What are you playing?

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Hassat Hunter
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Hassat Hunter »

Well, if it's any soothing... I get plenty of feedback on a daily basis on TSLRCM, and the Steam Forums is anything but positive (mostly people too lazy to get their game running and expect Steam or us to auto-fix it for them or something)...
Can somebody tell me how I can get a custom avatar?
Oh wait, I already got one...
Cybernetic pig
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Was a little actually. Thanks. Silence doesn't sound too bad now.
bobby 55
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by bobby 55 »

Hassat Hunter wrote:Well, if it's any soothing... I get plenty of feedback on a daily basis on TSLRCM, and the Steam Forums is anything but positive (mostly people too lazy to get their game running and expect Steam or us to auto-fix it for them or something)...
Ungrateful pr***s.

Anyhow, I'm unfortunately getting a couple of lock-ups playing TNM. There's no error, the game freezes then shuts down. It's happened twice when using the speed aug.
Using a new renderer with a new exe on a modded game using a 14 year old engine I guess this should come as no surprise. :)

I've just started the Shadowcode mission after betraying Abom. I love DT's dialogue after doing all the Goat's tasks and that was the deciding factor for siding with them. I'll go with the Llamas when I do the Word Corp playthrough.
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Jonas
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Jonas »

Cybernetic pig wrote:I wish I could experience what you have for years. Alas, I get the very occasional lucky feedback from players because everybody is playing Goat Simulator.
I don't know what to tell you, man. Have you considered doing another mod for a newer, more popular game? Alternatively you could make an indie game, even a simple one is bound to get a small following if you make it good and are passionate enough about it. Obviously very few devs get Notch rich or whatever, but look at someone like Spiderweb Software: you can run a whole carreer on a really small, super loyal and passionate group of fans.

And don't slam Goat Simulator - those guys hit on a hilarious idea and went all-in, you gotta respect their balls ;)
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Cybernetic pig
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Jonas wrote: I don't know what to tell you, man. Have you considered doing another mod for a newer, more popular game? Alternatively you could make an indie game, even a simple one is bound to get a small following if you make it good and are passionate enough about it. Obviously very few devs get Notch rich or whatever, but look at someone like Spiderweb Software: you can run a whole carreer on a really small, super loyal and passionate group of fans.
Yes, the plan is indie. Thanks for the encouragement :)
And don't slam Goat Simulator - those guys hit on a hilarious idea and went all-in, you gotta respect their balls ;)
It's not the existence of the game, it's concept or the developers that gets me down, it's the audience. Hell the devs themselves recommend you don't even buy the game. It's annoying that just because "ha ha look, playable goat", many swarmed it, nothing to do with it's quality, heck it advertised that it wa very buggy...there are other developers playing seriously and passionately that get ignored. Fucking audience.
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Sat May 10, 2014 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DDL
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by DDL »

I've gotta say, "Fucking audience" is probably a pretty bad fundamental platform to base a game dev career on. :D

"BUY MY FUCKING GAME U CONSOLETARDS" said no successful dev, ever.

(well, maybe a few of them did, but they were successful already, so they kinda earned that ;) )

If you want to target the mass market, make a game that appeals to the mass market. If you want to target a niche market, make a game that appeals to the niche market you're targeting. Goat simulator targeted the niche market of people with juuust enough disposable income to think "hahahahahha o holy fuck what is that, ah hell I won't regret this purchase even if it's terrible, which it self evidently will be".

Regardless of success, that IS still a niche market. But credit where credit's due: they even made its bugginess a feature, which is ballsy.

By all means pour your passion into a game that you yourself will love, but if you actually want to sell that game, it's probably more sensible to establish whether that game has a market first, rather than discover it doesn't later, and call everyone stupid.

EDIT: added smilies to make it moar obvious that I'm joking, coz u conosletards cant understnad sacrasm lol I am joking.
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Jaedar
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Jaedar »

DDL wrote: By all means pour your passion into a game that you yourself will love, but if you actually want to sell that game, it's probably more sensible to establish whether that game has a market first, rather than discover it doesn't later, and call everyone stupid.
We'll see what happens to Age of Decadence, won't we. (The lead developer has repeatedly stated his only design goal is to make the sort of RPG he'd love, everything else can take a backseat, especially people who don't feel like dieing 20 times before beating the first combat encounter is reasonable)
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Cybernetic pig
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

DDL wrote:I've gotta say, "Fucking audience" is probably a pretty bad fundamental platform to base a game dev career on. :D
I'm not a dev yet. I'll shut my mouth/act professional only once I have to ;)
"BUY MY FUCKING GAME U CONSOLETARDS" said no successful dev, ever.
Goat sim is PC exclusive...for the PC tards :D
By all means pour your passion into a game that you yourself will love
Compromise, compromise and more compromise. My mod is probably the only project I'll ever work on that doesn't have significantly compromised design.
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Mon May 12, 2014 4:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Another double? /console & PC gaming tard
Jaedar wrote: We'll see what happens to Age of Decadence, won't we. (The lead developer has repeatedly stated his only design goal is to make the sort of RPG he'd love, everything else can take a backseat, especially people who don't feel like dieing 20 times before beating the first combat encounter is reasonable)
Hmm, just looked it up. May have to give it a try.
DDL wrote:By all means pour your passion into a game that you yourself will love, but if you actually want to sell that game, it's probably more sensible to establish whether that game has a market first, rather than discover it doesn't later, and call everyone stupid.
My mod doesn't have a market? As far as I am concerned a good 70% of it's features are objective improvements to Deus Ex's original design. Same for HDTP, it's true to the art style for the most part, and higher quality. Only the characters come under scrutiny and for good reason, the rest are objective in that they are the same style, just higher res.
New vision is another example, sure the textures are redrawn but they are very true to the source, just higher quality/resolution. Objective improvement.
I look at many changes in my mod the same way. Making many RPG elements that had little use as worthwhile as the rest for example.
Bug fixes, more believable AI. Sure one can have their personal disagreements, but their perspective may be skewed or narrow-minded and are not seeing the facts, or maybe not and they believe they can do it better in a way that I didn't think of, but most of the decisions still are improvements whilst sticking to the original design.
I can only accept a specific design decision as being bad if a logical argument can be provided as to why one believes it to be bad. If this logic is provided then I will see the facts and likely want to change it.

Take this example:

Me: "Fixing of the multitool/lockpick exploit is awesome, a solid improvement!"
Guest Poster: "But now I cannot exploit and if I want to be effective with multitools/picks I have to upgrade the skills, just like the rest of the skill system!"
Me: "Indeed. This is the whole point of the skill system in the first place. Disagree with it then the skill system was never for you in the first place, you disagree with the original design intention".

^Guest poster was missing the point.
Provide actual solid logical reasoning why this fix was a bad thing to do and I'll change it. But for now it seems to be an objective improvement on Deus Ex's design, until someone debunks this "fact".
A lot of changes in my mod do increase difficulty, but a good number of these influences can be negated by simply clicking on the difficulty mode lower than the one you usually pick.

The majority of modifications shown here are objective improvements, surely. Some just cannot be argued with, such as "When JC steps on a pillow he will no longer bounce around erratically". There are no downsides to this change as far as I am aware, but I am ready for my verifications to be debunked, just as some things previously thought to be fact are sometimes.
Last edited by Cybernetic pig on Tue May 13, 2014 2:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
bobby 55
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by bobby 55 »

I got to DXI and decided to do the spyware thing for Pimp-JoJo before tackling the Lava Caverns..... aaannd promptly forgot about the gas that fills the room above the server and died. #-o
Thankfully I saved just after Evil's warning about completing stuff. Also thanks for the ability (via the kb) to speed through the convos. Speaking of speedy convos I did the "summon Jonas" thing and have a question. Is Danish spoken that fast in real life? :P
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by DDL »

Cybernetic pig wrote: My mod doesn't have a market?
Are you planning to sell your mod?

Because that was a pretty pertinent point in my original statement.


As for things like fixing 'exploits', in a single-player game people play for fun, I don't see the point. It's something you can do, or can NOT do, and removing the 'bug' doesn't actually change this in any significant way, because 'spawnmass multitool' still exists.
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

DDL wrote: Are you planning to sell your mod?
No. I meant market as a metaphor for audience.
As for things like fixing 'exploits', in a single-player game people play for fun, I don't see the point. It's something you can do, or can NOT do
Choice and consequence. Removing this exploit gets rid of one choice that had no consequences except ruining balance. I've abused it before, when I had just 1 tool left, but I didn't exactly want to.
Fixing exploits is good for competitive reasons also.
Where do you draw the line? If DX was filled with these optional exploits on every turn would you still say "There's no point"?. Because I'd call it a buggy mess.
All unintended exploits should be fixed, which is everything except console commands. A good number of them are immersion breaking also. Yeah I pulled that card :)
With less bugs/exploits it's just a more complete, cohesive whole also, and less chance for a player to stumble into such BS.
and removing the 'bug' doesn't actually change this in any significant way, because 'spawnmass multitool' still exists.
Not in hardcore mode it doesn't ;)
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by DDL »

I think that's a fairly excessive definition of choice and consequence. If you're looking for a challenge and you then cheat to remove that challenge, that's not a game flaw, that's a person flaw. Disallowing cheating will simply make no difference to anyone who wouldn't cheat anyway, and annoy the hell out of someone who would. Or who wanted to test something.

It's like making a running track that you HAVE to run all the way around once you've committed to starting a run, because they don't want people to feel tempted to take shortcuts.
People who want a nice long run won't even notice the absence of shortcuts.
People who want to take shortcuts want to take shortcuts: they'll either find a way to do so anyway, or find a less ludicrously restrictive running track.
And people who suddenly need to take a shortcut (crap, broke m'ankle) will be super-fucked.

But hey.

The tiptoe thing was nice, though. That's my kind of feature: adds functionality in a cool "wish I'd thought of that" kind of way, doesn't add tons of restrictiveness. Doubleplus thumbs up!
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by Cybernetic pig »

DDL wrote:that's not a game flaw, that's a person flaw.
It's a flaw of both the game and the player.
It's like making a running track that you HAVE to run all the way around once you've committed to starting a run, because they don't want people to feel tempted to take shortcuts.
No, it's just like a standard track: You can run it properly like everybody else, or quit. Game ruining shortcuts are not an option. Run across the field you'll be disqualified in the Olympics or whatever. If one doesn't care for this rule they can play on any of the four standard difficulty modes where console commands (and one exploit, the inventory stacking behind one) are enabled.
The tiptoe thing was nice, though. That's my kind of feature: adds functionality in a cool "wish I'd thought of that" kind of way, doesn't add tons of restrictiveness. Doubleplus thumbs up!
:)

One primary goal of the mod was adding more gameplay depth. The only restrictions are in hardcore mode or things that I believe should have been restrictive in the first place/to achieve balance.

GMDX did start off as a hardcore mod, but it became an overall gameplay enhancing mod 1/3 of the way into development, in addition to general aspects of the game that I personally had the skills and insight to improve. When I first joined this forum I wouldn't be surprised if many thought I was a troll, or an idiot. GMDX is my redemption, like I said, objective improvements. I know game design, and DX. Play the mod with HDTP, DX10 & New Vision and experience enhanced DX that is true to source for the most part, and that video I posted above is a good example of this ;) I take pride in knowing that I improved what I believe to be the greatest game of all time, and I do know that this is what I have done, even if that looks arrogant.
It also makes the DX experience require more thought, use of your brain, frequent use of your brain being something unique to the Immersive Sim in comparison to other first person games. Picking easy mode=not so much thought required. Realistic or Hardcore mode= More thought & planning than ever before.
All I need is one reputable person such as yourself to play and give your blessing for others to believe that I surprisingly can advance Deus Ex's design in the right direction, and with a solid team I could do so much more for it. That will never happen though because the DX community is a graveyard.

Stonger Sim design, increased gameplay depth, balanced gameplay systems, increased (but fair) challenge. The latter is the only aspect
that makes the mod hard to sell, but really no DX vets should have any trouble with it and easier difficulty modes help counter this if you are not looking for additional difficulty.

I am not going to shut up until my claims are verified or debunked by the front row audience (that's you lot; DX vets). Who doesn't want to see what most of us believe to be the greatest game of all time improved?
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Re: What are you playing?

Post by DDL »

No, it's just like a standard track: You can run it properly like everybody else, or quit. Game ruining shortcuts are not an option. Run across the field you'll be disqualified in the Olympics or whatever.
I chose "running track" for a reason. Because 'going for a run' is not a contest. It's a personal experience, done for health, fresh air, or the sheer enjoyment of feeling the ground flowing beneath your legs. It's something you do for fun. Like a game.

Not a race, where you're in direct competition with others.
DX is not a contest. It does not need a regulating body, and it does not need (in my opinion, obviously) people deciding for themselves what other players can and cannot do. I don't think I've ever used the multitool bug in an actual playthrough, but I like knowing it's an option (especially when I'm testing stuff).

I accept that this is all wholly personal viewpoints, but I've always felt like DX is a sort of....educational playground: if you just want to run around shooting people in the head, then you can do that, and...it'll be pretty easy. And that's fine. It doesn't need "head shooting" made harder, because the fact that shooting people in the head is a really easy way to achieve your goal is a part of the DX message. Followed by the corollary of "but is it a good way to achieve your goal?".
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