Animations

Talon19892 · Post by **Talon19892** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:21 am

I have a question about the HDTP mod. Will you also be improving character animations? I've always hated the way that when a character strafes left and they animate as though they are strafing right. And the way that character's hold their weapon in one hand when firing from a crouched position, no matter how large the weapon is. (It could be a GEP gun!) Will you be changing that in HDTP?

Darkshade · Post by **Darkshade** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:58 am

Character animations will be redone, but I do not know if that particular issue will be addressed.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:10 am

IDEA ALERT!

I got specifically told NOT to post this,(refer to the functionality issue i brought up) but seeing as the Issue came up not by me I will post my theory and I don't expect it to be accepted. I'm trying to avoid posting stuff like this.

there is a book on how to operate a hand gun correctly in Smugglers room.

Now it says something about holding a gun down before firing. You may have seen this method used by SWAT, the Police force and other organisations. This is the correct way to hold a hand gun. Before firing the gun must be faced down, then you must pull the gun up (line it up with the taget) and fire, before lowering it again. This would apply with the assualt rifle and shotgun as well. (in 1st person mode the weapon would be lowered not as much as it would in 3rd person, so that it dosen't effect the gameplay)

ASSUMPTION: what i have always assumed is that the targeting chrosshiar is not actually accuracy, rather it is the concentration and speed that JC has to line up the target to the weapon(this explains the whole skill system effects). Whilst the accuracy of a weapon improves this as well using calibration. (explaining the mods)

Next: Sword weapons.

We should apply a combat style to them. I recommend either Kendo or Ninjitsu. (unless someone can come up with a better combat stlye) It would add technique to the animations, at the moment it looks really really slopy because Sword Fighting styles are deadly and graceful. Plus it'll look awsome during the fight between JC and WS.

Is Ninjitsu Chinese or Japanese? cause we need a chinese style for the Triads. (the tunnel fight in particular)

Is this too much of a change, am i going to far? I've tried to keep this in the bounds of HDTPs scope using already existing data from the game. I dont intend on backing up my idea this time, if you see no feasiblity i will drop it... unlike my previous outbursts where i've taken defense.

I hope this adds something constructive to the discussion.

[EDIT] Relevence to the issue, ALL weapons except those handled by anna navara should be 2 handed animations to avoid this issue.

[EDIT AGAIN] Holding the gun down should only be active when Running!!!!

justanotherfan · Post by **justanotherfan** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:09 am

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote:IDEA ALERT!

I got specifically told NOT to post this,(refer to the functionality issue i brought up) but seeing as the Issue came up not by me I will post my theory and I don't expect it to be accepted. I'm trying to avoid posting stuff like this.

UNAUTHORIZED POST ;-)

It depends how it looks in game. It might be a little silly looking when running since there'd be a delay to shoot. The sword in the proper position could obscure vision. Beyond that, people in popular culture simply don't hold guns properly, it's a known fact - you look like a goof in the proper stance for a handgun.

Of course, I do remember the melee animation looking idiotic, like he was knighting people with the sword, knocking them in the head with a stick.

I say change the bad animations, and assume that Denton's aiming is augmented. Change the shooting animation for the UNATCO troops if it needs it.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:16 am

It depends how it looks in game. It might be a little silly looking when running since there'd be a delay to shoot. The sword in the proper position could obscure vision. Beyond that, people in popular culture simply don't hold guns properly, it's a known fact - you look like a goof in the proper stance for a handgun.

Are you sure about that? I recall skully and mulder never drew a gun with one hand in the Xfiles.

Of course, I do remember the melee animation looking idiotic, like he was knighting people with the sword, knocking them in the head with a stick.

precisely why i came up with this whole idea.

Darkshade · Post by **Darkshade** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:30 am

Ninjitsu is Japanese. I do not reccomend this for sword fighting. There are more sword oriented martial arts that'ld be better.
If we were to accuratly recreate the sword motions of true martial arts, we'ld have to A) assume JC knew that martial art, and B) do strikes such as the Shomen, which would block most of the screen.
A great idea, but I don't think people would like it

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:44 am

I think basing the melee animations on real sword fighting styles could work for those NPC's we can assume would know these styles, but keep one thing in mind: There is not one melee animation for each melee weapon. In fact I believe there is only one melee attack animation altogether. You cannot animate the sword to use some sort of awesome Chinese fighting style without the Baton using that same animation. How cool with it look when a riot cop uses a l33t sword-technique with his puny little baton?

You could of course just make one animation for each melee weapon in the game and code up the new weapons to use the proper animations, but Deus Ex has a lot of character animations as it is, I don't know how happy Phasmatis would be to add 20 new melee attack animations all needed to be based on various fighting-styles which - presumably - he would need to research heavily before recreating.

Post by **DDL** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:11 am

I don't know how happy Phasmatis would be

Yes you do. About as happy as you would to have to suddenly rewrite all of the TNM lines to allow players to choose a male or female player character.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:42 am

Lets simplfy the styles then. The most basic proper form of fighting is the Italian style (about 1000-1100AD during the crusades) where they use over head strikes. However it would look fairly stupid seeing triads using a european fighting style. Kendo and Ninjitsu are the most common sword fighting styles that i know of, and the only two that focus on Katarna/Dakatarna fighting. Well then, we simply need to look at a more realistic fighting style then. one that could universally work to match all characters and not look as crap as the existing animations do.

As for hand guns.. What? no crit yet? I expected that to be a much larger issue, explaining why i did a better job with my research. If you guys think its a good idea, i'll go do some data mining and bring everything to the tabel for everyone to pick at. if thats alright with you guys. Everyones comments are very valid at this point which is good so maybe this is a constructive idea.

But the main issue was a bug with animations which we will most certainly have to deal with. maybe my idea is the solution to that?

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:00 pm

I see no issue with your pistol suggestion. You're basically saying Phasmatis should take care to animate the firing sequences to always use two hands, right? Doesn't seem like a problem to me, but ultimately, it's Phas' choice.

As for the fighting styles... why don't we just agree that the old melee attack animation was bad and trust that Phasmatis will make one that looks better? And then leave it at that...

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:17 pm

sure sure.. Phas did a great job with the death scenes anyway and i do trust him. Well its all good then.. thanks for understanding jonas. Now we just wait on Phas to give word on what he thinks afterall he's the one doing it all.

I also wanted to apply the gun pointing down thing to Running only.. if thats alright. (is there an animation for running with a gun? and will this effect shooting while running?)

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:46 pm

I think the animation for running with a gun is the same animation for running without a gun. There's a seperate animation for running with a two-handed weapon, but that's not used for pistols of course.

Talon19892 · Post by **Talon19892** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:15 pm

My opinion, as a guy who is anticipating the mod, is that the gameplay should remain the same, as that's kinda what makes Deus Ex a classic. I'm not mad or ranting here, but if you go off changing gameplay elements, you're sort of destroying the authenticity of the game.

I expected this mod would be an improvment to the textures and animations, basically improving the outdated graphics, I don't want any gameplay changes, because then it's not Deus Ex anymore. It's a third-party remake. You should at least give the person installing the mod a choice of wether or not they want the gameplay changes, if you are going to be changing gameplay.

Darkshade · Post by **Darkshade** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:11 pm

If you had a baton, or a sword, or a billiards que, or a baseball bat, and somebody attacked you, would you:

A) Pull back into your martial arts fighting stance and p0wn him.

B) Use 1500's fighting styles to dismember his body parts.

C) Beat the everloving crap out of him till he's on the ground.

I rest my case.

Post by **Jonas** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:19 pm

D) Turn around and run away.