006. Precisely when I perceived the undeserving popularity phenomenon to have begun:

2007 by popularity

Kane & Lynch: a best seller, and as barebones as a TPS gets.
Uncharted: ditto the above.
Gears of War: ditto the above. Third person shooters were not new at this time. I had played plenty, and when I got my hands on these I was baffled.
Bioshock: AKA System Shock stripped of its brilliance and ironically hailed as a masterpiece once it got into the hands of the uninformed.
Mass Effect: laughable game design. Typical Bioware. Designs 3D real-time action/RPGs as if they were still limited to the constraints of isometric RTwP and does away with said perspective's few benefits by doing so. Basically gears of war with dialogue options & shitty RPG progression systems. And waifu.
Assassins Creed: had the fans of this game even played a stealth/action title before? Once again, I was baffled. The game played itself to some degree.
Crysis: the graphics whore game.
Resistance: Fall of Man: a linear barebones FPS reminiscent of a modern military shooter. Perhaps I gave up too soon, but first impressions really weren't good.
Crackdown: again, more confusion on my part. different from the TPS above in that it was open world, but again, not a new concept, rather it was the same formula as GTA, Mercenaries: Playground of destruction, DAH! etc, only without the fun.
Need for Speed Pro Street: A sequel to a long-running series where much of the content from previous installments was missing.
Transformers: the Game: slammed by even the critics, yet still sold well http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360 ... s-the-game

That's how I perceived the popular games of 2007 that I played, and it is a similar story for each and every year onward. There's likely some I missed.
One game of 2007 I enjoyed was STALKER, yet I'm not sure if it qualifies as even remotely popular.

Quote:
I wish I could find a PC list though, would be easier. I'm not sure if I can really make any conclusion regarding quality of popular games, but popular games have certainly been getting more homogeneous. Wikipedia has this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... g_PC_games but it is laughable[Better Source Needed].


I'm no fan of any of the top ten games there (I have no opinion on Warcraft or Diablo 3, not played them), but there's a lot of dreaded post-2006 titles there which can serve as a good explanation for the shit taste ;)
I like how at least two mods are on that list. Valve has the PC market by the balls.

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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Jaedar wrote:
Thank you for making a valuable contribution.

There is nothing valuable about this thread to begin with :-k

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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
I'm with Jonas on this one, this is becoming way too bitter.
Sure, the design paradigms of AAA games (and games in general) has changed. There have been and will be shitty games, and the more video games grow - there will be more shit to wade through.
But you can't say games haven't grown since 2006. These are the ones I can remember for the PC:
Portal, Braid, The Path, the Amnesia series, the Metro series, To the Moon, Mark of the Ninja, Stacking, Antichamber, Fez, Gone Home, Valkyria Chronicles and Titan Souls.
These are 15 games which were innovative, or at least had a different approach to game design than contemporary games. They might not be remembered as the best or best selling, but they still made something unique which proves that the industry isn't stagnating.
When you keep focusing on the bad you're bound to find shit. The industry is evolving despite all of that shit, and we need to find the games which drive that evolution rather than stagnate it.


Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:53 pm
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Some of the best games after the 2007 watershed that was mentioned have been 'Eastern Bloc' games.
First Witcher was great, STALKER was fantastic, forgive it the bugs, and I thought Metro 2033 was a great game. All coming from Eastern Europe.


e2a: All with really compelling stories and tons of atmosphere!


Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:29 pm
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Jonas wrote:
Jaedar wrote:
Thank you for making a valuable contribution.

There is nothing valuable about this thread to begin with :-k


Why waste your time with it then, aren't we holding you back?

The past century has been a industry-wide sellout, and it shows in the quality of the games. Where PC developers abandoned the PC market en masse to make insultingly dumb crap for the consoles that only were accepted due to aggressive marketing. Where publishers upped the ante on what underhanded business strategies they could get away with. Where many a game journos have been eating from the palm of said publishers. Where minimalist mobile games made in less than one week using stolen assets become the top selling app on the market...It doesn't even need to be all listed, the business is seemingly nearing cutthroat proportions. the latest is I hear indies are frequently shut down by big publishers based on ridiculous fabricated "infringements".

There are many anecdotal stories from within the AAA side of the industry that reflect the state of affairs.

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Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:39 pm
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Cybernetic pig wrote:
Assassins Creed: had the fans of this game even played a stealth/action title before? Once again, I was baffled. The game played itself to some degree.

I think you are being to harsh here. AssCreed had several things to set it apart: historical authenticity in terms of architecture and such, as well as the parkouring which was very novel at the time. See that building? You can climb it. Is it easy? yes. Am I sad they didn't properly expand on the core mechanics in the sequels? Very.

Cybernetic pig wrote:
Crysis: the graphics whore game.

Also had some cool parts. The NPC's would call in reinforcements, the player had a p good toolbox in the suit allowing for more than one playstyle. And the anti gravity level was cool too as I recall.
Cybernetic pig wrote:
I'm no fan of any of the top ten games there (I have no opinion on Warcraft or Diablo 3, not played them), but there's a lot of dreaded post-2006 titles there which can serve as a good explanation for the shit taste ;)
I like how at least two mods are on that list. Valve has the PC market by the balls.

Starcraft 2 is alright. I'd say it deserves its popularity for sure.
Made in China wrote:
When you keep focusing on the bad you're bound to find shit. The industry is evolving despite all of that shit, and we need to find the games which drive that evolution rather than stagnate it.

There is some truth to this. And it's actually not that bad nowadays. There were a couple of yours when there really weren't a lot of stuff. But in these last couple of years good indies and other small teams have really started appearing making good stuff.

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Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:41 pm
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Jaedar wrote:
parkouring which was very novel at the time.


No it wasn't. There's Prince of Persia: SoT & Ninja Gaiden (2004) which did it better, among others.

Quote:
[Crysis] Also had some cool parts


Every game has its merits.

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Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:09 pm
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Jonas wrote:
Jaedar wrote:
Thank you for making a valuable contribution.

There is nothing valuable about this thread to begin with :-k


I do take exception to this most outrageous comment, for this is a noble thread and the content contained within OP is blessed by the Forum Gods themselves.


Thu Aug 13, 2015 12:07 am
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Cybernetic pig wrote:
Jaedar wrote:
parkouring which was very novel at the time.


No it wasn't. There's Prince of Persia: SoT & Ninja Gaiden (2004) which did it better, among others.


I have admittedly not played Ninja Gaiden, but PoP is more of a platformer than a parkour game. There is a big difference between being able to climb where the developers intended, and being able to climb every building, almost all of them in a lot of different ways.

But it turns out it wasn't very good for gameplay, because there weren't a lot of places to take it. That is why each sequel has just kept adding more superfluous bits(200 kinds of weapons! Weapon upgrading! You have a house in this one! Level up your minigame assassins! and so on). Perhaps they added something new in the latest ones though, I stopped playing the series after the 4th installment.

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:25 pm
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Quote:
PoP is more of a platformer than a parkour game


I don't think I can consider Assassin's Creed to be a "parkour game". More of a idly watch the character on screen do awesome shit psuedo-game.

Jaedar wrote:
But it turns out it wasn't very good for gameplay


Nothing about the "game" was.

Quote:
“They had high ambitions -- and most of them wanted to improve what they achieved in Prince of Persia: Sands of Time"
-Rando Spidey thought of an IGN game journo


By making it mostly automated...

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Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:57 pm
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Post Re: The legacy of Deus Ex, 15 years later
Mainstream 'AAA' games certainly appear to lack in innovation, which is nothing new. Because of the scale of mainstream video game development (millions of dollars, sometimes hundreds of staff) there will always be elements of conservatism and gratification in mainstream games - new game concepts can be very risky when the scale of the development is that big. I also find that refining and improving an existing game concept can be just as good as coming up with a new concept. Nevertheless I've been particularly impressed by the games of independent developers in recent years, so I have to disagree with the argument that the industry is somehow stagnant due to a lack of innovation...quite the opposite actually. One example I'm very fond of is The Talos Principle (2014). It's one of the best games I've ever played. I also look forward to what Inexile Entertainment (run by Brian Fargo funded via Kickstarter) can come up with. I can understand if you're sick of mainstream video games but there's huge innovation from independent developers, in my opinion.


Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:28 am
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