Cybernetic pig wrote:Well argued. Like I said, there are outliers. With the added texture definition along with DX's reuse of textures indeed the texture patterns become more evident, but this only applies to large, commonly used generic surfaces, especially when the textures were made more gritty in some cases.
As I mentioned, I can see how these have appeal to people who have played DX to the point where everything memorized and they want to experiment with kinds of novelty. If however, you're playing to re-experience the story it's fine when they're fine and jarring when they're not. The inconsistency is what creates the problems.
GMDX has addressed this in some specific places it really stood out. In the case of HDTP objects with higher definition, well frequent reuse of objects is something we accept in every game including modern hi-def ones like, say, Fallout: New Vegas, so we naturally ignore that every weapon model, decorative object and such is a clone of the last of its type. I think that's where the problem lies at its core.
Part of the reason Fallout has worked so well as a 3D game is that its post-apocalyptic psuedo-1950s aesthetic creates an expectation of things looking out of place and there being a mix of home made, salvaged and well maintained. If someone has a nice house with a crappy looking coffee pot - it immediately makes sense that they couldn't get a better coffee pot because Wasteland.
Deus Ex was supposed to be a sort of sci-fi future world where we regularly move between the places of the haves and the haves not.
I cannot excuse the other points you made directly beyond that the issues are few and far between.
The mileage varies, but for me the infuriation of running into things that make me stop and try to work out WTF is going on when I'm supposed to be feeling more immersed doesn't help it.
Visually speaking, Deus Ex was not an artistic masterpiece nor particularly easy on the eye like a Simpsons character.
Season One Simpsons weren't particularly easy on the eyes. They've streamlined, experimented and refined a lot over the years. However the principle remains constant.
The game also took a photo-realistic approach to level design quite often, which New Vision often complements well (Korean War Memorial and other plaques in Battery Park for instance). HDTP and New Vision can simply really make it look great in some areas. One aspect in which I appreciate no longer having to use my imagination is HDTP's weapon mod attachments.
Again it comes down to my fixation with the big picture. Not being able to read the plaques on memorials never bothered me because it made sense that the wear and tear would make the illegible and the priority was it was a site that enshrined history rather than the details on the real historical event.
I like the weapon attachments feature too, which is good because I'm apparently stuck with having to keep HDTP (or forfeit my saved game).
Edit: wincenworks, I'm impressed by your critical eye and understanding of the vanilla design (not just visually). Would you be willing to play the beta of GMDXv8.0 and "vivisect" it, so that way all noteworthy criticism I can address before release? I have always been very intent on doing this right with respect for the original design, so I think you could be a very valuable asset,
Sure. Just be aware my schedule is prone to random fluctuations, particularly since I'm moving in the near future.
even if you are overly critical at times.
Never do anything halfway.
FastGamerr wrote:Just remember to cover your ground and make sure you won't insult their Holy Game in any way, CyberP. Their one true unquestionable interpretation is backed up with FACTS™ after all.
Pfft, the holy game was made in 1988 and was descerated in 2001 (thanks Stormfront Studios). There was also a fan remake mod but I never played it because I didn't have the base game.
Cybernetic pig wrote:Well, I can defend this one actually:
wincenworks wrote:I don't like the new design of the standard issue pistol - if it was supposed to look like a Glock it would have looked like a Glock in the original.
It did!
http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Pistol_(DX)
"The pistol is similar in design to the family of Glock pistols. Moreover, its texture file is named "glock"."
Yes, the design of the new one is still not wholly faithful, but seriously, look at that old thing. How would you update it?
Even for mods that intend to be faithful, taking the occasional creative liberty is OK in my book as long as the end result fits the game world and is an agreeable improvement, which in the case of HDTP's pistol it quite obviously is.
I'm not sure if they mean similar to Glock or "similar to every automatic handgun made since 1911". That the texture file is named Glock just means they're aware of Glocks though personally I think they eventually went more with
Smith & Wesson 1006 (which is actually a 10mm pistol that was used by police).
I'd suggest looking at something like one of
Sig's chunkier models and then doing a bit of recolouring, stretching etc to make it look different enough that it could be a future gun.
Made in China wrote:Regarding Kim Wincen's claims about atmosphere, well, he's right. Partially. Whenever Trasher had the time and could build everything from the ground up, the result was pretty good - Hell's Kitchen, from being 2 blocks and a park, became a real neighborhood, and I think it was pretty memorable. I admit I got lost there in the beginning, but now I can pretty much navigate flawlessly - and if that doesn't mean immersion, I don't know what is.
1979 called. They want their standards back.
Also, the reuse of graphics assets is prevalent in any game, but good for you for noticing.
Some people propose that since it is inevitable that people should incorporate it in planning.
Anyway, when Trasher had to reuse maps, it blended together with vanilla Deus Ex and it made the impression of just clutter. Again, I think that that's how modern video games are made - you can't have just an empty space, something has to take place in it (unless you're a Bethesda game, then you're cool).
Pretty sure MGSV:TPP wasn't a Bethesda game. Or Far Cry 3. Or Dirty Bomb. Or The Stanley Parable. Or Dragon Age: Inquisition.
The idea that you can't have empty space is the same line of thinking as "more pixels is better". It's one based off the idea that adding anything is automatically an improvement.
This isn't the case. Things need to have a purpose and contrast with other things.
ggrotz wrote:Then I could say that he needed to educate himself (as do most of the reviewers) on what is what in these packages. Effectively in all three of his videos, he devoted maybe 40% of the time towards Revision, yet in his mind was reviewing "Revision". He had the right idea to begin with in stripping all (or as much) of the third-party software as possible if he was going to review "Revision" and not anything else.
That was less planning and more just how it worked once I got it to actually play. As for what is "Revision" - I'm finding it difficult to tell since Caustic Creative seem to insist that NewVision and HDTP are essential parts of Revision (which is even more complicated when you consider HDTP was considerate enough to let you select which HD skins you wanted active).
According to the site:
"Revision brings in Project HDTP and New Vision for high-detail models and textures. Project HDTP’s character models are included, but disabled by default; they offer a stylized look that may not be to everyone’s taste. Meanwhile, New Vision’s high-resolution textures are complimented by some of our own. "
Now the bits that seem to be created by Caustic Creative seem to be in the style of NewVision/HDTP, so they do stand out if you don't have them on there. Then there issue of how "faithful" the recreations are.
Basically it's a terrible mess.