I can't play Deus Ex any more

[Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar]

Whenever I play it, the same thing happens. I decide that JC is going to live up to the billing that Manderley (according to Kaplan) has given him - a born-and-bred killer. He sweeps through every level annihilating enemy with total precision - generally I try and make his kills silent and undetected, but the odd firefight is always welcome to keep the skills sharp (the shaping touch of drills or something). I'm so good that Anna Navarre starts reving her actuators. (Actually, I wonder now, is that a good thing or a bad thing? That would also be consistant if she wanted to punch me too)

Yet suddenly, it all changes. JC's pacifist brother shows up, spouting some shit about how UNATCO can't be trusted and how the bad guys I've been dispatching with such grace and elegance are actually all good freedom fighters?

I dislike it. I want JC to side with Carter. JC is a talented and emminently followable soldier - he's clearly won the respect of the common UNATCO trooper from his exploits in the field - and yet he simply turns his back and begins to dispatch his old comrades without any attempt to take a different path? There are even hints of a third way in the dialogue - I'm sure that when daedalus' identity is discovered, the reason for his conduct is down to classifying MJ12 as a terrorist organisation too (albeit the greater threat). That doesn't mean that the NSF and Sillouhette are happy wonderfully peaceful tree friends. They're just less threatening.

What am I getting at? I think that Deus Ex should have had two divergent plot lines which split in the Secret MJ12 Facility. On the one hand - and this would be more consistant with the other playstyle, of a more peaceful and less 'killing machine' style playthrough - you can choose to side with Paul, run for Hong Kong and make contact with Tracer Tong. The other option would be to side with Carter. The way to improve UNATCO is for the best people to stay and fix it from the inside out. UNATCO would then (somehow) split itself from MJ12 and beginning taking the fight to everyone. Daedalus would support you, Alex would support you, Jaime Reyes would support you, others could be persuaded.

Rather than just 'UNATCO rather than Tong/Illuminati' the UNATCO path would be different. UNATCO would have broader goals, and the first task would be strikes against MJ12 strongholds. JC naturally taking a key role as UNATCO's best field operative. As MJ12's more easily detectible presences are eliminated, then UNATCO's sights would shift. The others would come under consideration - resuming the war on the NSF, Sillouhette et al. The culmination of it all could (perhaps) be in the aftermath of a raid led by Paul on Area 51, threatening everything that UNATCO had strived to establish. A race against time to get through the base and the bunker and get to Paul before he can destroy the Aquanis Router. Once there, the scene is set for a dramatic confrontation between the brothers where JC is forced to choose between his brother and his 'family' (UNATCO). Or is there a third way? So the three endings of the UNATCO path would be side with Paul and destroy everything, stick with UNATCO, take down Paul and continue running the world as it currently is (perhaps with a hint in the end-game cinematic of the illuminati or MJ12 lurking in the shadows slowly starting to get their hands on the strings), or some mysterious third option which wouldn't be that but also wouldn't be Helios because of a whole bunch of the Helios events never happening.

Yeah, it would have meant probably double the amount of work for the developers for a feature that wouldn't be extending the game at all - just adding to replayability. Yes there may be some questions about the UNATCO/MJ12 distinction and the ability of UNATCO, even if independent, to take down MJ12, but if we're changing the cannon, why not?

Anyway, whenever I get to the end of the UNATCO section of normal Deus Ex, I get depressed and sad and just start to feel miserable about being forced to take one side. Thus I can no longer play Deus Ex and enjoy it, and that's sad because Deus Ex should have forever been the best game I ever played.

[bobby 55]

It sounds like you are in serious need of some TNM.

[chris the cynic]

There are a couple of problems with this.

Having a born-and-bred killer side with Carter doesn't make perfect sense given that Carter explicitly disproves of heavy killing. Also potentially problematic is that Cater was kicked out, that Carter is willing to work with Silhouette, and that Carter has friends on the X-51 side of the whole thing.

Carter being kicked out is probably the easiest to deal with. He lost his job under Simons, and since Manderley was reassigned at least in part due to JC switching sides you can probably simply have Manderley stay and Carter stick around if JC remains loyal.

Carter working with Silhouette and being friendly with the X-51 people is potentially more difficult for him being the person you stick with in a pro-UNATCO game. Obviously he was never caught, otherwise he'd be imprisoned rather than laid off, but it seems problematic if he's your model of sticking with UNATCO. Also, at some point things are going to reach a point where he'd either have to take a stand or turn on his ideals. In the current game this sort of happens when he helps Silhouette and Daedalus beat UNATCO security to assist in JC's escape, but in a pro-UNATCO game as things progress the fact that he'd friends with two of UNATCO's sworn enemies is going to create more situations where overt action on his part would be required.

-

JC isn't ordered to kill Paul, but we know that Paul dies without JC's help so it isn't as if you can simply say, "Paul is doing what JC would have done," to try to keep the resistance floating. The biggest problem for this that I see is the action with which JC changes sides. Silhouette, for example, claims that warning signal JC sent saved them.

-

The largest problem with it though is that you're not talking about UNATCO as it appears in Deus Ex. Manderley is taking bribes from MJ12, Simons is allowed to walk in, murder two unarmed prisoners, and walk right back out. UNATCO HQ has an MJ12 base under it, meaning that if they ever show the smallest signs of disobedience a bunch of MJ12 troopers (and their bots) can come charging up the hall and destroy UNATCO's entire headquarters.

How many people do you think they can fit in a helicopter? Because that's probably how much of UNATCO can get away if they decide to rebel as an organization. They can't call ahead because MJ12 would hear that and then MJ12 would come out of the basement and lay waste.

Given we're talking about people who place bombs inside their top agents which can be triggered by speaking two words on the off chance they might one day switch sides ... I wouldn't be surprised if other UNATCO operations are kept on equally short leashes.

-

Of course, you have said that you're not really concerned with canon. So the above can basically be ignored.

(By the way, cannon is a type of artillery, the word with one n is what you mean.)

[fantsu]

Never kill any UNATCO troops, just use non lethal force.
Sometimes I go sadistic, like that old school buddy at the UNATCO HQ lobby, sitting at the table.
After escaping from UNATCO I burn him with an flamethrower, sneaking behind and blast off, or even gas grenade and then LAM him.


Other than that, I don't see UNATCO that good.
Just think the behavior of Anna Navarre and Gunther Hermann.
What about the killings of the prisoned NSF troops in UNATCO holding area?
The "WaltonSimons-incident" as I call it.

Even the first time I played Deus Ex, the NSF feld friendly.
Those terrorists just talked things that didn't sound so evil.
The Mercenaries are just ruled by the evil JoJo in the beginning. JoJo wants his cut.

And those two old bums at the free clinic. Even being old soldiers, they didnt hold big grudge against NSF.

Like the chat between JC and Kaplan "The Thief":
JC: "We're taking a minimum-force approach. We're cops, after all."
KAPLAN: "Ask me, I think we should frag 'em all. You trespass on UNATCO property, you get pumped full of lead."
JC: "When due process fails us, we really do live in a world of terror."

[justanotherfan]

DX did lack some choice when it came to Lebedev & MJ12 Facility. I have to admit I also had trouble at those points, "But I don't want to do what I'm just about to have to do. I'll just stand in the subway station below Gunther for a while...". Still, a lack of choice doesn't make it less playable for me, ignoring that I haven't been playing it.

I dislike it. I want JC to side with Carter. JC is a talented and followable soldier - he's clearly won the respect of the common UNATCO trooper from his exploits in the field - and yet he simply turns his back and begins to dispatch his old comrades without any attempt to take a different path?

What am I getting at? I think that Deus Ex should have had two divergent plot lines which split in the Secret MJ12 Facility.
The other option would be to side with Carter. The way to improve UNATCO is for the best people to stay and fix it from the inside out.

I agree, but then the game becomes Bureaucracy Simulator, where your job is to reform a UN institution. I agree that it would have been cool to have that second option, to go with Carter's idea of reforming a corrupt institution from the inside. Probably wouldn't have made for the ideal game, and it would have added a lot of work in development. It's starting to sound similar to the mod UNATCO:Born. More choice is good, but harder to do well.

The largest problem with it though is that you're not talking about UNATCO as it appears in Deus Ex.

True. It would have been problematic without story changes. JC would end up killing or getting rid of Manderly/Simons/Page anyway, and would probably still clash with Gunther/Anna as well. At least the Lebedev choice simulates that type of storyline fork for a short while. A JC vs. Paul fight could have been good, but we got something similar in Invisible War.

[kdawg88]

This is just an example of how hard it is to create a game that creates a perfect balance between linear and non linear elements. The Nameless Mod took 7 years to make; if Deus Ex had had more than one distinguished storyline then it would have taken much longer too.

[Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar]

I agree, but then the game becomes Bureaucracy Simulator, where your job is to reform a UN institution. I agree that it would have been cool to have that second option, to go with Carter's idea of reforming a corrupt institution from the inside. Probably wouldn't have made for the ideal game, and it would have added a lot of work in development. It's starting to sound similar to the mod UNATCO:Born. More choice is good, but harder to do well.

My vision of 'reforming' UNATCO consisted of whoever JC could convince/coerce doing the bureaucratic work, while JC does what he's good at.

@Chris
I'm not sold on Savage being a terrorist group, as far as I recall, they're only ever identified as such while Manderley was on the payroll of MJ12. I had kind of envisioned Savage and his team coming on board with UNATCO to work on developing a cure for the grey death, but I don't know the backstory well enough to state whether or not that would actually be consistant.

I had kind of envisioned JC emerging from the Secret MJ12 facility under UNATCO and somehow directly confronting Manderley, getting the opportunity to convince/coerce Manderley into walking away from MJ12 (aided by the fact that Manderly has probably deduced that Simons is about to take him out) and then immediately JC and whatever forces UNATCO have present at HQ moving immediately to remove the remaining MJ12 presence at HQ (JC has just moved through that facility wiping out a fair amount of their forces, after all), and then JC moving against other strongholds asap. Basically, Manderley, Daedalus and Alex between them manage to identify where they need to strike, and JC and UNATCO move.

The Simons-UNATCO relationship is more troublesome, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that that's a result of Manderley being bribed and turning a blind eye to Simons. The comment in the Manderley-Simons conversation you overhear that implies Simons (or MJ12 at least) chose Manderley is more troublesome. Although given the intro comment "I have a man in place", it's possible that what Simons means is that Manderley was chosen as the guy they were going to subvert, rather than an agent that they actively put in place. A possible justification for the bribes could be for Manderley to argue that he used (the bulk) of the money to help fund UNATCO. (As an aside, just before I started high school, the principle of said school was sacked for lying about the number of students he had to secure more funding, purely so that the school would have more money to spend on its students and not for any personal gain) I agree it's not perfect, but I think it's reasonable enough that it could slide into the story without creating any particularly glaring plotholes.

With regards to Paul, as I said I did imagine this being after you escape from the Secret MJ12 facility, so you would have had a chance to save him. But I don't necessarily see the resistance continuing as per usual without JC. In fact, a lot of what happens doesn't happen, and instead UNATCO is able to undermine MJ12's plans. Silhouette may or may not be saved - I don't consider it beyond the realm of possibility that even the killing machine JC would feel some affection for his brother, and be willing to break the rules to get him out - but to a large extent that's irrelevant. I would imagine that an organisation as powerful as UNATCO suddenly deciding to rear up against MJ12 would force a change in plan - the forces ear-marked for the French operation would then have to be diverted for the war with UNATCO. I always saw the resistance as faltering without JC, but UNATCO standing up and doing most of the work the resistance did. It's only toward the end, as Paul recovers and the UNATCO crack down toughens that they move against Area-51 - probably out of desperation. Possibly Alex was still in contact with Paul, and becoming concerned with the direction of UNATCO fed information to Paul, allowing him to strike against Area-51.

The whole JC-Paul Area-51 showdown is kind of sunk if you let Paul die, because the whole multiple endings thing (with 2 that diverge pretty massively from the actions JC has taken throughout the game, which is a bit odd given the reason I want all this is to make JC's actions consistant) was justified in my mind by the idea of Paul getting through to his brother and convincing him that things can be different. Okay, it doesn't make all that much sense for JC to blow up Area-51 when (after being presented evidence of UNATCO's corruption) he refused to go over to the other side with Paul in NYC, but maybe events since have convinced him that UNATCO is destined to always become corrupted. I've always thought that if you took the 'alternate' path, eventually you'd have a 'go kill Manderley' mission because the guy wouldn't be trustable, so he'd probably be trying to sell you out to somebody or other, and maybe that could be a watershed moment prior to the Area-51 run. But how that'd all work with someone other than Paul (and how they'd get to Area-51 in the first place) has left me stumped for the time being.

I will admit that it would be much less of a coherent story-line - more fractured strikes against MJ12 and then the other groups - but I think it could work if it was done well enough. Although to be really perfect it would involve UNATCO forces being deployed alongside JC, so the AI would probably need to improve a bit. And I guess it wasn't so much 'side-with-Carter' as 'take-Carter's-advice', you're right of course that Carter would ultimately despise JC's methods, so at some point he'd be removed - this could perhaps also fit into JC's changing views ultimately leading to the choice of destroying Area-51.

[chris the cynic]

@Chris
I'm not sold on Savage being a terrorist group, as far as I recall, they're only ever identified as such while Manderley was on the payroll of MJ12.

That is correct, however it should be noted that, given Manderley was always on the payroll of MJ12, everyone identified as a terrorist group was only identified as such when Manderley was on the payroll of MJ12. So you could likewise say, "I'm not sold on the NSF being a terrorist group, as far as I recall, they're only ever identified as such while Manderley was on the payroll of MJ12."

Or the same for Silhouette.

I had kind of envisioned Savage and his team coming on board with UNATCO to work on developing a cure for the grey death, but I don't know the backstory well enough to state whether or not that would actually be consistant.

Well X-51's big thing is that they robbed and sabotaged Area 51 when they left. Americans at UNATCO might see them as traitors given that they blew stuff up in a US military base.

Also, given that all UNATCO troops have been told to believe this:

Know Your Enemy -- X-51

Little is known about "X-51" aside from their involvement in all manner of illegal research, much of it proscribed by worldwide concordes over the last fifty years. Computer profiling shows a high likelihood that X-51 was responsible for the SoCal disaster that submerged much of southern California, though the exact nature of the experiment that led to the tragedy is still unknown. Little other information is available on the overall objective of X-51, if any exists.

X-51 is believed to be led by Gary Savage, a scientist previously employed by the United States government for a variety of black projects until he disappeared under mysterious circumstances several years ago. All agents are advised to be vigilant for any indications as to the whereabouts of Savage or other members of X-51, and report them immediately to their operator or immediate superior.

There might be some trouble adjusting. JC has the advantage of learning that the people who told him that are corrupt murderous bastards, if Manderley were to change sides, taking UNATCO with him, and try to negotiate a truce with X-51 he can't tell the truth without saying to the UNATCO rank and file, "I was a corrupt murderous bastard, but I really don't want to work at the Library of Congress so I've decided to stop being corrupt and share the truth with you." That isn't going to encourage them to stay with him. Saying to someone, "Everything I ever told you was a lie, but now I'm being honest," doesn't inspire trust or loyalty.

So he'd probably need to come up with a new lie to replace the old lie, but I'm at a loss for what new lie would work. X-51 has basically been blamed for everything that's going wrong in the US in the game. The So Cal disaster is the event that started the collapse that led to the original NSF, the invasion on the Mexican border, the US being broke, and basically everything other than the Gray Death.

So switch from telling someone, "Every problem you've ever had is because of these terrorists," to telling them, "They're not really terrorists, they're very nice people who can help us save the world," is going to be very difficult and even if you can somehow who convince people there would be the very big problem of the damage it does to your leadership. If you admit that you knowingly lied to people who trusted about what is, basically, the most important topic in their world that shows you are untrustworthy, why would people trust you with their lives? If you hide that, and claim that you too were deceived then that makes you look incompetent (and also makes it harder for you to offer proof while maintaining the lie) so why would people trust you with their lives?

I had kind of envisioned JC emerging from the Secret MJ12 facility under UNATCO and somehow directly confronting Manderley, getting the opportunity to convince/coerce Manderley into walking away from MJ12 (aided by the fact that Manderly has probably deduced that Simons is about to take him out) and then immediately JC and whatever forces UNATCO have present at HQ moving immediately to remove the remaining MJ12 presence at HQ (JC has just moved through that facility wiping out a fair amount of their forces, after all), and then JC moving against other strongholds asap. Basically, Manderley, Daedalus and Alex between them manage to identify where they need to strike, and JC and UNATCO move.

That is problematic because it happens at a time when Manderley has already allowed JC and Paul to be killed slowly and studied while they die. Anna is clearly aware of MJ12 to some degree (she has to walk through their base) and doesn't have a problem with them, Gunther thinks that Paul and JC, being traitors, should be given a shotgun to the back of the head, and all of the troops in UNATCO HQ are of a shoot first inclination when it comes to JC. Sides have clearly been chosen, and JC isn't on UNATCO's. Unless you've been exercising a fair amount of stealth since you sent the signal UNATCO has been shooting at JC for a while now.

Also, Manderley isn't in charge anymore. He is still in his office, yes, but based on an email to P Sherman and another sent to Manderley himself authority has already been handed off. Depending on how many people know about this, it might not be too much of a problem, but if word is out then Manderley would have to say, "Yeah I know I'm not in charge, but it's all a massive globe spanning conspiracy! My replacement is evil. Evil, I tell you." Or something like that. Maybe I'm just jaded, but when someone who lost his job for incompetence tells me that those who fired him are evil people trying to take over the world, I have my doubts.

Certainly the average UNATCO trooper is willing to take orders from Simons, he was the one who told them to kill JC at the NSF base and they obeyed, so if he and Manderley were to disagree, even when Manderley was still in charge, it isn't clear they'd obey Manderley.

The Simons-UNATCO relationship is more troublesome, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that that's a result of Manderley being bribed and turning a blind eye to Simons. The comment in the Manderley-Simons conversation you overhear that implies Simons (or MJ12 at least) chose Manderley is more troublesome. Although given the intro comment "I have a man in place", it's possible that what Simons means is that Manderley was chosen as the guy they were going to subvert, rather than an agent that they actively put in place.

I have a man in place sounds to me like "an agent they actively put in place." And, as you say, it is clear based on Simons' comment to Manderley that Manderley was chosen by them to be in charge.

When a couple of UNATCO troops find out about how much money Simons gives to UNATCO, one describes Simons as good to the bone and attributes all of their equipment to the charity of good people like Simons.

Another UNATCO trooper at the NSF headquarters assumed that the records of Simons bribing people (plural, but I don't know who else was taking bribes) were fabrications, said it was "All a bunch of nonsense," and dismissed it as propaganda. Which shows that even when faced with the truth some at UNATCO will simply dismiss it.

A possible justification for the bribes could be for Manderley to argue that he used (the bulk) of the money to help fund UNATCO. (As an aside, just before I started high school, the principle of said school was sacked for lying about the number of students he had to secure more funding, purely so that the school would have more money to spend on its students and not for any personal gain) I agree it's not perfect, but I think it's reasonable enough that it could slide into the story without creating any particularly glaring plotholes.

I think the problem is that Simons is liked and respected by UNATCO. The response to Simons murdering people isn't, "Manderley stopped me from filing a report about how Simons crossed the line," but instead:

We had to execute the prisoners.
They wouldn't talk.
Simons shot one of them himself. Now THAT'S somebody you don't want to piss off.

He's not turning a blind eye, he's taking partial credit (Simons actually shoots both of them himself.)

They're used to taking orders from him by the time JC is escaping. If one person they take orders from tells them that another person they take orders from is untrustworthy, which will they believe? It is made more difficult because Manderley can't tell them how he knows Simons is untrustworthy without proving that he himself is untrustworthy.

I keep coming back to that because that does seem like a major plot hole to me.

If he says that JC convinced him then he's saying that he's trusting someone who almost all of UNATCO believes is a terrorist. Worse than that, they know he's a terrorist because, at the time you're discussing he just sent out a warning signal to multiple terrorist groups. JC has given aid and comfort to the NSF and Silhouette, possibly others. Furthermore, JC doesn't actually have any proof to share. The proof for him was something he read in the NSF HQ which, in part, was proving Manderley could not be trusted. That is the same NSF building that UNATCO was going through destroying all the data in because it was, in their eyes, fabricated propaganda. There isn't any evidence JC could share, so there is nothing Manderley can point to as converting him. The best he could do is say, "JC told me that I've been taking bribes and I believe him." That's not a good argument on why you should follow him off the reservation.

If he doesn't say JC convinced him then he still has to have some explanation for why he is changing sides and why everyone else should come with him. Let's assume he does convince those in UNATCO that they should to believe in and oppose MJ12 (believe in should be easier since they're right down the hall), the first question he's going to have to answer is, "You've known about this for how long?" And the second question is, "Why didn't you do anything before?" with the specific variation of, "Why didn't you tell me?" You've given an answer to the question (it wasn't in his self interest before), but it isn't an answer you can use to rally people behind you. Saying, "I've known about this evil for quite some time, but until I thought it would kill me I was fine with misleading you in service to it," is not going to get you many followers.

That's where the hole lies. Yes, you can certainly come up with reasons from Manderley to switch sides and decide to oppose MJ12, but it is much harder to have a way for him to take UNATCO with him. He's violated their trust when what they trusted him with was their lives. He can't pretend he didn't know the truth before because he has nothing he can point to as teaching him the truth. So the only way to tell UNATCO enough of the truth to turn them away from MJ12 is to let them know that they can't trust him. If they can't trust him why would they follow him?

-
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--
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I'm going to try to summarize.

The UNATCO rank and file aren't going to trust JC because they believe he is a terrorist and the only evidence he has is his word. Manderley can't credibly argue that he was convinced by JC for the same reason. (Recall that he was searched and his stuff removed when he was captured, if JC had had proof it would have been discovered then, not in Manderley's office.) Even if he tried to claim, "Well I thought JC was an untrustworthy terrorist but then he pulled out X to convince me," the logical response from the rank and file would be, "Show me X," which Manderley can't do.

As such, the only way for the rank and file to be convinced is for Manderley to come up with another explanation besides JC for why he is suddenly saying UNATCO should stop taking orders from the people they've been taking orders from. The problem that any such explanation suffers is that, unless Simons dropped off absolute-proof-that-MJ12-must-be-stopped(even-if-it-means-working-with-someone-who-helped-the-NSF) around the same time JC escaped, that explanation is going to require Manderley admitting that he's been lying to them all (and possibly admitting he's been taking bribes) and spending their lives in the service of MJ12.

That would destroy, or at least severely damage, whatever credibility he has as a leader. The UNATCO rank and file wouldn't have a lot of reason to follow him. They would have just learned that they had fought and their friends had died not in the service of the greater good, not even for nothing, but for worse than nothing. They had been fighting against what they thought they had been fighting for, and Manderley was the reason for that.

I don't see that as inspiring them them to follow him more. I don't see that making them want to become outlaws for him. And they would have to become outlaws. Simons is a US government official, MJ12 has taken over France, the government of China is subservient to MJ12. Fighting MJ12 in these places would mean fighting against the law. Even within the context of UNATCO they'd be breaking the rules by following Manderley because Manderley has been relieved of command.

Then there is the added problem that while Manderley would be saying, "I lied before but I'm telling the truth now, give up the lives you have known and follow me to fight the good fight from the other side of the law," Simons (who UNATCO is used to obeying), whatever Senators MJ12 was blackmailing, probably the UN as a whole and possibly President Mead would be saying, "No. Everything you know is not a lie. You have not been fighting, killing and dying for nothing. You have been doing it for the greater good and in service to humanity. Please, continue that service. Don't go outside the law, uphold the law. You are all that stands between the innocent people of the world and chaos, we need you to keep doing your job. Please, stay and do the work you've invested so much in. Don't follow Manderley, follow your orders. Don't go rogue, stop rogue groups. You are not pawns of evil, you are good people who have done good things. We're begging you, please keep up the good work." (Probably more convincing than that though, they'd have trained propagandists.)

If Manderley does get people to follow him, I don't see UNATCO remaining intact. At best you'd have the fractured remains of UNATCO convinced that MJ12 needed to be opposed but unsure who to trust. I could certainly see some sticking with Manderley, but that isn't what you're talking about. You're talking about a largely intact UNATCO cutting its ties with, essentially, everything outside of itself and going to war with MJ12 under the command of the very person who tricked them into doing MJ12's bidding in the first place. I don't see a credible way for that to happen.

[Moonbo]

Slightly related, but I seem to recall an email on Carter's computer during the Escape UNATCO mission that indicated that he helped JC escape from the MJ12 facility, or something like that?

-Gelo

[chris the cynic]

Slightly related, but I seem to recall an email on Carter's computer during the Escape UNATCO mission that indicated that he helped JC escape from the MJ12 facility, or something like that?

-Gelo

There was indeed.

From: ???
To: SCarter//UNATCO.38239.09421
Subject: Thank You

Your assistance in helping us to compromise UNATCO security protocols was instrumental to your friend's escape; while we still do not know the identity of the person or persons calling themselves "Daedalus," they have given us ample reason to believe that he will be an asset to the cause of freedom.

It should go without saying that this message will erase itself before the security systems come back online -- any attempt to copy or archive it will fail.

Minister of True Lies
Tandis qu'ils dorment, nous gagnerons.

Minister of True Lies is a title associated with Silhouette.

[justanotherfan]

Plus, there's French in it. While they sleep, we win.

[Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar]

Okay, so in short, for it to work the conspiracy has to be massively weakened, UNATCO made more independent and free thinking and Manderley less of a dick.

Yeah, that's not a massive change. I guess I just like the idea so much that I overlook all the difficulties.

On the plus side, all this talking about Deus Ex made me want to play it again, so this thread has kind of served a purpose.

[fender2k1]

now after outlining all that above, you can imagine the story undertaking we've had to do in unatco born.