What are you playing?

[Jonas]

Is 3 hours even enough to make it through the commercial area? You must've stopped somewhere before fighting the plastic surgeon? Later levels take you through the wharves where actual value is produced, the greenhouse where they grow food, an entertainment district with a theatre and clubs, an apartment area where people actually live, and a power plant. You kinda start to see how it all comes together.

I think the main problem is that Rapture is supposed to be a very structured and artificial place - in real life, cities are constructed very gradually and generally not following a detailed plan, so they end up with industry, residence, and commerce intermingled. If you were to build a whole city in one go, it's fair to assume you'd put the industry in one area, the residence in another area, and commerce somewhere else (though preferably close to the residence area, heh). That's how it is in BioShock. Since you don't really move freely between these areas, you don't experience it as one whole city, but rather one area at a time, and you don't really get a sense of how it all works together.

[bobby 55]

So how long would it be to complete the game? Sounds like it may be 15 to 20 hours, and for $20 that's bang for your buck.

[gamer0004]

Is 3 hours even enough to make it through the commercial area? You must've stopped somewhere before fighting the plastic surgeon? Later levels take you through the wharves where actual value is produced, the greenhouse where they grow food, an entertainment district with a theatre and clubs, an apartment area where people actually live, and a power plant. You kinda start to see how it all comes together.

I think the main problem is that Rapture is supposed to be a very structured and artificial place - in real life, cities are constructed very gradually and generally not following a detailed plan, so they end up with industry, residence, and commerce intermingled. If you were to build a whole city in one go, it's fair to assume you'd put the industry in one area, the residence in another area, and commerce somewhere else (though preferably close to the residence area, heh). That's how it is in BioShock. Since you don't really move freely between these areas, you don't experience it as one whole city, but rather one area at a time, and you don't really get a sense of how it all works together.

The city would be really structured, and therefore it shouldn't be very linear. Cities that have evolved from a small town into a city where 200,000 people live often have huge infrastructural problems. Take Nijmegen, a small city I live quite close to. There are 3 main roads, and they all meet at one square. The results are endless traffic jams.
Now, compare New York. A rather artificial city. Most roads are straight and parallel.
Rapture has only ONE way to get to another area. That's even worse than 'natural' cities.

[Jonas]

So how long would it be to complete the game? Sounds like it may be 15 to 20 hours, and for $20 that's bang for your buck.

Sounds about right. Like Deus Ex, it varies substantially depending on how thoroughly you explore.

The city would be really structured, and therefore it shouldn't be very linear. Cities that have evolved from a small town into a city where 200,000 people live often have huge infrastructural problems. Take Nijmegen, a small city I live quite close to. There are 3 main roads, and they all meet at one square. The results are endless traffic jams.
Now, compare New York. A rather artificial city. Most roads are straight and parallel.
Rapture has only ONE way to get to another area. That's even worse than 'natural' cities.

A valid point, though it could be argued that Ryan has a vested interest in designing transportation chokepoints to give him more power over the city. Indeed he does shut down the bathysphere network when the riots break out before the start of the game. It's also worth noting that comparing Rapture directly to real cities is problematic, since most - if not all - real cities are not built on the bottom of the ocean.

[Jonas]

Oh, one more thing actually. How many ways does New York City have to get around? Roads and a metro, right? So that's two, they're just used to connect quite a lot of locations. Look at Rapture, then: it has the bathyspheres and it has "skywalks" (waterwalks?) between buildings. Every bathysphere station connects you to every other bathysphere station, so it's quite comparable to NYC's metro. The only thing Rapture is missing is walkways connecting the major areas, but as I mentioned, Ryan might have ulterior motives with that design: the bathyspheres are easier to shut down than walkways would be.

[bobby 55]

So how long would it be to complete the game? Sounds like it may be 15 to 20 hours, and for $20 that's bang for your buck.

Sounds about right. Like Deus Ex, it varies substantially depending on how thoroughly you explore.

Thanks, I don't know how immersive the game will play, but by the debate it (Rapture) will be a cool place to visit

[Jonas]

BioShock is structured a lot like Deus Ex: large, fairly open levels with multiple objectives that can usually be done in the order you choose, connected in a linear sequence. Unlike in Deus Ex, you can travel back to previous levels in BioShock at any time, but there's not really any reason to do so, unless you want to see if you missed anything your first time through.

[bobby 55]

OMG! I better make that 30 plus then.

[Jaedar]

BioShock is structured a lot like Deus Ex: large, fairly open levels with multiple objectives that can usually be done in the order you choose, connected in a linear sequence. Unlike in Deus Ex, you can travel back to previous levels in BioShock at any time, but there's not really any reason to do so, unless you want to see if you missed anything your first time through.

They are not nearly as open as the Deus Ex ones, at least not during the first 2/3 of the game. Bioshock is an immersive game though, and I rather like the ghosts. I mean I can totally see the logic in why the city is created as it is. Plus the splicers fit perfectly in the game, and so do their vocal remarks.

Don't make me comment on the gameplay though, 'cus then I will have to get all negative and shit.

[bobby 55]

Oh? A console to PC game?

[Jaedar]

Oh? A console to PC game?

No, just not very good gameplay. I mean if it had had the gameplay of System shock 2 and the story/atmosphere of itself, it would sit comfortly on my top 10 games evar list. Unfortunately, it has a very shallow RPG system and don't expect to be challanged once you've found the heavy weapons.

[Jonas]

I found it to be a perfectly satisfying tactile FPS with a good sprinkling of RPG mechanics.

I think BioShock's levels compare favourably with DX's interior maps. BioShock just doesn't have any exteriors, but I hear BioShock 2 is going to change that. We'll see.

[bobby 55]

Ahhhh, thanks Jaedar. I've played a few games where the extra fire power makes it less challenging. However my interest in the game after tonights' divulgences has only increased.

Thanks Jonas, it sounds pretty damned good to me now.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, System Shock2 was pretty awesome.

And yeah; guess I have to do a runthrough of myself now after this discussion. Already got the game anyways...

[Andy.G]

Well, System Shock2 was pretty awesome.

It certainly was, thus after watching many episodes of the "pacifists approach" to surviving on the Von Braun I think I'II give it a shot with my measly shotgun.

That is after I finally clock STALKER...