Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

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Made in China
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Made in China »

I'm glad I could convince you - it's just that the use of "non-lethal" rounds as a means of preserving the protagonist's innocence while still letting him kick ass (see: Batman) really gets to me lately. You can't use extremely excessive force and still be merciful - that's not the way the world works.

Props to whoever came up with it in the first place, though. Getting the perk lets you have the combat effect of non-lethal weapons, such as the prod (or a similar effect), while using rifles. That's what perks are all about, so I totally support that.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Well design decisions shouldn't always be primarily be driven by realism, but since the gameplay impact is near-negligible either way I just may do that.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/images/v ... olor-theme

Create your own custom color themes.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Jaedar »

You should read this post if you haven't already CyberP:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.ph ... st-4036919
The mod is almost PERFECT as it is, except for a couple of things, some minor stuff but also some questionable stuff. So here is a list of some nitpicks not in any particular order.
It's pretty long.
"Delays are temporary; mediocrity is forever."
odio ergo sum
Cybernetic pig
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Tell him to cool his shit regarding v8. I don't make "perfection" and then completely lose sight of my design ideals and principles and fuck everything up. v8 will double the "perfection".
I'll be revealing big things soon.
Made in China
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Made in China »

While he's overly enthusiastic, I think he has some valid points. I mean, his initial reaction was almost the same as mine, thinking perks don't really fit into Deus Ex.
That being said, it will address some of the other problems he had. Having to spend more skill points on perks rather than on skills can help balancing the game, although now I'm wondering if they can't be integral to the skill level in exchange for raising their cost (although it would drop the number of perks because untrained would get squat).

Also, now that he has found the drone glitch, I really suggest turning it into a secondary feature. Jumping with the speed aug, then gliding using the drone as a sort of fast transport. I think it would also be extremely fun in places like the UC, Hell's Kitchen, the Cathedral and Paris in general. Next up, UT's grapple mod (at least I think it started there) which will break every vertical level in the game.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Here's a little update: http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/images

"now I'm wondering"

Yessiree, speculation. The perk system is a great addition and I implemented it for a great variety of reasons, all of which are suitable to Deus Ex.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Made in China »

All of the new additions look really good. I especially like the new weapon stats. It gives you a scope of how much the weapon can be modded and if it's worth investing in.
Speaking of scope, is it really solved? I remember that same issue popping up in TNM, when you used something like the gas mask. I think Jonas said it was basically an image overlay, and therefore when using high res the image would appear so small. Isn't it the same with the scope view?

And yeah, "now I'm wondering". I haven't tried the perk system yet, so I can't be sure. Preemptive criticism is always something I'm against, especially when it's directed at something innovative. However, he still brought up some good points that will probably pop up when v8 is released - so even if they won't change anything, it would be a good idea to address them.

Still waiting for comments on the drone glider. That's one improvement I'd really (really!) like to see.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

All of the new additions look really good.
That is only what I decide to show/can even show. I work on this nearly every day, and a lot of stuff just isn't marketable visually. I'd like to make a video series of spoken presentations of the many, many features, but my hardware is shit and I'm poor. All I earn has to go straight on the bills. I wouldn't have it any other way for now I don't think. We don't need business interfering with good design like it does all those other Deus Ex games.

Spy drone glider...I don't think it would be suitable. It has the potential to eliminate platforming as a gameplay element, which is why I think I'll fix the bug too. I don't like the idea of removing options, but said options must exist logically within the context of the game world and game rules.
I think Jonas said it was basically an image overlay, and therefore when using high res the image would appear so small. Isn't it the same with the scope view?
The scope view "fix" is just the HDTP scope view doubled in size. It looks great in-game, although at lower screen resolutions it goes off the screen a bit. I don't intend to compromise for potatoes though. If you have to play the game at 800x600 you should have the lesser experience.
Of course if I had artists no such compromise would be necessary, but this will be adequate for the time being. I hate the tiny-ass scope.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Made in China »

Cybernetic pig wrote:Spy drone glider...I don't think it would be suitable. It has the potential to eliminate platforming as a gameplay element, which is why I think I'll fix the bug too. I don't like the idea of removing options, but said options must exist logically within the context of the game world and game rules.
Well, isn't it the point of specialization? You specialize in stealth to avoid combat. You specialize in demolitions to avoid lockpicking. With my suggestion, you have something to counterpart athletics.
But to be honest, I haven't given it much thought outside how fun it would be to just glide around the hubs. I first thought of Tonnochi Road, and how having an alternate way of entering Jock's apartment can be a real plus.

But hey, I'm willing to back down. I can see it not really fitting with the tone of Deus Ex, even if it's something I would personally love to at least try out.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

"I first thought of Tonnochi Road, and how having an alternate way of entering Jock's apartment can be a real plus."

You can jump from Chow's apartment to Jock's.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Made in China »

Backwards! the main gameplay reason to get in Jock's apartment in vanilla DX is so you can assassinate Chow and/or her maid without setting foot in her apartment, thus lessening the risk of alarming the MJ12 troops. Otherwise, it's quite empty, and you can get into Chow's apartment quite easily through other methods (elevator/shaft and the back entrance).
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

Well, we've already got speed enhancement, box stacking & mantling. Whilst I won't deny that a spy drone glider has the potential to be fun I just don't see it being a desirable fit. By all means I could have the wrong idea about it though. I'm 15% open to the possibility of a different perspective convincing me otherwise :P I love the jetpack in Duke Nukem 3D for instance, and that game is typically about as open as DX in level design - when DX maps are open, they are really open, but when they are linear, they can be reasonably so. Nukem 3D is more consistently in-between on the openness scale.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Made in China »

Well, I'm not sure I can be totally convincing, but here goes.
As it stands, the drone glider gives you the benefit of quick movement in places that aren't covered by current augs and skills, such as the speed aug (ground) and athletics/swimming (water). It's at a disadvantage among them, however, because it needs to be "recharged" - you cannot use it freely, and you need to invest in it by going to a higher location. That's what differentiates it from flying, which can be totally broken due to the lack of enemies possessing to ability to fly.

So, gameplay wise, how does it factor in? Well, apart from being another facet of quick movement, it can help if you picked the stealth route and chose silent running/no aug instead of the speed aug. It will open previously unavailable routes at a much higher energy cost, but even then some of the paths will not be open for you since they are located at the highest point of the map.

Balance wise, it will probably act as a major alternate route for combat, and a minor alternate route for speed aug/athletics.
For combat, let's take Vandenberg for instance. Instead of walking out the front door, you will probably want to return to the higher levels and glide past the bots, thus avoiding combat of the front door or the stealth of the back entrance. That is probably the most extreme example, maybe apart from Paris.
For exploration, gaining access to Jock's apartment from his own roof is probably the best I can think of. It won't be useful at all for secrets which require swimming or gaining altitude, only for losing it.

And I think Deus Ex has big enough levels. (0)Statue of Liberty (don't have any augs then, which is a shame), (1)Hell's Kitchen+Warehouse, (2)Hong Kong+Tonnochi Road+Canals, (3)Naval Yard, (4)Vandenberg, (5)Paris+Champs Elysees(?)+Cathedral. That is at least 5 areas with sufficient air space for the glider, although Tonnochi Road is definitely on the slimmer side of things. Also, the Naval Yard has the biggest opportunity to use the glider right at the end when it's no longer needed, so it might be a bit deceptive.
Still, I think the opportunities do present themselves for a consistent use of this feature. Currently, the spy drone is very underpowered compared to ADS, and most importantly, if Adam Jensen had the Icarus system, we ought to one up him by giving JC a glider. Denton > Jensen in every aspect.
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Re: Deus Ex Advancement Mod v7 Release

Post by Cybernetic pig »

In v8.0 of GMDX the spy drone isn't inferior to the ADS. It has cloaking & noisemaker functionality. Bots are a greater threat and explosives are more rare (on higher difficulties at least), thus increasing the appeal of the spy drone some. Additionally, the ADS no longer detonates plasma bolts.

Even vanilla its worth was a little underestimated, for example it could be used to disable LAMs and such, and then you could pick the mines afterwards, and as we now know it also acted as a manually-activated Icarus Landing System. I'm tempted to keep that but it would cause problems (much like the glider would) such as getting out of the map and greater potential to sequence break than before, in addition to eliminating the risk in platforming if used intelligently. I don't know, on one hand I very much value the risk, the challenge and the tension involved with jumping around up on billboards and such (Tonnochi road) where certain death awaits you should you fall, but I also value options and emergent gameplay.
Like I said, I want options to exist logically within the context of the game rules and setting, which your suggestion certainly could, but I'm still not certain I want to add such a thing. It would become a dominant choice over ADS regardless of the playstyle. As I mentioned, it would kill off platforming to some degree, and provoke such temptation to sequence break with little consequence (jump from the tower in the first Paris map down to the catacombs square for example) and get out of the map, at least without adding more damn invisible walls, and the whole concept of JC hanging from the little drone that usually requires remote control and the user to be stationary seems a bit wild...yet I acknowledge it would be fun and the little details could be changed anyhow.
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