Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

[Elias79]

Okay i now have some productive criticism of this of this great mod.

Putting zero skill points on stealth enemies still do not react until you get within 5 meters even though you are making alot of noise like running jumping hitting walls with metal objects etc, and they still can not spot you from over 100 meters away even
though you are in the spot light of the street lamps, this test was first done on easy but later also on realistic, sadly no difference, running sounds should at least be heard from 30 meters away unless you are sneaking when you are outside and maybe
10-20 meters inside depending on size of the rooms, visual spotting distance should be at least 200 meters if fully lit areas and maybe around 50-100 in the darker ones, i am not sure if this would be possible with with GMDX if not its the same request
i would have for revision.

Another thing that could be improved would be to give negative skill points when hostages are killed lets say -60 and 90 positive for each hostage you save, example hell's kitchen hostages in the hotel so if you only save on you get only 30 skill points if both die you loose 120 and if you save both you gain 180.

Things like stealth and head shots could give you skill points for example 20 for non lethal and undetected and 10 for a close range for head shots, then 5 more every 10 meters over 100 meters.

More points to come once i progress further.

[Cybernetic pig]

Very impressive work, thanks for creating this mod, i cant wait for new updates.

Okay i now have some productive criticism of this of this great mod.

Putting zero skill points on stealth enemies still do not react until you get within 5 meters even though you are making alot of noise like running jumping hitting walls with metal objects etc, and they still can not spot you from over 100 meters away even
though you are in the spot light of the street lamps, this test was first done on easy but later also on realistic, sadly no difference, running sounds should at least be heard from 30 meters away unless you are sneaking when you are outside and maybe
10-20 meters inside depending on size of the rooms, visual spotting distance should be at least 200 meters if fully lit areas and maybe around 50-100 in the darker ones, i am not sure if this would be possible with with GMDX if not its the same request
i would have for revision.

Are you playing with Revision? Half of AI changes are done via GMDX's maps. Half of GMDX's content in general is implemented via the maps.

Another thing that could be improved would be to give negative skill points when hostages are killed lets say -60 and 90 positive for each hostage you save, example hell's kitchen hostages in the hotel so if you only save on you get only 30 skill points if both die you loose 120 and if you save both you gain 180.

Things like stealth and head shots could give you skill points for example 20 for non lethal and undetected and 10 for a close range for head shots, then 5 more every 10 meters over 100 meters.

More points to come once i progress further.

This is a strict no-no. skill points should be awarded for objectives and exploration only.

Rewarding XP for actions encourages the player to do said actions. The only thing that should be encouraged with XP in DX is exploration and objectives.
If xp is awarded for headshots and stealth, what about emergent gameplay? What about killing people by throwing crates a them? What about using grenades on enemies, you would be discouraged from doing so when headshots yield more xp. What about friendly fire or bot scrambling? What about the constant xp pop-ups, in addition to the sfx? What about sneaking past all enemies and then going back and headshotting them? Many things about DX's design was perfect and the xp reward methods were one of them.

[Elias79]

This is a strict no-no. skill points should be awarded for objectives and exploration only.

Rewarding XP for actions encourages the player to do said actions. The only thing that should be encouraged with XP in DX is exploration and objectives.
If xp is awarded for headshots and stealth, what about emergent gameplay? What about killing people by throwing crates a them? What about using grenades on enemies, you would be discouraged from doing so when headshots yield more xp. What about friendly fire or bot scrambling? What about the constant xp pop-ups, in addition to the sfx? What about sneaking past all enemies and then going back and headshotting them? Many things about DX's design was perfect and the xp reward methods were one of them.

Well that is true, did not consider that, it could still be something that would be off by default if it was a popular feature, to make that balanced you would need to award everything on how well its executed and then balances it very carefully, or simple add more exploration areas and defined mission objectives.

Are you playing with Revision? Half of AI changes are done via GMDX's maps. Half of GMDX's content in general is implemented via the maps.

No i don't have access to revision yet.

[Cybernetic pig]

Well that is true, did not consider that, it could still be something that would be off by default if it was a popular feature, to make that balanced you would need to award everything on how well its executed and then balances it very carefully,

Another problem is it would accumulate to plenty more XP awarded in a playthrough, when in the original design it is intentional that you cannot have more than half of the skills (if that) in a single playthrough for balancing, choice and consequence and replayability.

I wouldn't even want it as an optional feature. Waste of time, and some things should be forced on the player. The devs forced replayability, choice and consequence and balance through these systems and I only want to refine and expand upon that design.

or simple add more exploration areas and defined mission objectives.

Well there are a few more secret areas. They are always underwater, in irradiated areas or behind something locked (including electronic locks) to give those corresponding skills more weight.

More feedback will be appreciated.

Anyway, now I know you are not using Revision, what problem are you having with the stealth skill? The AI are a lot more perceptive and reactive than vanilla, the stealth skill just makes it easier to avoid AI and sets primary perceptions back closer to vanilla.
You want them to have greater hearing ability and vision range by default? Both these things are greater than vanilla. Augmented enemies also have better vision than your standard troops, resulting in late game enemies being a touch more challenging for stealth players, even if it's barely noticable.

[Elias79]

Well as i said, if im playing on realistic and they can not hear me from over 5 m when im running loud as can be from behind with no points invested in stealth that is not a problem with GMDX but the hard coded limits in the game i assume, please correct me if im wrong about this, same goes for them not being able to spot you in fully lit areas from over 100m when you are clearly visible, this was also tested with 0 points spent on stealth, so im not sure if this is something that could be improved without rewriting the AI or not, other things i noticed is that the AI do not react to sounds coming from the moving of boxes and crates even though its very loud same thing with hitting the crowbar on walls etc, i will give more feedback once i progressed longer using GMDX, still a great mod even though it can be improved.

[Cybernetic pig]

Well as i said, if im playing on realistic and they can not hear me from over 5 m when im running loud as can be from behind with no points invested in stealth that is not a problem with GMDX but the hard coded limits in the game i assume, please correct me if im wrong about this

I had their hearing set even higher before but I thought it was a bit extreme and toned it down a touch. The hearing ability of NPCs now is the best result I find (after much testing). Better than vanilla; more believable and challenging, but not too extreme.

, same goes for them not being able to spot you in fully lit areas from over 100m when you are clearly visible, this was also tested with 0 points spent on stealth, so im not sure if this is something that could be improved without rewriting the AI or not

Both hearing and vision are better than vanilla, but it is possible for them to be set even higher. I don't want it to be crazy hard though, how far are you in the game? Remember that a lot of missions later on are set indoors with lots of close proximity encounters, so their perception is more unforgiving there (which is good as it helps stabilize the originally rapidly declining difficulty curve of the game).

other things i noticed is that the AI do not react to sounds coming from the moving of boxes and crates even though its very loud same

These should both be vanilla, in which they both sent a sound event to alert AI, this sound event not having a very large radius at all. Actually I'm not even sure melee weapons sent a sound event at all if striking geometry, but did when striking actors. Been a while so I am not certain.
I agree more should be done for these, for the striking of melee weapons against geometry at least.

still a great mod even though it can be improved

Indeed, same applies to nearly everything, no? Problem is I need help. I want to do so much more for this mod but the DX community is a graveyard.
I am looking for a highly competent programmer (for more AI improvements mainly) and an animator (just a few sequences on the wishlist) primarily, but people skilled in other disciplines are wanted too. Bigger the team the more aspects of design that can be improved., all whilst striving to stay true to the original design

[Cybernetic pig]

Coming soon: GMDX mutators.

All I have planned for now is vanilla dragon tooth sword behaviour (though still including a damage nerf), and the removal of sec bots having missiles and walker bots having flamethrowers.

Q: Why these things specifically? A: These are the only modifications of GMDX that have had multiple complaints, and I can understand why some disagree with these modifications though I personally believe they pass off as acceptable changes to DX's design that make things more interesting.

Q: I dislike feature x in GMDX and want it tweaked/removed. Can you modify it via mutator also? A: Only after consistent/numerous complains I'll consider adding it to the list. For now there has been few complaints at all though, all mostly focused on the above so this will probably be all there is.

[Cybernetic pig]

Oh, Elias, remember that the surface texture you are running on determines the amount of sound produced also. Without double checking the code I remember it as this: grass and other terrain type textures= quiet. Wood and concrete= Medium. Metal=loud.
Additionally GMDX changes landing from height to send a louder event (before it was just considered a normal footstep event) so that alerts enemies from quite far away unless you have stealth skill at trained, which cuts the event's radius in half.

[Cybernetic pig]

UNATCO TRAINING MANUAL

Section 4B: GMDX Weapon modifications

http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/images

[Cybernetic pig]

v6 public beta released: http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/downloads

Feedback appreciated.

Includes a user-friendly installer courtesy of ggrotz which cuts the installation process in half.
And of course v6 contains further new features and refinements such as redesigned recoil systems, further balancing of overall gameplay, further map improvements (primarily a focus on adding aesthetic detail this time around) and bug fixes.

[Cybernetic pig]

Version 6 Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLTwOoq ... e=youtu.be

[kdawg88]

Looks great dude, I will use it for my next playthrough, once I escape from assignment hell.

[Cybernetic pig]

Someone started a let's play/walkthrough with GMDX, HDTP. New Vision and the DX10 renderer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPJbHnzvykE

The LP'er is a young'un but he is a decent player and it's rather entertaining despite it being the slow parts of DX so far, at least it was for me.
The quality is bad also but he solved that in the second episode.

He makes some incorrect statements about GMDX also but meh.

[ggrotz]

Someone started a let's play/walkthrough with GMDX, HDTP. New Vision and the DX10 renderer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPJbHnzvykE

The LP'er is a young'un but he is a decent player and it's rather entertaining despite it being the slow parts of DX so far, at least it was for me.
The quality is bad also but he solved that in the second episode.

He makes some incorrect statements about GMDX also but meh.

Watching it. Notice so far he didn't turn on the HDTP characters.

[Cybernetic pig]

He does about half way through just to show viewers then turns them back off because he says he dislikes them (and gives reasoning as to why).