The Human revolution thread, now with 233213% more spoilers

[bobby 55]

Has anyone played DLC and if so what did you think of it? There's definitely going to be another game or series of DLCs and I bet they're going to revolve around this Janus person/computer. Do you think eventually they'll make a game where Paul meets old (but tough like tong si hung) Adam through Tracer, and is recruited to the NSF?

The DLC is entertaining imo. It's got a decent boss fight too.

[gamer0004]

Nooow, there's my ad hominem! But hey, at least this time it's a transparent snipe. I might just as well ask if you get paid out of Ion Storm Austin's estate on some sort of weird retainer still living out it's un-life, one that was somehow inserted as a posion pill paragraph in the Deus Ex license to ensure noone but ISA could continue to make Deus Ex games without someone outthere on message boards to try and bring everybody down about such titles... that would be equally ridiculous.

Anyway, I'm not the only one who will go out of his way to speak in favor of something he enjoys. He, of course, did get paid to do it, although he got independtly paid, and thus was not biased...though I think he misobserves a number of things and doesn't get it. I'm lead to believe this is totally normal behaviour when you actually believe the things you write, and you feel like your perspective might shed light on things others may have missed.

Back on topic, for future reference, you can merely stick to typing bias in all caps or calling me a fanboy..or, you know, maybe a crybaby. That's a good name to call someone. Or a whiner. It's a lot shorter than asking rhetorical questions, and it gets you just about as far.

This was the first ad-hominem. I'm getting annoyed by your love for HR. Nothing to see here. Carry on.

[Jonas]

I'm getting annoyed by your love for HR. Nothing to see here. Carry on.

I could write a book about the things that annoy me about you gamer0004, but at least I won't make the mistake of thinking anybody gives a shit.

[AEmer]

I'm getting annoyed by your love for HR. Nothing to see here.

Why?

What an unreasonable thing.

[gamer0004]

That's what I'm saying. I apologize.

[VectorM]

Some of you guys really need to get laid.

[gamer0004]

Wait, let me quote myself because I'm such a self-important dick:

I hereby grant you the explicit permission to go fuck yourself.

[AEmer]

Some of you guys really need to get laid.

Why, are you offering?

[Mariner]

Has anyone played DLC and if so what did you think of it? There's definitely going to be another game or series of DLCs and I bet they're going to revolve around this Janus person/computer. Do you think eventually they'll make a game where Paul meets old (but tough like tong si hung) Adam through Tracer, and is recruited to the NSF?

As much as I'd love to play as Adam again, especially in a time closer to the first game, it would completely obliterate the strongest and IMO more overlooked aspect of HR's story; it's a tragedy. Adam's dead at the end not because he can't exist in Deus Ex (I sincerely doubt Simons was being literal when he said that Navarre and Hermann were the last mechs), but because Adam's own story is deliberately linked to the myth of Daedalus and Icarus, in which Icarus crashes into the sea after his wings melted from the sun.

To go on a tangent about the bossfights and their place in the story, I find them out of place not just because of their dated mechanics, but because the idea of having a "boss" in this game works against the thrust of the game's narrative. HR portrays the crystallization of the Illuminati's power through Adam's eyes, and while Adam's tech tree is seemingly OP compared to Deus Ex, the player and Adam slowly realize that while he may have begun to transcend his human limitations and is on the road to transhumanism, nothing he can accomplish in the world can stop the events that Darrow, Page and Everett put into motion. Despite being a "greater" being that those he opposes, Adam is powerless to change the course of events in a traditional way.

To summarize: "You can't fight ideas with bullets."

In this light, the Ending-Tron-3000 makes much more sense, as Adam's real struggle is what to make of his experiences, not only to himself, but to the rest of the world. (I don't believe for a second that PICUS broadcasting any of the three stories would really shift public option beyond what the Illuminati could ever control, with or without Eliza's consent. The fact that the world's largest media source IS a centralized tool of Illuminati propaganda does, however, lend more credence to Tracer's ending, which otherwise seems incredibly ham-handed and drastic otherwise.) In both game, it's repeated and implied over and over that the body can only evolve so far without the mind. Although not spelled out in so many words, it's evident that even at the end of his life, Adam's mind makes the first steps in this direction with each of the four ending branches.

That culmination of themes and presentation seals the deal on why I end up loving Human Revolution, even with it's laundry list of flaws (One that's not really all that much longer than Deus Ex, to be entirely fair. ;p).

It's not structurally the same animal as Deus Ex in terms of multiple story paths, but to not call this a Deus Ex game only illustrates a shallow understanding of what made the original great. I rarely disagree with Yahtzee's reviews, and in a way I'm not departing too much from his take, but to say that HR's story isn't as deep isn't true. There's worlds of depth in the story, but it's a more personal, more narrowly focused story. Different, not dumber.

Speaking of "dumber", The Missing Link, while technically brilliant, actually comes close to undermining the story of HR because it misunderstood that entire scene of Adam turning himself into a piece of cargo to follow a lead. It's true that it's overtly a nod and commentary on human trafficking in our time and what it could mean in the future, but it takes on a new meaning when Adam literally turns himself off in order to do it. That's a scary prospect, given that he could easily never wake up, or wake up months or even years after he climbs in. This isn't something that a normal human can experience, and it's a demonstration of the risks augs face.

Why couldn't they have just added that content as an extra mission? It's not like fans aren't already replaying it several times.

[nerdenstein]

As much as I'd love to play as Adam again, especially in a time closer to the first game, it would completely obliterate the strongest and IMO more overlooked aspect of HR's story; it's a tragedy. Adam's dead at the end not because he can't exist in Deus Ex (I sincerely doubt Simons was being literal when he said that Navarre and Hermann were the last mechs), but because Adam's own story is deliberately linked to the myth of Daedalus and Icarus, in which Icarus crashes into the sea after his wings melted from the sun.

As much as I like your statement and as much as I agree, with his link to the myth, I also don't see how Adam dies in all 4 endings. The Icarus myth link is as much a metaphor for the society that exists in HR as much as Adam is the personification of that metaphor.
As described in Deus Ex: The Icarus Effect (Not word for word, a friend of mine has borrowed the book so I can't quote it) but it states that what is known as the Icarus Effect is that Humanity is reaching far too high, essentially evolving far too quickly. They will eventually reach too high and crash and burn. I think Adam is both the blessing and the curse in this sense; he is the next step in this man made evolution as he doesn't reject augs, but at the same time, he is also the one to do something about it (for better or for worst, as we don't fully know what happens after his monologue at the end (And I can't remember the specifics of each ending so I'll need to go and listen to those again)).

As for the Bosses, ignoring the gameplay side of it, they didn't work very well in the narrative because they were never fully explored as characters in the game. In this spin off book I keep ranting off about, their little group (known as The Tyrants) are some of the main characters. That's perhaps why I saw them in a different light when it came to playing the game, in terms of characters.

Before The Missing Link was released, I saw a few images and links that has links back to the book so I'm looking forward to playing it through. Though, it's disappointing that HR didn't explore relevant parts from The Icarus Effect (such as the idea behind what is the Icarus Effect and The Tyrants backstory) as they left parts of the narrative empty.

[VectorM]

Some of you guys really need to get laid.

Why, are you offering?

If it floats your boat, sure.

[gamer0004]

Please continue using PMs, gentlemen.

[AEmer]

@ Nerdenstein and Mariner

I don't know that Adams place in the story is done, but maybe. Honestly, switching to another protagonist is a good for most stories, and I think exploring some of the characters of HR through the eyes of another character would be a good. I think I would prefer it if you played as an agent of the illuminati in the next piece of DLC.

I would obviously prefer save game transfers akin to Mass Effect, but I don't think Eidos Montreal are willing to dig their own grave like that - they already couldn't fully implement everything to their satisfaction for the first game, having a spaghettiweb of a story won't make it easier for them to improve for the next one.

But, game companies like building up repeat characters, almost like mascots. It's an awful tradition because it can spoil narratives and make them nonsensible, but they still do it.

I also think they'll do the reasonable thing: They'll pick one of the endings and make it canon, so whether Adam lives or dies will have a determinate answer. That, or they'll cheat and do something that invalidates whatever choice Adam made after the fact, perhaps even right after.

@ Everybody, re VectorM

[nerdenstein]

I also think they'll do the reasonable thing: They'll pick one of the endings and make it canon, so whether Adam lives or dies will have a determinate answer. That, or they'll cheat and do something that invalidates whatever choice Adam made after the fact, perhaps even right after.

Or, they'll do what ISA did with Deus Ex 1 and make all the endings Canon in their own right; which I would prefer. I don't mean that all 3 news reports (Or whatever they were, I can't remember the specifics) will be sent out and that doesn't mean Panchea will be destroyed.
What I mean is that the overall outcome of all the endings come into play in same way or another.

That said, that would make the final choice even less dramatic.

I really need to go and finish my current HR play through, as I can't fully remember what the different outcomes were... One was hinting at Aug regulation or something similar. Another was too do with exposing the Illuminati.

[AEmer]

I also think they'll do the reasonable thing: They'll pick one of the endings and make it canon, so whether Adam lives or dies will have a determinate answer. That, or they'll cheat and do something that invalidates whatever choice Adam made after the fact, perhaps even right after.

Or, they'll do what ISA did with Deus Ex 1 and make all the endings Canon in their own right; which I would prefer. I don't mean that all 3 news reports (Or whatever they were, I can't remember the specifics) will be sent out and that doesn't mean Panchea will be destroyed.
What I mean is that the overall outcome of all the endings come into play in same way or another.

That said, that would make the final choice even less dramatic.

I really need to go and finish my current HR play through, as I can't fully remember what the different outcomes were... One was hinting at Aug regulation or something similar. Another was too do with exposing the Illuminati.

I think the decision not to go with a clear ending after Deus Ex was the single worst decision ISA made when developing invisible war.

If they'd chosen a single ending, they could've really built something around that. At the time it would've been criticized enormously, but I think it would've resulted in a better product, because they wouldn't have to support their weird non-choice throughout the product, and they would've had freedom to really complement the original and what went on in it much better.