A New Decade

[Gahhhrrrlic]

Careful Hashi... If you have a look at everyone's posts on pg. 8, the summed total intelligence of your two posts is the lowest of all

[justanotherfan]

If these threads keep revolving, I'm going to join in by posting a couple rants soon.

I think that over the years, the available viewpoints have become damn clear. A person would be unreasonable to not have one of them. If the arguments are a catharsis, maybe they need their own forum subsection. That is, unless HDTP updates would be posted elsewhere, should they be made.

[Nameless Voice]

And Chris, I think your obsessive-compulsive writing style, with the footnotes, over-attention to detail and excessive literalization is a bit much.

Far better than randomly littering posts with asterisks that don't have footnotes associated with them, as some people have been doing lately.

[Salk]

And Chris, I think your obsessive-compulsive writing style, with the footnotes, over-attention to detail and excessive literalization is a bit much.

Far better than randomly littering posts with asterisks that don't have footnotes associated with them, as some people have been doing lately.

The intention there was probably to highlight the words included between the two asterisks (*....*) which is sometimes used in stead of italics or similar.

[Jaedar]

Does anyone know what kind of progress they've made over these months? Have they finished half, a quarter, a tenth or a hundredth of what had to be done?

Afaik, all the content is done but the implementation progress is complicated and time consuming and that is where they are stuck.

[chris the cynic]

Does anyone know what kind of progress they've made over these months? Have they finished half, a quarter, a tenth or a hundredth of what had to be done?

Which months? If you mean the past five months, then the answer is probably no. No one who has been recently active in this thread is in a position to know how much progress has been made. If your question covers a broader period of time, then a partial answer can be found in the update a little over five months ago.

..and you don't need to paint me as something I'm not. No doubt you disagree with me, no doubt you don't like what I'm saying but I'm not being irrate or toxic. I'm not fouling up the forum.

I would find this more believable if it did not immediately follow a statement pointing out that you were well aware of the nature of what you were doing, and were doing it specifically get a rise out of the team. Being rude because you believe that the resulting emotion might compel someone to do what you want them to do (in this case engaging with you) where they otherwise might not is not any more excusable than being rude in general.

At least not in my opinion. Somehow, openly claiming that you were trying to be manipulative doesn't make your choice of tactics seem any less foul to me.

I guess I'm trying to point out that even if the project isn't technically dead, everything else is...and isn't that the most tragic consequence of all?

This is the internet. A place where you don't even know if someone is still alive unless they are currently talking to you. To me, that puts the idea of tragic things online into a certain perspective.

The community becoming laconic does not strike me as all that tragic.

I can imagine tragic things that could cause the conversation to dry up, I can imagine tragic things that might result from it (people losing touch when they might have formed lifelong friendships, for example) but it drying up does not, in itself, seem very tragic to me.

-

On Footnotes

First, I send you all to see actual published fiction. And then to the story set in TNM's Forum City that it inspired, said story having almost (or perhaps absolutely) nothing to do with TNM other than the setting.

Does the above have anything to do with what anyone has been saying? No.

[Gahhhrrrlic]

..and you don't need to paint me as something I'm not. No doubt you disagree with me, no doubt you don't like what I'm saying but I'm not being irrate or toxic. I'm not fouling up the forum.

I would find this more believable if it did not immediately follow a statement pointing out that you were well aware of the nature of what you were doing, and were doing it specifically get a rise out of the team. Being rude because you believe that the resulting emotion might compel someone to do what you want them to do (in this case engaging with you) where they otherwise might not is not any more excusable than being rude in general.

At least not in my opinion. Somehow, openly claiming that you were trying to be manipulative doesn't make your choice of tactics seem any less foul to me.

Fair enough...I can accept that. Unfortunately I'm making my case to fans instead of the team itself. Maybe I'm being "rude" or whatever but I think it's pretty poor that the team members are nowhere to be found and have to be defended by others. Then again....since I don't believe they would say anything that would admit liability or injure their pride, we can't expect much can we?

[chris the cynic]

Liability for what?

[Hashi]

Careful Hashi... If you have a look at everyone's posts on pg. 8, the summed total intelligence of your two posts is the lowest of all

yeah but you have been answered already lol, and yet you continue to make the same posts, asking the same things, bringing up things that have been answered and dealt with. so nah i dont think my two posts are the two dumbest ones

[Gahhhrrrlic]

...as in they are liable to maintain an interest in their own mod and to proactively support their fanbase's interest and curiosity. If they can't do that, then at least admit that they can't and provide some closure....and if they can't do THAT, then release the shit already and call it a day. Dunno how I can be any clearer than that....at this point I'm willing to agree to disagree and drop the subject. Obviously this 2 page convo has slipped under the radar or failed to achieve the goal of getting somebody from the team to exercise their keyboard. I am however relieved that at least you, Jonas and others care enough to participate in a discussion (honestly I mean that).

[chris the cynic]

...as in they are liable to maintain an interest in their own mod and to proactively support their fanbase's interest and curiosity.

This is obviously some usage of the word liable of which I was unaware.

I know of three uses of the word liable. The first is when someone or something is liable for something. In that case they are responsible under law for it. That is, it would be justified to take legal action against them in response to the thing for which they are liable. The other two both have to do with likelihood and are both when someone is liable to something. If X is liable to Y then that means that either X is likely to Y*, or that Y is likely to be experienced by X.

That would mean that what I quoted could only be interpreted as meaning, "as in they are likely to maintain an interest in their own mod and to proactively support their fanbase's interest and curiosity," which I doubt is what you meant. So I don't know what you were saying.

How are you using the word?

-

* Note that Y could be for the form "be Z," in which case that could be rewritten, "If X is liable to be Z then that means that X is likely to be Z."

[Gahhhrrrlic]

Are you telling me that due a minor linguistic screw-up on my part, you need me to explain what I meant? Ok, think of it in the legal sense if you like, except instead of laws, you have obligations.

[chris the cynic]

Are you telling me that due a minor linguistic screw-up on my part, you need me to explain what I meant?

Yes. That's sort of how language works. Given that language is used to convey meaning, screw ups tend to make it so that what is meant has to be explained.

If Jonas slips into Danish for a word that would be a fairly minor screw up, but it would also probably mean that in order to find out what he meant I'd have to ask him to explain.

Ok, think of it in the legal sense if you like, except instead of laws, you have obligations.

Still not making any sense.

Setting aside the fact that in that case your phrasing would indicate that maintaining an interest and proactively supporting their fanbase would be the violation rather than the ideal*, what does that mean in this context?

What it means to be legally responsible for something is clearly defined. Sometimes it means going to jail, sometimes it means paying a fine or a settlement, sometimes it means 10 hours of community service, but it always means something. What does being obligation-based responsible for something mean? Will they be forced to pay an internet community fine? Thrown into modder's jail? Obligated to do community service?

-

*People are legally liable for crimes, not laws. You are not liable for obeying the law, you are liable for the way in which you break it.

[Gahhhrrrlic]

Of course there are no tangible reprocussions for them. The intangible ones are:


Expressions of anger, frustration, impatience and resentment, none of which can be challenged on grounds of being inappropriate.

Loss of interest from fans

Loss of respect from fans

Loss of "credit" for team members being awesome rulers of the universe



To finish my thought from a page ago, the mod hasn't been released because the team members would lose their stake in the project, thereby losing a percentage of the ego boost when the thing is finished by someone else. Instead of everyone pouring over the team with compliments and praise, all their works will be spread far and wide and the ones to finally zip everything up will look like saviours to a good chunk of the community. The team doesn't want that because it is far more important to them to finish the thing themselves and get sole credit. If they can't finish it they'd rather cast it into oblivion than let someone else steal their thunder. It's an emotionally driven, selfish cause and they've got all of us by the balls....which is just fine and dandy to them, whether they care to admit it or not.

The logical thing to do is whatever is in the best interest of the end-user. The end-user has already spoken.

[gamer0004]

You were nitpicking a bit there Chris, even though I agree with you. However, I guess this is a symptom of your way of reasoning, which is far superior to the reasoning of most people (including me ofc).