GMDX: v4. (HDTP Compatible)

[DDL]

Yep, you just need M04MeetGateGuard_Played (he's the guy at the beginning of the UNATCO signal centre), and to have not sent the signal, so you could just turn up, say "mind if I look around", then immediately leave and talk to paul, and you'll get that conversation.

[Jonas]

"Mind if I look around?"

"Not at all."

"WELL TO BAD, because I'm NOT GONNA!" *Runs off back the way he came.*

*Blinks*

[Cybernetic pig]

More Hardcore encouragement: not only does it improve challenge, balance and choice & consequence design, it is also convenient in that the game saves for you automatically so there are no moments where a death overpunishes you due to the distracted player forgetting to save for a while. Consequences of death is progress lost, progress lost is intended to be 1-15 minutes maximum, depending on player skill and other variables. The intent is a fair challenge.

[G-Flex]

Is there a possibility that i could get the command line working with GMDX? I want to change some settings and so on, but i cannot activate it.

Nope. That's part of the hardcore deal. No challenge destroying cheats, no immersion breaking commands. Developer's tool, not players ;)
it's one thing I believe shouldn't be the player's choice for this particular mode. Not choosing hardcore mode enables console cammands.

I could swear I already posted this, but:

There are legitimate uses for the console aside from "cheating". For example: Setting advanced graphics rendering settings, taking screenshots, or any number of arbitrary things related to testing or whatever else. Completely disabling it is sort of user-hostile.

[Cybernetic pig]

If people are not prepared to sacrifice those things, edit via .ini files or take a screenshot using other methods then they should play any of the other difficulty modes. It's part of the optional hardcore deal and there are plenty of games out there that do not allow console commands.

Besides, all of Hardcore mode is "user-hostile" as it locks a few settings such as no saving anywhere an unlimited amount of times and no weapon auto reload. If you do not have experience with these type of "true" challenges (unable to weasel out with cheats or save scumming) in gaming then I do not expect you to understand. In the end it's optional and has no effect on the player who doesn't choose the option.

[G-Flex]

If people are not prepared to sacrifice those things, edit via .ini files or take a screenshot using other methods then they should play any of the other difficulty modes. It's part of the optional hardcore deal and there are plenty of games out there that do not allow console commands.

Besides, all of Hardcore mode is "user-hostile" as it locks a few settings such as no saving anywhere an unlimited amount of times and no weapon auto reload. If you do not have experience with these type of "true" challenges (unable to weasel out with cheats or save scumming) in gaming then I do not expect you to understand. In the end it's optional and has no effect on the player who doesn't choose the option.

1. You don't have to get so offended. Seriously. I have experiences with "true challenges" (I play roguelikes, for Christ's sake, and have intentionally played Deus Ex in at least a few intentionally-difficult ways), and I understand what you're trying to do. Please don't act like I can't possibly understand what you're doing just because I think your method in doing it is a bit flawed.
2. I'm not talking about savescumming or cheating. When I say "user-hostile" I'm talking about making things more difficult or annoying for the user, not the difficulty of the game itself. I'm talking about other, legitimate uses of the command console that someone might end up wanting or needing to use in-game. Completely disabling the console just to avoid the player cheating is throwing the baby out with the bathwater; there are better ways to accomplish it.

[DDL]

Code: Select all

function playertick(float DT)
{
   if(bCheatsenabled)
      bCheatsenabled=false;

  super.playertick(DT);
}

The passive-aggressive anticheat method.

Disclaimer, not at m'coding comp, so might not work. Multiplayertick might be better. Well, no, still hilariously stupid, but more functionally so.

[Cybernetic pig]

[*]I'm not talking about savescumming or cheating. When I say "user-hostile" I'm talking about making things more difficult or annoying for the user, not the difficulty of the game itself. I'm talking about other, legitimate uses of the command console that someone might end up wanting or needing to use in-game.

Such as?

http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Deus_Ex_console_commands

I'm not seeing anything the player would need. You could be right and there is something worthwhile as I have never used them except during development and to view the DX party and other eggs. However everything I'm seeing on that Wiki page needed disabling.

Perhaps it is wrong to disable all commands, but now find every design decision that is "right" and shower me with praise?
Actually I'd prefer you point out other flaws, if any. Go all out. I'm still not convinced disabling all commands is a bad decision though.

[DDL]

Well, that's a list of things you need bCheatsenabled to do, because those are cheats.

There's a lot of stuff you don't need cheats for, but DO need the console for (sshot, stat fps, etc).

Plus the showactors bit of the legend menu is incredibly useful for testing purposes.

You might also consider that providing a difficulty mode that exclusively caters to those who want a punishingly hard time sort of self-selects for those that are unlikely to cheat their way through it.

It's like ripping all the ropes out of a rockface so the free-climbers can't use them even though they don't actually want to. You're losing utility to prevent something that shouldn't happen anyway.

[Cybernetic pig]

No, you're looking at it in the wrong way. It's the same for the save system: do most people want to save scum? No, I doubt it, but the temptation is always there. This eliminates that temptation, for one.

FPS display, sshot? there are various other methods for accomplishing these things. Testing? Play on any other difficulty.

As for your "passive-aggressive" anti-cheat code, perhaps that would have been better but what is done is done. This "problem" is extremely minor and there are no intentions to change it.

It's like ripping all the ropes out of a rockface so the free-climbers can't use them even though they don't actually want to. You're losing utility to prevent something that shouldn't happen anyway.

Actually, it's ensuring a fair challenge between the rockface and the climbers. Furthermore without the option of invincibility or any other sillyness tempting the climbers they will really feel the heat, life or death tension, challenge. They will know they have no net to fall back on when things get tough.

You might also consider that providing a difficulty mode that exclusively caters to those who want a punishingly hard time sort of self-selects for those that are unlikely to cheat their way through it.
.

I wouldn't say it's particularly hard. Any rogue-like out there, Dark Souls, 8/16-bit games, this mod is not on that level of difficulty, especially with all the options available. It's designed for Deus Ex vets (go play it), not masochists.

And yes, of course that was considered. I myself am someone who looks for a challenge; the problem in this case is the temptation. You do not feel it, the challenge and tension that is, when you know there is always that net. Furthermore that feeling can increase the immersion a player experiences.

Edit: I guess you got the impression that the mod is insanely hard from other posters saying they got "stuck" for three hours or whatever. They only have themselves to blame for that as there are so many options available at any given time and the AI are very predictable, especially for a vet. Just have to use your head and consider your options. It's great as it may push you into trying something you never had before too.

[G-Flex]

FPS display, sshot? there are various other methods for accomplishing these things. Testing? Play on any other difficulty.

There are not other methods for the kinds of features that things like "stat fps" do. There just aren't. At least certainly nothing particularly good, at all.

Also: "play on another difficulty" is really dismissive. Why should they have to play on another difficulty setting for it? And what if they specifically want to test things on that difficulty setting?


At any rate, it would have probably been somewhat easy to even effectively put commands on a whitelist, such that the console only allows certain commands and no others. Disabling it is easier, yeah, but having it completely disabled just sounds like a pain in the ass to someone like me, who's used to being able to test something if necessary... which is probably even more important when it's someone else's mod you're talking about (which may sometimes require testing, especially if bugs are suspected or confirmed) and the people you're catering to are veterans who might be used to those features existing.

[Cybernetic pig]

At any rate, it would have probably been somewhat easy to even effectively put commands on a whitelist, such that the console only allows certain commands and no others. Disabling it is easier, yeah, but having it completely disabled just sounds like a pain in the ass to someone like me, who's used to being able to test something if necessary... which is probably even more important when it's someone else's mod you're talking about (which may sometimes require testing, especially if bugs are suspected or confirmed) and the people you're catering to are veterans who might be used to those features existing.

If debugging hardcore mode is required then we'll see to it. No hardcore bugs have been reported since the final release 3 months ago and it had adequate testing beforehand. It's clean. Sure, bugs can require a certain sequence before being triggered, but then that bug is a rare anomaly and we probably wouldn't give a shit, depends on importance.

There are also plenty of commands that are cheats yet not labelled as such in the code.

No commands are exclusive to that one mode that changes just a few things, seriously this is not an issue, I have no regrets. If you want to test some crap then just put the game on easy or whatever, or recompile the DeusEx.u with commands enabled

Also: "play on another difficulty" is really dismissive. Why should they have to play on another difficulty setting for it?

Because they knew (or should have known) that no commands was part of the deal before starting.

Why should we spend our time making a whitelist for the minuscule minority. It's just not something I give a shit about to be honest as I see it as a non-issue.

And what if they specifically want to test things on that difficulty setting?

That's not possible without some code modifications. Tough luck.

[G-Flex]

If debugging hardcore mode is required then we'll see to it. No hardcore bugs have been reported since the final release 3 months ago and it had adequate testing beforehand. It's clean. Sure, bugs can require a certain sequence before being triggered, but then that bug is a rare anomaly and we probably wouldn't give a shit, depends on importance.

With all due respect, you can never, ever categorically say "it's clean" and be done with it, pretending that testing never ever needs to be done in the future. I've fixed bugs with pretty serious consequences for all players that I doubt many, if any of them ever noticed, including bugfixes to other people's bugfixes, and I've had people spot bugs in my own mod that I somehow failed to notice despite my habit of testing things fairly extensively and generally trying to know what I'm doing at each turn.

There are also plenty of commands that are cheats yet not labelled as such in the code.

You're already editing the code; you can edit those too. Seriously, you can pretty much do anything you want.

Because they knew (or should have known) that no commands was part of the deal before starting.

Of course we know that, or at least we do now. That's not my point. My point is that blocking access to an important in-game tool both for testing and other purposes (not just cheating!) just to eliminate "temptation" is far from the best way to do things.

Why should we spend our time making a whitelist for the minuscule minority. It's just not something I give a shit about to be honest as I see it as a non-issue.

Dude, you're making a balance fan-modification for a 13-year-old computer game. You're already doing this for a miniscule minority; it all just depends on what reference pool you're talking about. I could just as easily ask why you've spent your time doing this, or why I spend my time doing what I've done. I generally believe in doing the best job I can and not alienating users or responding to them derisively when they ask why I've done something, especially something as serious as disabling important and useful game engine features.

And what if they specifically want to test things on that difficulty setting?

That's not possible without some code modifications. Tough luck.

Responding to legitimate user requests with "tough luck" is not a very good way to make friends and influence people.

Seriously, if you had just said "yeah, that's probably not the best way to do things and might be annoying to some people, but I don't know if we want to put in the effort" then that would be one thing, but when you start flat-out denying any legitimate use of the feature you've disabled, or resorting to "if you don't like it, don't play" then you come off as kind of dickish, as if you care less about what your users actually want and more about defending your work at all costs.

[Cybernetic pig]

With all due respect, you can never, ever categorically say "it's clean" and be done with it

It's clean enough for me and all users so far, apparently. Again, there may be yet to be discovered bugs but if found they will likely be ignored, depending on significance.

as if you care less about what your users actually want and more about defending your work at all costs.

That's not how it is, I just dont see the problem here. It's unimportant as far as I am concerned. Many games don't give access to the console at all, we have only denied access for one of five difficulty options.

You're already editing the code; you can edit those too. Seriously, you can pretty much do anything you want.

I am aware of this.

Of course we know that, or at least we do now. That's not my point. My point is that blocking access to an important in-game tool both for testing and other purposes (not just cheating!) just to eliminate "temptation" is far from the best way to do things.

In my opinion it's not important enough.

I generally believe in doing the best job I can and not alienating users or responding to them derisively when they ask why I've done something, especially something as serious as disabling important and useful game engine features.

There's an alienation attempt in progress alright.

Those who want console commands on hardcore are out of luck, just as those who want quicksaves or weapon auto reload. If this is alienating consumers (despite hardcore being optional) then so be it.

I already stated that perhaps we could have been selective about which commands are disabled or not but it's just not work we are prepared to do, it's already been said.

Responding to legitimate user requests with "tough luck" is not a very good way to make friends and influence people

Tough luck is how it is. You cannot have everything in one playthrough; choice & consequence, just look at it like that
Requests made have always been considered except this one.

Dude, you're making a balance fan-modification for a 13-year-old computer game. You're already doing this for a miniscule minority; it all just depends on what reference pool you're talking about.

Exactly, so I'm not wasting any more time, especially on something so minor.

Go, enjoy the mod, feel free to bug hunt or test instead of enjoying yourself, just don't pick hardcore in that case.

[Cybernetic pig]

Had this lying around for some time so thought I'd upload it:

A guide for non-lethal-only stealth players: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UwaHryL ... e=youtu.be