OK. What's the real deal?

[riskmaker]

Yeah, sure, whatever. The "team" doesn't owe anyone anything. We get it. But there are a bunch of people who hover these forums hoping for the things that while may not have been promised, but seemed like a sure thing.

How could this work be so complicated that only one man can do it? What could be so in-depth that the multitude of skilled computer literate people out there who love Deus Ex can't even be involved? How could this last thing be so slow as to take years?

No details have been released about what needs to be done as far as I can see, at least the specifics. My guess: You don't want people going "Wow that could have been done a long time ago with even slight progress each day."

Granted that might be unfair; but its the only conclusion that makes sense.

There are freelance programmers that make more complicated games than Deus Ex now.

Personally if I knew the scale of what was needed to be done and what exactly had to be learned, I could do the damn thing myself.

[Jonas]

Personally if I knew the scale of what was needed to be done and what exactly had to be learned, I could do the damn thing myself.

If you actually wanted to, rather than just claiming it to try and make a condescending point, you could find out yourself. The relevant information is available on the Internet.

And if you'd care to take a look around, DDL recently posted a small status update in one of the threads here. I thought about finding you a link, but I'm certain you can do that damn thing yourself too.

[justanotherfan]

Not sure why I'm posting in another Riskmaker trolling thread.

The latest DDL HDTP-related post would be last month-

Meanwhile, we're alive, just keeping under the radar coz..jesus: have you read the sort of stuff people post round here? You stick your head up and it gets shit flung at it (so I'll duck back down again now, thx).

I mentioned this in a PM the other day. A lack of communication led to uncertainty, distrust, a lack of appreciation, and trolling. I guess that led to no communication at all. Aside from DDL, HDTP members haven't logged on here in nearly a year. I'm not saying that means anything, but you did make me sort the Member list by rank ;-)

The latest DDL HDTP-status post would be from August-

Animating. The weapon models are done, and for things like the 3rd person/pickup view, that's all you need, so those are already in. The problem is first person animations. Animating for DX is sloooooooooow and, quite frankly, way out of my skill league, so there are a limited number of people who can handle getting them done. And they're getting them done, but slowly.

I hope that answers your question Riskmaker. If you can duplicate what HDTP has done and release it first, please start now! I'm sure the scale of the task is as irrelevant to doing the task as it is to criticizing others' efforts.

[riskmaker]

I never had the gall to say I wanted to do all of it over by scratch.

I am merely commenting on how this guy is treated like the Holy Grail of <whatever he is apparently doing> instead, perhaps other people, with sufficient intelligence could learn the prerequisite skills and expedite the process.

Vague posts are sufficiently vague to be considered standard fare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzE4Mhn7pgI

[justanotherfan]

If you mean DDL, the second quote says he isn't doing everything (he says he can't anyway). ISTR a post somewhere by Metche saying DDL was handling something or other, and since DDL is around, I've started to think of DDL as an interim HDTP leader while Metche gets her new life settled.

Other people could learn to do what HDTP is doing. I don't see anyone competing or duplicating the effort. Nobody is preventing them.

Respect is earned. There are many people with sufficient intelligence, and even with prerequisite skills, who I don't respect. Disrespecting those who do the work too, that disrespect will be returned by anyone who respects them. Succinctly, don't dis my homies, foo.

[riskmaker]

I just don't understand the ego trip way of handling it. I wasn't dissing anyone specifically, people can have lives, and not be slaves to some mod for a 10+ year old game. But if they had any passion about completing it, they might look into recruiting those who were interested in learning the prerequisite skills, instead of the teamwork that is happening now that seems to account for nothing getting done. And if that isn't the case you have no-one to blame but yourselves for that image, no progress bar icon or something easy to implement that you could change a number on and everyone would see the progress, or at least some representation of it. Instead this place is a veritable ghost town, the lack of such an easy to implement feature for those who have been loyal for years without being even a little angsty is just a slap in the face and a yell "Nothing is getting done." Once again, that may not be true, but just don't be surprised when all about 4 people stopped caring.

[VectorM]

Why are there so many people on forums, who think they know how shit is done, yet they aren't actually doing shit themselves?

[riskmaker]

I don't think you can read. It's some elaborate masquerade, a monkey slapping away and when it looks like something you've seen before you hit submit.

[justanotherfan]

If it makes you feel better, I actually agree with much of your "ego trip way" post. I don't understand the "monkey slapping away" one.

-I was thinking this is the old style of art. Art is released as a monolith, a masterpiece, created by an individual or small group. This can seem odd on the Internet, when we have open source and free culture. Unfortunately, it isn't rare on the net, since Creative Commons type licences for art are just now getting some attention. Crowd-sourcing art has its own challenges. The current setup isn't an ego trip, it's just the normal way of doing things. Ideally HDTP would be on github or something, but that's a new model that HDTP didn't pick. If it helps, TNM used a closed development model and released to open source.

-HDTP did recruit lots of people to do the work. They did it, and now say they only have difficult obscure animation work to do, with a "limited number of people" working on it. Ideally there would be more, but it seems that a limited number of people can do it and are willing to.

-There should be a progress bar. I remember there being one years ago, but it was never updated. It should have been updated. In defense, I remember it being updated once where everything was at 100%, and the last bar was at ~64%, perhaps true but graphically misrepresenting of how much work was left to do.

-This subforum is a ghost town, except for a few trolls. As DDL said, even HDTP members don't want to hang out here. In defense of the trolls (?!) there's nothing to talk about but trolling.

-Interest has obviously waned. There's still a diehard audience. Like TNM, I imagine a release would get a lot of attention and interest. In defense of HDTP, DX3 releasing after HDTP would divert interest from HDTP, while DX3 having been released could drive interest to the old DX and HDTP.

I agree with a lot of your ideas, but you say them with bucketloads of ego and hyperbole and disrespect. If you can imagine yourself as a HDTP developer and reread what you've posted, would you want to respond to it, let alone agree with it? It's trolling, and I'm an idiot for responding.

[VectorM]

I don't think you can read. It's some elaborate masquerade, a monkey slapping away and when it looks like something you've seen before you hit submit.

You describe your posts pretty well.

[riskmaker]

No, Vector, that post was directed towards YOUR POST. But you knew that, didn't you? You sly dog! Mad props gramps, you learned internet.

The meek get squashed around here with The White Knight patrol. Jesus, its half trolls and half morons trying to "educate" trolls. Then someone comes in with actual questions and assertions and of course, the half morons add more to the troll list.

The only way to not troll on these boards is to be perfectly fine with the fact that nothing has happened for years, and while many of us hold DX dear to our hearts, we can't sit in silence.

This project robbed people of motivations when the iron was hot. Now its cooled and the enthusiasm is no where to be found. Instead of taking this long...

It would have been better to never have started.

[bobby 55]

The meek get squashed around here with The White Knight patrol. Jesus, its half trolls and half morons trying to "educate" trolls. Then someone comes in with actual questions and assertions and of course, the half morons add more to the troll list.

Actually a lot of polite enquiries have been answered in kind. It's only when people whose sense of entitlement greatly outweighs any common sense they might have, not to mention manners, that vitriol wins the day. Trolls won't be educated because they've got their heads that far up their arses they can't see anything but the crap they want to void.

Yours faithfully, A. Moron I don't like doing things by halves.

[riskmaker]

I'd agree only that useless fluff is answered kindly.

Any actual inquiry is met with...useless fluff it its worded with useless fluff, or troll-seething hatred.

I may have been a little less than a gigantic ass-kisser, but I don't think I was hurtful or antagonistic. These are real problems that get side-stepped every time they are brought up, because more and more, no one who knows what they're actually talking about inhabits these forums.

[justanotherfan]

Provide solutions to the problems that you identify.

If the answer is "No", be satisfied. HDTP isn't yours. Solutions like "Release now, incomplete" have been rejected in the past. "Have other people learn to do it and have them do it" isn't a solution. "Finish it" is already the goal. If you can't actually help (and you haven't been helping), be satisfied that you've provided feedback. Ranting constantly when you've been answered is trolling.

[riskmaker]

How could this work be so complicated that only one man can do it? What could be so in-depth that the multitude of skilled computer literate people out there who love Deus Ex can't even be involved? How could this last thing be so slow as to take years?