A genuine Deus Ex: Human Revolution Testimony..

[Undisputed]

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=114432

Confirmed by a Eidos Moderator at the boards, he got a behind the scenes play at the game and said in a very adjective paragraph that the game was not only a true homage and sequel to the original, it was better

So lets get ready for a great game

[Amakir]

I don´t believe it.

[Undisputed]

There was screen shots of him being in the studio with the team as well as a sneak peek inside with pictures of the game, but they were deleted for obvious reasons. Just like the gameplay leak video that was 20 minutes long..

I didn't get to see the pictures in time though..

[kdawg88]

One opinion doesn't really mean anything, but I guess it's nice to have hope.

[Mr_Cyberpunk]

Yes lets just trust the opinions of an Eidos Moderator- clearly he cannot be biased. -sarcasm.

I mean hell they basically gave him free stuff- that alone compromises his integrity as an "objective" party. This is an "official" opinion make no mistakes.

You want a bet he had to sign an NDA

[justanotherfan]

He mentions the Non-Disclosure-Agreement he signed.

I can give no details on it thanks to the all-powerful Non-Disclosure Agreement, but I can provide some personal reactions.

Actually no, he can't unless encouraged to. And as CP said, instead of journalism, this is being hosted by Eidos themselves (initiated, controlled, edited, and provided by them).

I was going to post an opinion on this earlier, but it's pretty clear it means little or nothing. On one hand he describes things I'm really not looking forward to, and on the other someone enjoyed playing the game. Duly noted.

Thanks for posting it Undisputed. It counts as an event if not news. Some photos are now loading for me, and I'm wondering what it's like to work in an Ikea office...and I have the same mouse I think. There's now an interview added, which is fairly uninteresting (eg. we'll all stumble but be satisfied) and blase about styling choices.

[Undisputed]

Ah your all right, I fell for the bait and realized that more after playing DX:IW for the first time recently and Human Revolution sounds awfully alot like it, just more butchered. (Somehow lol as if the transition from the first to the sequel wasn't enough)

I'm sure theres some truth in there though, but the bad, grey area of Deus Ex that IW created is now un-avoidable... [-(

[chris the cynic]

I really think it depends entirely on what you're interested in.

I'm very big on story and setting. I can't turn off the part of me that thinks about those things in depth, and even if I could it wouldn't help because that's a big part of what makes me want to play games like Deus Ex in the first place. As a result, I'm almost certainly not going to like Human Revolution. The reason being, the world they've created doesn't fit Deus Ex's story or setting. To their credit, the creators of HR know this and have given some reasons for why they did that. (I don't find those reasons compelling, but that's for another time.)

That's me. Fuck over story and setting and for me that's pretty much a deal breaker. For other people, not so much. What I've just said won't bother them in the least. Quite a few probably won't even notice it. Others will have never played Deus Ex and thus couldn't notice it.

Some people might find certain aspects of a gameplay to be deal breakers (auto heal has come up, as has combining augs and skills.) For others those things won't be a problems. For some they will be positives. The ability to go through the game killing only one person (or none if you allow for exploits) might have been someone's big thing from Deus Ex, in that case they'll find themselves at least somewhat let down. (HR has multiple bosses, no word on how many, of which multiple, again no word on how many, will have to be killed.)

So sure, there's a lot of ways we already know the game will disappoint various people. But each of them requires the person to consider one or more of those things a deal breaker, and for a lot of people none of them will be.

What if someone's big thing is being able to tackle every mission in 5,000 different ways? Well it's impossible to tell how well they did on that front without actually playing the game, but at the very least I've not seen anything indicating they fucked that up. It certainly seems to be one of the few things from Deus Ex they claim they're trying to keep. So assume they do it spectacularly. Then there will be a fuckton of people who think Human Revolution is everything they've ever wanted in a Deus Ex game. And I'll certainly understand where they're coming from.

If I want to let someone know what Deus Ex is I don't go on about the rich setting you learn about in books, emails, notes, newspapers and overheard conversations. I don't do that, even though that is what I love about it. I point them to Kieron Gilllen's review and tell them to start reading at the first "You're standing on a rooftop." Because in many ways thats what makes Deus Ex Deus Ex. You could probably take my beloved setting and stick it into linear game like AVP2, and I'd probably love that game, but it wouldn't be Deus Ex*. It wouldn't even be Deus Ex like. On the other hand if you were to completely change the setting** but leave the game mechanics the same*** I'd still be inclined to describe that as Deus Ex, or at least pretty damned Deus Ex like.

So anyway, if they get that one thing right, then for a lot of people I'm guessing the game will be a completely acceptable sequel. Even if they don't get that right I'm sure there are other things that are the most important part to other people, and if they hit those things right it will be a success in those people's eyes.

I think it all depends on what you want from a Deus Ex game.

-

* And there's a pretty big chance that, even though setting is what really interests me, I wouldn't like it nearly as much as I did Deus Ex. This probably isn't the place, but I think that Deus Ex's freedom of gameplay probably did a lot to enhance the story for reasons that, as I said, this probably isn't the place to get into.

** Rewrite the text, record new and lines for all the conversations, replace a lot of the models, reskin the characters, retexture the levels.

*** Sure, now you're a newly knighted warrior fighting for the Knights of Order against ... whatever, and Alex is the mage who helps you via a psychic link, Jock is the black dragon rider who gets you from place to place, Gunther is part animal (werewolf perhaps) instead of part machine ... but you've still got skills and augs (er... spells, many of them um ... autometabletic) and tools and weapons and whatnot and can approach your objective of stopping the terrorists (furorists?) on Liberty Island (Insula Libertatis) in all the same ways.

[Undisputed]

If you want my honest input I believe you will have the freedom to approach and beat the game how you want, but you will be faced with situations that require you to kill and assassinate targets/groups of enemies (similar to the Metal Gear Solid series = perfect comparison)

The real problem the developers (even hardcore fans) will never understand about Deus Ex is how well it "flowed" and how fluently the game progressed the entire way through without detouring the player. Most games will act as a red light and alert to you when to make a choice or when it introduces a "curve ball" or new development in the storyline. Deus Ex didn't do that, (even after you factor the fact theres more storyline development and choices than any other game made that I have played to date) it pulled you into a authentic, realistic world where you would half to make choices just how you would in real life making it very interesting and appealing to all kinds of people with different personalities.

Combining storyline and gameplay together fluently is the key to making a immersive game like Deus Ex, but its not a easy thing to do and you really half to plan out how you want to make it. I'm sure the storyline and gameplay will be fine with HR although the storyline won't offer anything new from its predecessors it seems like (the overall plot being about the controversy following human augmentation, big deal we seen that alot in 1&2) nothing new or groundbreaking will be made. Of course realism is key too while creating some heroic, theatrical events which is something Deus Ex did perfectly. We will wait and see what HR has to offer though, for all we know it might be true to the philosophy, creation, and mechanics of DX.

[justanotherfan]

I didn't want to mention where the review pointed out issues I have, but that was the most complete and reasonable post I've seen on DXHR, Chris. I'm not as detailed about congruity in story, setting, or even art style, but the bosses thing violates how I played DX (many ways to do things, many "personalities" to play, the ability to play as "myself"). I want to see many of the things they are creating, but I don't want to play the game they're designing. Other people will be opposite (the mainstream?), and others still will want something completely different. That's fine, not what I want. I must start quoting that linked review in other threads...
--

No worries Undisputed, you posted an event that some of us wanted to notice. HR feels like it isn't similar to IW; I believe IW tried to use "future" design principles that didn't pan out, but HR appears to be using "modern" principles in an establishment way (you need levels, bosses, fatalities, flashiness, badassiness, etc). I think they do converge in targeting the mainstream gamer, in a market already flooded with mainstream clone games with no real Deus Ex clones.

I am looking forward to hearing the story of HR; it'll intentionally shatter DX's continuity, but I'm interested. A new take on Deus Ex philosophies would be so much fun. I love being immersed in a game, but that is so fragile for me when annoyances or game incongruities occur with what I want to do...they've announced HR requires annoying things I don't want to do. I don't know if I'll play it. I think IW's shader requirement delayed me a couple years (eg. my first play had JohnP's texture pack). I'm more interested in discussing DX than playing its ******* children.

[Jaedar]

It's basically a reboot, which they've admitted to.

Personally I like DX's story and atmosphere and setting and all that jazz, but I am perfectly capable of enjoying the game without those things. I mainly like it for the gameplay, and I doubt that gameplay is wholly compatible with modern design principles for a AAA game. It's just like they said in one of the first interviews ever which I will paraphrase to: "The original game didn't have any memorable moments". Naturally, they wouldn't point this out if they were not going to try and fix it, but forcing memorable moments on to the player is contradictory to DX's style of doing things however you like.

It's why we get forced boss battles and cutscenes(the very purpose of which is to remove control from the player to do something kewl). It's why we get regenerating health instead of medkits because when you play games you're apparently supposed to feel like an unstoppable ubermensch who dosnt afraid of anything.

But maybe it will work out and still be a decent game, if not, we'll always have the original (and TNM) to go back to.

[Undisputed]

No worries Undisputed, you posted an event that some of us wanted to notice. HR feels like it isn't similar to IW; I believe IW tried to use "future" design principles that didn't pan out, but HR appears to be using "modern" principles in an establishment way (you need levels, bosses, fatalities, flashiness, badassiness, etc). I think they do converge in targeting the mainstream gamer, in a market already flooded with mainstream clone games with no real Deus Ex clones.

Yeah no doubt, they want to appeal to the largest market in gaming right now which is hardcore FPS. I think IW did alot of things right however, the fururistic design was great and convincing, but it was flawed in so many ways. Speaking of which NG Resonance (holographic person) was a great addition and the music had a futuristic rave/rock sound while maintaining to be on topic to the storyline itself. I hope they have a feature like that in HR...

It's just like they said in one of the first interviews ever which I will paraphrase to: "The original game didn't have any memorable moments". Naturally, they wouldn't point this out if they were not going to try and fix it, but forcing memorable moments on to the player is contradictory to DX's style of doing things however you like.

Exactly, what happened to the subtle approach in DX where nothing was forced? Now I'm really convinced their going for a MGS4 approach..

[chris the cynic]

It's just like they said in one of the first interviews ever which I will paraphrase to: "The original game didn't have any memorable moments". Naturally, they wouldn't point this out if they were not going to try and fix it, but forcing memorable moments on to the player is contradictory to DX's style of doing things however you like.

I wonder about things like this. Consider the conversation you (may or may not) overhear between Bob Page and Maggie Chow in the MJ12 base under Versalife. It could have been done so that approaching that area would trigger a cutscene, you switch to a third person shot of JC pressed up against the wall to minimize his chances of being scene, the camera floats sideways to the window. You see the conversation from the perfect angle with nothing whatsoever distracting you from this brilliant bit of double foreshadowing*. Then the camera floats back to the listening JC, and the game returns to first person and player control.

Instead we had a conversation you might never actually hear.

Or you might start to hear it, be uninterested, and move on.

Or you listen to it, intently, perhaps just like the cut scene would have shown, but all of a sudden a bullet flies by your head and into the wall, and boom, you're into combat, so much for the conversation. You pull out your weapon and leave eavesdropping behind.

Or you're in the middle of combat already, and you'd like to listen, but you're too busy (kicking ass, running for dear life, saving the world, whatever.)

Or maybe you're already dealt with everyone, and you stand there among the corpses of your enemies marveling at how self absorbed these people are to talk about the strength of their security when if they would simply look around they'd see that their security was gone.

Or maybe you haven't done anything to set anyone off yet and you stand there, openly listening as if you have every right to be there, a smirk coming to your face when Page says, "Never mind that punk from UNATCO," not realizing that you're standing right there, listening to every word he says, in the middle of his base without his knowledge, his security intact but useless because you've tricked them all. A WiB walks by behind you, never realizing the irony.

Or maybe ...

It seems to me that its the "Or maybes" are what made Deus Ex what it was, and also that they can lead to some pretty memorable moments.

-

Admittedly this is a really poor example. It sort of came to mind as a result of thinking about what might be different if not for principles of not having sandwich gameplay (a term which google tells me has almost entirely fallen into disuse) and having things be emergent rather than on rails. If not for that then that tiny largely insignificant conversation is crying out for a gratuitous cut scene. It may be the first time you learn Page is operating out of Area 51, it is definitely the first time you hear about Icarus, and it might even be the first time you learn that UCs are real things. So I counted wrong, it's triple foreshadowing. It's setting up your next mission, the arrival of Icarus and thus the Vandenberg mission down the pipeline, and the very last level. A developer less concerned about player freedom might want to make sure you don't miss that.

-

*Brilliant is overselling the conversation. It is, in fact, more accurate to call it simply a bit of double foreshadowing. The thing is, I think that setting out to create "memorable moments" would tend to lead in one of two directions. One is despair and the belief that everything you create is crap. The other is an over inflated sense of your own accomplishments. (It is perhaps worth noting that for a lot of artists the memorable stuff usually comes when they aren't specifically trying to create memorable stuff because they're too busy doing the actual work of creating stuff.)

[justanotherfan]

I liked NG Resonance, very Britney Spears meets Emergency Medical Hologram Mark I...I still listen to the kidneythieves, with their slightly-glitchy industrial electronic rock.

I think that Page & Chow convo is a great example, partly because it isn't the most major one possible. That'd be one of the details in one level, a memorable moment, but easily skipped depending on play style.

I'll admit that I honestly don't understand the "memorable moments" thing at all. I guess DX didn't have story climaxes in each vast level, but if that translates to "events you'd remember" I remember a lot of charged moments. Gunther at the subway, Anna looking at JC in the cell, humour disabling the killswitch, Page branding JC a traitor, Paul in the 'ton, the often-quoted Women's Washroom, the poor children outside Castle Clinton and in the Mole hideout, uh there's an alien shooting green goo rays...not to list everything, but DX did not lack memorable moments. I'm getting the feeling "memorable moments" is code for "eye-bedazzlering cinematic cutscenes" for me to be uninteractively bored during.

[Undisputed]

I'll admit that I honestly don't understand the "memorable moments" thing at all. I guess DX didn't have story climaxes in each vast level, but if that translates to "events you'd remember" I remember a lot of charged moments. Gunther at the subway, Anna looking at JC in the cell, humour disabling the killswitch, Page branding JC a traitor, Paul in the 'ton, the often-quoted Women's Washroom, the poor children outside Castle Clinton and in the Mole hideout, uh there's an alien shooting green goo rays...not to list everything, but DX did not lack memorable moments. I'm getting the feeling "memorable moments" is code for "eye-bedazzlering cinematic cutscenes" for me to be uninteractively bored during.

I think its a game where you need to make memorable moments instead of looking for them through what the developer already pre-designed into cutscenes or dialogue. That may sound a bit hypocritical I know, but you get the point. The last setence is what I'm getting to, and I agree completely. I think they will force memorable moments and keep us out of making choices based on how we want the memorable moments to play out.

And yes, NG Resonance will be remembered Kidneythieves were the perfect band to use for DX and I look forward to listening to their music in the future, and thats not just because of my love for DX its because I admire thier style, sound, and song concepts/material.

Good day my friend.