GMDX: v4. (HDTP Compatible)

Discuss every aspect of HDTP here.

Moderator: HDTP Team

Forum rules
Please do not feed the trolls.
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Miscellaneous, the last video in the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jOkBEP ... e=youtu.be
nerdenstein
Illuminati
Posts: 1591
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:40 pm
Location: Leicester, England, UK.

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by nerdenstein »

Couple of screenshots of the new launcher.
Notice you can now select .int files as well and the cool grouping system for folders making it easier to switch between mods.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42271969/dx1.PNG
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42271969/dx2.PNG
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

And why do you have GMDX unchecked? :P
nerdenstein
Illuminati
Posts: 1591
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:40 pm
Location: Leicester, England, UK.

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by nerdenstein »

Cybernetic pig wrote:And why do you have GMDX unchecked? :P
Just downloaded Shifter to test that as well. ;)
Wasn't sure if it would work this way with HDTP and Shifter being in their own respective folders instead of sticking the files in the System folder. Turns out it does. :mrgreen:
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.
User avatar
gamer0004
Illuminati
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by gamer0004 »

Fancy, does that mean I can choose which elements of GMDX to install? Because the videos have made me really want to try some of the changes but I'm not excited about all of them (some seem rather immersion-breaking).
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

gamer0004 wrote:Fancy, does that mean I can choose which elements of GMDX to install? Because the videos have made me really want to try some of the changes but I'm not excited about all of them (some seem rather immersion-breaking).
Please list all problems you have so I can potentially fix before release, or perhaps tell you why you are wrong in your beliefs :)
The mod strives to improve simulation design, and every design decision has reasoning.

And no, you cannot choose elements, has to be the full package.
nerdenstein
Illuminati
Posts: 1591
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:40 pm
Location: Leicester, England, UK.

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by nerdenstein »

gamer0004 wrote:Fancy, does that mean I can choose which elements of GMDX to install? Because the videos have made me really want to try some of the changes but I'm not excited about all of them (some seem rather immersion-breaking).
Only inasmuch as you can disable GMDX's maps and music changes.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wgk6boen8tcd6x/dx3.PNG
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

nerdenstein wrote:
gamer0004 wrote:Fancy, does that mean I can choose which elements of GMDX to install? Because the videos have made me really want to try some of the changes but I'm not excited about all of them (some seem rather immersion-breaking).
Only inasmuch as you can disable GMDX's maps and music changes.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wgk6boen8tcd6x/dx3.PNG
That would result in many issues though: Hardcore mode wouldn't work, the game would crash in the 747, changes to skills would be a mess, the majority of AI changes would be non-existent and so on. GMDX absolutely needs it's maps, which is why I am trying my damn hardest to make sure they are nothing short of awesome :)

Just FYI also, the 2027 music is no longer included in the mod but will be an optional add-on. I love the music and think it fits like a glove and adds more variety but two playtesters disagreed and music is highly subjective so it's definitely something to make optional.

What do you think of the music?
nerdenstein
Illuminati
Posts: 1591
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:40 pm
Location: Leicester, England, UK.

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by nerdenstein »

Cybernetic pig wrote:
nerdenstein wrote:
gamer0004 wrote:Fancy, does that mean I can choose which elements of GMDX to install? Because the videos have made me really want to try some of the changes but I'm not excited about all of them (some seem rather immersion-breaking).
Only inasmuch as you can disable GMDX's maps and music changes.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wgk6boen8tcd6x/dx3.PNG
That would result in many issues though: Hardcore mode wouldn't work, the game would crash in the 747, changes to skills would be a mess, the majority of AI changes would be non-existent and so on. GMDX absolutely needs it's maps, which is why I am trying my damn hardest to make sure they are nothing short of awesome :)

Just FYI also, the 2027 music is no longer included in the mod but will be an optional add-on. I love the music and think it fits like a glove and adds more variety but two playtesters disagreed and music is highly subjective so it's definitely something to make optional.

What do you think of the music?
I wasn't sure if it would cause issues. It didn't mine when I was play testing briefly earlier but changes you've made to maps (such as the save points) would obviously be non existent of course so yes, I agree the maps for your mod are a must. :smile:
I was simply demonstrating how Kentie's launcher could be utilized and how I really like the new layout. :smile:

As for the additional music in your mod, I didn't have a problem with it. In fact, in some cases it was quite a welcome change. :mrgreen:
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

You do have a dated version of the mod also, only three months or so dated, but I work on it very regularly so there is quite a bit more content and polish.
And my partner, whilst he doesn't work quite so regularly on it, without him this mod would be...not so good.

Glad you think the music fits :) More variety and depth is almost always good, as long as it fits.
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Any votes in favour of removing the light effect for ballistics impact but keeping the smoke and spark effect? DX does use tracer rounds, which give off light, but I'm having second thoughts. Perhaps changing the light brightness to a puny value of 8 would be better, so it only shows up in dark areas.
User avatar
gamer0004
Illuminati
Posts: 1215
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:53 pm

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by gamer0004 »

I'm actually pretty excited for almost all your changes, but there are a few small things which seem like deal breakers to me, because I care very much about immersion and the relatively understated style of technology in DX. My issues, based on the videos:

1. "Runners". Do I understand correctly that these are patrolling NPCs which always run? Apart from the fact that the DX running animation in this context looks rather weird, nobody runs while patrolling. Patrolling must be done 24/7. Hence running or even jogging is not an option. You could perhaps increase the walking speed of some (especially more professional) NPCs?

2. Flamethrowers on bots. I don't see why they would be necessary from a gameplay perspective (those machine guns hit pretty hard), and I certainly don't see why this would be useful in reality. It makes it look like something from bad sci fi (in my opinion, this unfortunately means 99% of all sci fi), added only to look cool. One of the reasons why I liked DX so much is because its technology was relatively sensible (no flying robots, chainsaws, flamethrowers, transformers or whatever - unlike Invisible War).

3. Rockets on small bots. I don't think it is canon; if it is, it certainly doesn't make sense. These bots are mainly used in third world countries according to in-game info, but rockets are expensive. Also, it's a small robot, where would the rockets go? And why arm an anti-personnel robot with rockets? Machine guns are cheaper, at least as effective and do the job with far less collateral damage. And finally, is cloaking on these robots canon? Even if it is, it doesn't suit the cheap, low-key style of these things in my opinionl; it makes them too sci fi.

4. Tracing effect on the ballistic shield (? or is it an emp shield) of Simons. To me it looks really "gamey" if you get what I mean, more like the sort of thing you would see in an MMO to communicate things clearly to the player rather than something we would see IRL.
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

The only one I'd consider changing is the bot rockets/cloaking as it contradicts with lore, yet these third world/commercial grade bots appear in Area51, most notably as the defenders of Helios of all things, so the devs contradicted their own details. (yes that's beside the point, I know).

The Tracing effect stays, it does a wonderful job. Not sure how it is any more "gamey" than the nano defense effect of the mechs/simons/commandos.
It serves a couple of purposes, and they are rather important ones.

Runners: Immersion breaking, perhaps, but you are assuming. You are assuming they are running 24/7. Why not assume they are only running for 10 mins at a time? You can hang around and watch them to prove otherwise; indeed they do infinite loop, but at that point of watching that long the Superfreighter would have began heading back to Hong Kong, or the other "normal" patrolling guards would have gone for a shit and a coffee break, or JC would begin to need some food or a piss or fall asleep from the boredom, but none of this happens, we need to assume stuff happens to maintain immersion, assume all doesn't revolve around the player. Waiting around on any map in the game it becomes clear that all does revolve around the player because fuck all happens. you need to keep moving to maintain Immersion, therefore you will not see these runners for more than a few minutes at a time (they are very rare also, just so you know).
I did consider adding a break in their routine but this very thought above occurred to me. I may still add it though, because the more believability the better, I may have just been a little lazy with that.

Flamethrower bots. Not quite pointless, they give more worth to the hazmat/environ skill, fire extinguishers and energy shield.
Furthermore, it's again something that the original devs did, I just gave it to all bots of that type. Load up NYC_Dockyard and check out the SecurityBot2's on that map, they have flamethrower.
However, I do respect your opinion that it is perhaps a little silly. Would bot manufacturers/designers 40 years from now include a flamethrower? Due to it's lack of range one would believe it to be inefficient, but the bot is programmed to only use it when in the appropriate range. I cannot say whether bots that shoot fire will be a thing, and whether that's bad sci-fi or not. Who knows what the future holds? Either way I think you are definitely being too picky with this one, especially since it was in the vanilla game.

But yes, the commercial-grade bots having rockets is perhaps contradictory with lore, this is the most valid complaint. As for the "where are the rockets stored" question: where are MJ12 commando mini-rockets stored (and they have plenty, sit there for 10 mins with god mode and watch them if you like). Where does JC keep his arsenal?
It comes down to this: Necessary Immersion-breakers and unnecessary ones. All Immersive Sims have them. You are welcome to hold the opinion that those new features are unnecessary immersion breakers where the positives do not outweigh the negatives, or whether they should be considered immersion breakers at all.
If you continue to be bothered by them, I hope you at least have a good time with all the other aspects of the mod, and I'll strongly consider removing the rockets and cloaking of the bots, or only make late game appearances use them, such as those aforementioned ones at Helios' chamber :)
Cybernetic pig
Illuminati
Posts: 2284
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:21 am

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Half an hour of re-arranging and here is the new Batt.Park skybox: http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s64 ... fe2d71.jpg
nerdenstein
Illuminati
Posts: 1591
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:40 pm
Location: Leicester, England, UK.

Re: GMDX: Gameplay Mod. (HDTP Compatible)

Post by nerdenstein »

Have you considered adding grenades to enemies yet? ;)
That's still a thing I want to try, even if it's just EMP grenades? It would give more weight to the Energy Shield aug and make sense in certain missions where UNATCO and MJ12 were actively hunting JC (in NYC during the 'Ton raid and the return after that when you're meeting with Dowd.)
And maybe give Chinese Police in the Market Gas Grenades for example?

If balancing is an issue, is there a way to make it so NPC's can equip and use the grenades but so the player can't loot them from corpses like in Human Revolution for example?
The real trouble with reality is that there's no background music.
Post Reply