Whats the deal with character modeling?

Dead-eye · Post by **Dead-eye** » Tue May 06, 2008 11:29 am

Before I go on I should state that I have not had any sleep for some time and I'm dead tired, and I have school in a hour.

So... Fat JC Denton! Ha ha that was funny!

Anyways I have tried my hand at some character modeling with interesting results... Keep in mind this is in no ware near done.

Theres a lot of work I need to do, mostly the problems steam form the fact that I used a cartoonsh concept layout for the body and a realistic layout the head.

I was kinda loosely fallowing this tut:
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/ma ... anmenu.asp

This is may first time trying character modeling and I am kinda suprised that the thing looks kinda human. It needs a lot of work though I can see that. (No breasts, arms are weird, head and body still don't seem all that fit together well. Kinda alien looking) Right now the poly count is about 6,492 with one level of NURMS on and 1,613. I'm aiming for something in the area of 7,500 polys. Still needs work and I need sleep of witch I shall get non for the next 8 hours or so.

Anyways seeing as Phasmatis is not only a good modeler but is also a 3ds Max user I was wondering if you had any tips... Or any one else tipes thaning are cooll...

*head falls on keyborad and passes out*

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:40 pm

I have the actually proper version of that Tutorial, lets just say it actually does a much better way of explaining what the hell to do. Granted mine is the Maya version.

You should make sure you are using image panes. Ballistic Publishing (google) has some excellent female image panes for sale, though they are pricey.. but ultimately its going to be a pain in the ass to find a women prepared to pose naked for you (Their 2nd DVD is better than the first because the 2nd DVD's chick is actually rather attractive as opposed to the first that looks a bit boring and plain.. and stupid for that matter). This is by far easier and cheaper than finding a girlfriend to do it for you

Image panes are by far the easiest way to model as you are basically developing your ideas in 2d, the transition is seamless (assuming you are good at drawing or photography).

Phasmatis · Post by **Phasmatis** » Tue May 06, 2008 1:43 pm

I don't use Max to model so I can't really give you any tips on the tools but I'll try to give some tips on the model.

On the first page of the head tutorial he's given an example of good topology.

If you follow the muscles of the face like he's drawn in the image above you'll end up with a nice model, it's the same for the body. Follow the muscles and you'll get the shape you want.

If you're giving yourself a poly limit, I would suggest you don't use MeshSmooth, it won't help. You'll need to keep the polys all quads for MeshSmooth to work properly and the end result will be too hires.

Dead-eye · Post by **Dead-eye** » Tue May 06, 2008 9:21 pm

I did the head in another tutorial I got off Azureus... no I did not pirate it. The head in the tutorial I posted seems way off, I think the body's only 5 to 6 heads tall comparably. And I'm trying to make a more realistic female model. (7 to 8 heads If I'm not mistaken.)

Hay Phasmatis what do you use to model? Do you have some crazy pipeline where you use Maya for modeling then bring it over into Max for importing into Deus Ex? Or is it Alex who uses max?

Edit: oh the limit to ploys was working well and I was not planing on using smoothing but after a bit I soon realized that the ploy count was extremely low. (strangely it worked too.) so I made up my mind to apple a mesh smooth. I'm trying to keep most of the model in quads.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Wed May 07, 2008 12:51 am

You shouldn't need to use smoothing. The whole point of this tutorial is to produce a low-poly model for game use.

You need some better references, The one you've been using is a more Anime style (6 heads) so it won't work.

Phasmatis · Post by **Phasmatis** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:36 pm

Dead-eye wrote:I did the head in another tutorial I got off Azureus... no I did not pirate it. The head in the tutorial I posted seems way off, I think the body's only 5 to 6 heads tall comparably. And I'm trying to make a more realistic female model. (7 to 8 heads If I'm not mistaken.)

Hay Phasmatis what do you use to model? Do you have some crazy pipeline where you use Maya for modeling then bring it over into Max for importing into Deus Ex? Or is it Alex who uses max?

Edit: oh the limit to ploys was working well and I was not planing on using smoothing but after a bit I soon realized that the ploy count was extremely low. (strangely it worked too.) so I made up my mind to apple a mesh smooth. I'm trying to keep most of the model in quads.

I use Cinema4d to model then bring it into max for uvmapping and animating.

If the mesh has a low poly count then add the detail until you have a nice silhouette, using MeshSmooth will add a load of unwanted polys and make it a lot harder to manage.

Dead-eye · Post by **Dead-eye** » Fri May 09, 2008 2:25 am

Phasmatis wrote:
Dead-eye wrote:I did the head in another tutorial I got off Azureus... no I did not pirate it. The head in the tutorial I posted seems way off, I think the body's only 5 to 6 heads tall comparably. And I'm trying to make a more realistic female model. (7 to 8 heads If I'm not mistaken.)

Hay Phasmatis what do you use to model? Do you have some crazy pipeline where you use Maya for modeling then bring it over into Max for importing into Deus Ex? Or is it Alex who uses max?

Edit: oh the limit to ploys was working well and I was not planing on using smoothing but after a bit I soon realized that the ploy count was extremely low. (strangely it worked too.) so I made up my mind to apple a mesh smooth. I'm trying to keep most of the model in quads.
I use Cinema4d to model then bring it into max for uvmapping and animating.

If the mesh has a low poly count then add the detail until you have a nice silhouette, using MeshSmooth will add a load of unwanted polys and make it a lot harder to manage.

Ha ha apple a mesh smooth.

Jetsetlemming · Post by **Jetsetlemming** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:49 am

I tried out Maya Learning Edition today. It refuses to run, crashing on load every time.

Is there something like a learning edition of 3DS Max?

Michael_TSM · Post by **Michael_TSM** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:18 am

Gmax was a 3DSmax lite/learning version that was freely downloadable, however it is no longer supported and only exports to MD3.
You can find it here: http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax

If you just thinking of 3D modeling as a hobby and have no intention to pay any money I would suggest you learn Blender 3D. Its opensource and very powerful.
You can find it here: www.blender.org
It may initially look confusing but once you go through the introductory tutorials you find it quite intuitive.

Oh and every so often the Blender foundation gets together and makes a neat little animated movie with Blender:
Elephants Dream: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsGEWHNJ3s8
Trailer for Big Buck Bunny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBTE-RoMsvw

Jetsetlemming · Post by **Jetsetlemming** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:44 am

I don't think many of us have any intentions to pay any money for something like this... that's for professional, commercial work.

Stuff that would return an investment.
I'm just looking to learn.
What does "only exports to MD3." mean as far as limitations go? Is MD3 a rare or unsupported format? Is there no converters from MD3 to other formats depending on what game engine you want to import it into?

Michael_TSM · Post by **Michael_TSM** » Sat May 17, 2008 12:03 pm

I'm not sure how many MD3 converters are around...free ones that is.

But MD3 was the model format used for Quake 3 based games.

There were several games that used Gmax as a mod development tool such as C&C Renegade, So if you installed the appropriate game pack you might be able to get more file formats. However from what I recall it wasn't possible to get Gmax to export to .3ds

If you think you may someday purchase a copy of 3D Studio Max then I would recommend downloading Gmax fiddling around, learn the tutorials and see if you like it.

Though just as a warning I find that unlike image programs (like photoshop, GIMP etc) 3D programs are often quite diverse in how they work and you may find it hard to easily translate your skills from one program to another, so whatever program you learn first you will probably find yourself sticking to.

Jetsetlemming · Post by **Jetsetlemming** » Mon May 19, 2008 11:12 am

Jetsetlemming wrote:I tried out Maya Learning Edition today. It refuses to run, crashing on load every time. Is there something like a learning edition of 3DS Max?

Goddamnit! I found out what the problem was: Maya, like 3ds Max, requires XP Pro. It also requires 1280x1024 minimum resolution.

Motherfucker.

EER · Post by **EER** » Mon May 19, 2008 12:15 pm

So Maya CRASHES if the resolution is not 1280x1024? I'd think something simple as that would warrant a messagebox telling you to up the resolution. But a crash gets the message across as well I guess.

Dead-eye · Post by **Dead-eye** » Mon May 19, 2008 10:41 pm

Jetsetlemming wrote: Goddamnit! I found out what the problem was: Maya, like 3ds Max, requires XP Pro. It also requires 1280x1024 minimum resolution. Motherfucker.

...I don't seem to have that problem. However I do know that Maya requires 2GB of ram and 3ds Max only needs a gige. But thats mostly because Autodesk dose not won't people to call them saying Maya crashed because they forgot to delete their history so they just have a huge ram specification.

What are your system specs?

Michael_TSM wrote: Though just as a warning I find that unlike image programs (like photoshop, GIMP etc) 3D programs are often quite diverse in how they work and you may find it hard to easily translate your skills from one program to another, so whatever program you learn first you will probably find yourself sticking to.

Thats not %100 accurate. I find it much easier to learn one program if I have skills with another. For example I know both Blender and 3ds Max. I found as I was learning 3ds Max that allot of the concepts and tools work the same way in blender. Although this dose not work for everyone it works for me quite well. The best Blender training I ever got was, oddly, this: http://www.3dbuzz.com/xcart/product.php?productid=38

I also have a small interest in learning Maya and Houdini maybe lightwave as wel. (Maya because it's the slandered 3d application for everything, Houdini because it looks freaking cool.) But not as much as I have for getting my Blender and 3ds Max skills higher.

Edit: I should point out that I don't won't to learn Maya because I already know one autodesk product.

Jetsetlemming · Post by **Jetsetlemming** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:53 pm

Dead-eye wrote:
Jetsetlemming wrote: What are your system specs?

Pentium 4, 1 GB Ram, DX8.1 video card, Windows XP Home, 1024x768 monitor.