What are you playing?

[Cybernetic pig]

it fails at everything it tries to do, and on that basis it's a crap game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyE4CLM0QIA

You're exaggerating. But even so I dont see how it fails much at all, except bugs, lack of overall polish, and just things that you generally dont agree with because you have distorted tastes.

[DaveW]

In this case 'distorted' would mean 'different than yours'.

The stealth elements don't work. The first person shooter elements are generally acceptable except both stealth and gunplay are ruined by piss-poor AI and abysmal, unclear level design. You are generally thrown into a maze of a level with no indication of what you're supposed to be doing.

The idea of using visual clues for health and ammo doesn't work because that information is available in the inventory screen. And locational damage is a nice feature, but carrying medkits (of which there are plenty) and using quickheal renders it irrelevant. All the irritating graphical flourishes don't have the intended effect because they are massively over-used. The sanity feature generally starts at random or in scripted sequences like boss fights, which is the most retarded place to start screwing with the player's view.

Then, yes - you have the game-stopping bugs and graphical glitches that weren't sorted out before release. Also the puzzles are either badly designed or are about on par with Half Life - "turn this lever" stuff.

So there you go. That's why it fails at everything it tried to do. It's not a good game because any way you look at it, it fails. First person shooter? Nope. Story-driven adventure game? Nope - the story is great but the storytelling and characters are awful. When I started playing it, I wondered why I'd never heard of it before and now I can see why.

[Cybernetic pig]

The idea of using visual clues for health and ammo doesn't work because that information is available in the inventory screen.

You are completely missing the point here. In real life, you have no hud, but if you are carrying bullets in your back pack (inventory) Then you have that information there. It works.

There are no visual cues for ammo anyway?

As for health it also works fine. Better than your solution anyway...Regen Health.
Other than detracting from immersion/realism slightly I see no problem with info about health being available in the inventory. And if there were no Visual/audio cues for health then that would be....
Even doom had audio & visual cues for taking damage.

And locational damage is a nice feature, but carrying medkits (of which there are plenty) and using quickheal renders it irrelevant..

To a certain extent this is true, but you still get broken limbs ect, and if you are low on healing items you can patch up vital parts via the interface but leave say a gash open, saving a bandage, and it will heal over time. Quickheal just takes some of the player involvement out of it and is best used in the heat of battle if in a safe enough spot.

Tell me, which difficulty were you playing on? Perhaps it affects AI accuracy? I know it effects how much health kits there are.

The sanity feature generally starts at random or in scripted sequences like boss fights, which is the most retarded place to start screwing with the player's view.

Some triggers that add to your sanity are set events, but the player can avoid the maority of them. Vertigo? dont look over the edge, if you have to do some activity near an edge just only look down every now and then to keep your footing. Trauma? dont stare at disturbing things for too long (this includes bosses, only 1 of which you have to take on head on (Marshe, who is human/just like the other standard enemies, so you dont experience blurring from looking at him too long) so its perfectly acceptable), and dont take too much damage in combat.

The sanity system is a rare additional challenge in a FPS, its just not for you, doesn't mean its badly designed. Yes I know this makes me a hypocrite on the random gen guns discussion, but not the other half of the argument about quests, which are badly designed.

So there you go. That's why it fails at everything it tried to do. It's not a good game because any way you look at it, it fails. First person shooter? Nope. Story-driven adventure game? Nope - the story is great but the storytelling and characters are awful. When I started playing it, I wondered why I'd never heard of it before and now I can see why.

[-(

And characters are awful? "STOP your snooping around outsider". And what about Hoover? And Jack himself? The Deep Ones are awesome too.

[YeomanTheCastle]

Out of curiosity, are you a fan of Jurassic Park: Trespasser, Cybernetic Pig?

[Cybernetic pig]

Out of curiosity, are you a fan of Jurassic Park: Trespasser, Cybernetic Pig?

Had to look that up. Looks pretty cool.

I'll be honest... Im more of a console gamer. I have played a ton of console games but still alot of PC games too. In recent years I have been way more into discovering old PC classics because newer games mostly suck....in my opinion.

Just like PC, old console games did not all excessively hold your hand, and RPGs and FPS's did not all have simplistic gameplay. Allthough most FPS's back then were great ports from the PC.
I did have a PC gaming phase when I was about 10 yrs old though, playing Half-Life and Gearbox's fantastic expansion pack Opposing Force, Duke3D, a little of Unreal Tournament, I was obssessed with Age of Empires. And I even remember some random crappy game Deer Avenger, it was crap but amusing for a 10 y/o.

Looking Glass's games just destroy everything I have played though, console and PC.

So if you are interested in finding some great console exclusives because, like me, you find the current market stale, then ask me. All you need is an emulator.

And on that note can you recommend me some must-have pre-2005 PC classics? Anything that GOG.com is missing? FPS or RPG preffered.
Oh and feel free to call me a console tard. I'll completely understand.

[DaveW]

To a certain extent this is true, but you still get broken limbs ect, and if you are low on healing items you can patch up vital parts via the interface but leave say a gash open, saving a bandage, and it will heal over time. Quickheal just takes some of the player involvement out of it and is best used in the heat of battle if in a safe enough spot.

Tell me, which difficulty were you playing on? Perhaps it affects AI accuracy? I know it effects how much health kits there are.

But you're never low on healing items - that's the point. Also, it's not just AI accuracy, it's everything about them. They're just dumb.

As for difficulty I was playing on Private Detective, which is the highest I could play without (I'm assuming) beating the game to unlock more. Which, for the record, I also think is stupid. Out of the 4 options it's the 2nd, so it's on the bottom end of a 'medium' difficulty - but it's not challenging at all. I got to the point where I couldn't carry any more ammo and medkits - I had them to spare.

Some triggers that add to your sanity are set events, but the player can avoid the maority of them. Vertigo? dont look over the edge, if you have to do some activity near an edge just only look down every now and then to keep your footing. Trauma? dont stare at disturbing things for too long (this includes bosses, only 1 of which you have to take on head on (Marshe, who is human/just like the other standard enemies, so you dont experience blurring from looking at him too long) so its perfectly acceptable), and dont take too much damage in combat.

The sanity system is a rare additional challenge in a FPS, its just not for you, doesn't mean its badly designed. Yes I know this makes me a hypocrite on the random gen guns discussion, but not the other half of the argument about quests, which are badly designed.

Well for a start - most of this is completely incorrect and you clearly don't understand how the game works.

Vertigo is triggered when you're looking anywhere but horizontally/up - which means that you generally trigger it in the awkward beam-walking and jumping puzzles. Basically, they found a way to make jumping puzzles even more irritating. Triggered sanity events are area based - it's mentioned frequently in walkthroughs:
"The deity incurs massive sanity loss -- since sanity is done in an area effect manner, race past the tops of the stairs and keep far from the boss"
"What you want to do is up to you, but wasting him is probably better. You lose less sanity by doing it from as far away as possible -- sanity loss has a range."

Though, granted, that writer also makes frequent references to how shit the stealth system is.
"The ladder and ducking system (not to mention the stealth system) in this game sucks ass compared to Thief 2 Metal Age, and any game veteran will know it."

Plus there are also areas where you are locked in an area and lose sanity quickly. In general my issue is with the areas that force sanity loss like the boss fights, and the sheer strengh of the stupid blurry effects. I've never had a problem with sanity looking at 'disturbing things' - the system doesn't work very well in that respect.

(As an aside, I like how you see it ok to call quests you don't like 'badly designed', but you're absolutely steadfast that I can't call Cthulu badly designed because you happen to like it.)

And characters are awful? "STOP your snooping around outsider". And what about Hoover? And Jack himself? The Deep Ones are awesome too.

The characters in the first areas of the game are fine. They're pretty badly implement seeing as they'll still yell "TELL THE OUTSIDER NOTHING" to each-other when you're standing up to their face, but I liked the atmosphere they tried to build.

Hoover in particular was a fucking awful, flat character. And after the Marsh refinery he just disappears! At least they tried to explain Jack's motivation occasionally.

[Jaedar]

And on that note can you recommend me some must-have pre-2005 PC classics? Anything that GOG.com is missing? FPS or RPG preffered.

Gog's collection is pretty complete these days as far as I know. System shock 2 is still missing, but that will likely never change.

[Cybernetic pig]

As for difficulty I was playing on Private Detective, which is the highest I could play without (I'm assuming) beating the game to unlock more. Which, for the record, I also think is stupid. Out of the 4 options it's the 2nd, so it's on the bottom end of a 'medium' difficulty

Agreed, that is odd.

Basically, they found a way to make jumping puzzles even more irritating.

I love Jumping puzzles. They are harder on PC though. Whilst mouse is more precise than the right analog stick, WASD is less precise than the left stick.

(As an aside, I like how you see it ok to call quests you don't like 'badly designed', but you're absolutely steadfast that I can't call Cthulu badly designed because you happen to like it.)

You can call Cthulhu badly designed, I was talking about the sanity system which I was saying you cannot.... But I was wrong to do so, believe what you will.

Gog's collection is pretty complete these days as far as I know. System shock 2 is still missing, but that will likely never change.

What's your top 5?

[Cybernetic pig]

The characters in the first areas of the game are fine. They're pretty badly implement seeing as they'll still yell "TELL THE OUTSIDER NOTHING" to each-other when you're standing up to their face, but I liked the atmosphere they tried to build.

Hoover in particular was a fucking awful, flat character. And after the Marsh refinery he just disappears! At least they tried to explain Jack's motivation occasionally.

There are some storytelling mishaps yes, but I still like the characters and story overall.

You cannot deny that the atmosphere is dark, mysterious and daunting throughout though?

[YeomanTheCastle]

Out of curiosity, are you a fan of Jurassic Park: Trespasser, Cybernetic Pig?

Had to look that up. Looks pretty cool.

You should try it. I think you'd enjoy it.

[Cybernetic pig]

I may just do that, thanks.

[Hassat Hunter]

Gog's collection is pretty complete these days as far as I know. System shock 2 is still missing, but that will likely never change.

*cough* NOLF *cough*

[Cybernetic pig]

*cough* VTMB *cough*

[bobby 55]

A wet and windy Monday morning here, and it's a public holiday. Mmm, if only there was some form of entertainment suited to the indoors.

Borderlands 2 has some timed side missions, so far I've gotten one out of four parts done before the time has expired. They are vehicle specific and it's a matter of finding the optimal route. I really can't be bothered frankly since the time allowed is so short.

[gamer0004]

Third Age Total War.

It's a complicated relationship. It took me almost a full day to get it working and now it's crashing on me in a very important battle. Haven't been able to resolve the issue so far.
Fortunately, it's probably a local issue, and I'll be going to my room/apartment in Utrecht tomorrow so I can try it on my PC there (I have 2. And a laptop).
Fingers crossed it will work there. Otherwise it's probably a bug and I'm absolutely fucked.