What are you playing?

[DDL]

The loot system in Two Worlds 2 (which is pretty bad game, btw) is one of those crafting-integrated systems, so (if you have the crafting skills) you can upgrade your shit, but by using materials that can only be obtained by breaking down other shit. Suddenly getting fifteen identical shitty swords from a mass of skeletons is not "le sigh", it's "woo! 15 fucking steel, bitches! *upgrades leg armour*"

The rest of the game (apart from the spell system) is pretty terrible. But still.

[AEmer]

So the point is, as long as the loot gets you closer to a goal you have in some visceral fashion, it's all good, right?

Oh, and the binding of Isaac also has epic loot

[Jaedar]

Oh, and the binding of Isaac also has epic loot

you know, when you said games before, I naturally just thought of RPGs (well, not naturally perhaps but it's what happened). But yeah, looting in binding of isaac is also fun.

I think the problem is that at one point in skyrim and amalur and so on looting becomes more of a chore what with the inventory management rather than something that makes your character more powerful. It doesn't feel like you found something cool, it feels like you found more work. You can have too much of a good thing and so on.

[DDL]

That's always been a problem. Particularly with games like skyrim, that are just rammed with quests, even if they restricted the amount of epic lootz to be found out in the wild, they have to give you something as quest rewards, and the alternative ("moar cash") has essentially exactly the same issue.

But it does end up with terrible scenarios like
"you saved my son! Oh thank you, stranger. Here, take this ring: it belonged to my grandfather and -other than my son- is the most precious thing I own"

"Huh, k. Hrm..well I could rip the gem out of it coz that's +2 str, I guess. The rest is basically trashloot tho. Cheers anyway."

It's tricky to make a genuinely sensible realistic-seeming economy in these sort of games*, and those that try generally end up irritating players more than anything else.

"What do you MEAN you don't want to buy anymore swords???? I have fucking HUNDREDS of the things."


*not least because 'single dude murders hundreds of foes, steals everything from their corpses' is an inherently silly scenario, realism-wise

[bobby 55]

Would it be possible to impliment an option where you only pick up equipment that's better than what you have, (automatically to save scrolling through your inventory), and the equipment you have gets dropped from your inventory? It wouldn't solve the loot problem but it could save you carrying extra crap around. Although some people might want to keep it to sell, if it was an option it'd be one I would take.

[Jaedar]

Would it be possible to impliment an option where you only pick up equipment that's better than what you have

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Cause equipment is rarely so easy to compare directly. Do you want the sword with fast attack speed, 10 damage +2 fire or the sword with the medium attack speed, 13 damage +4 frost?

Keep in mind that the second sword also weighs more but has slightly larger reach.

You could of course make a system where equipment is rated(DA2 did it for one) but making it work would be really hard.

And the problem with more lootz/cash isn't as problematic if there's stuff to spend it on. Repairs are made for this: to be a cash sink so the player's income doesn't spiral too quickly. But they are rarely enough.

[bobby 55]

Cause equipment is rarely so easy to compare directly. Do you want the sword with fast attack speed, 10 damage +2 fire or the sword with the medium attack speed, 13 damage +4 frost?

Keep in mind that the second sword also weighs more but has slightly larger reach.

And the problem with more lootz/cash isn't as problematic if there's stuff to spend it on. Repairs are made for this: to be a cash sink so the player's income doesn't spiral too quickly. But they are rarely enough.

Yeah, good points. Cheers.

[Jonas]

Let me ask you guys something. It's hypothetical, but it's not... entirely hypothetical, if you get my drift.

What would you think about a system where any equipment you loot is essentially given a score which is added to your "Equipment" score when you acquire it. Say that you have a party of 6 adventurers, and your starting equipment score is 10. You get to assign those 10 points to your adventurers (for example 4 adventurers get 2 points each and the last 2 adventurers get 1 point). This score will be added to their combat statistics as a bonus of a sort. If you defeat a group of enemies, you may loot 2 points worth of equipment that you can use to bring the last two guys in your party up to speed, or you can dump both points in a guy you want to use as a frontline fighter of a sort.

Does that seem compelling to you? Making loot essentially a resource? Especially powerful items could still exist, you could still get a magical sword that you assign to one character, which gives him a +3 bonus or even gives him a special ability like fire damage. Would it still take the fun out of getting shiny new shit?

[Hassat Hunter]

It could work, but I wouldn't see it included in "deep" RPG's.

As also been treaded upon, I think lots of loot is more worrysome depending on how inventory UI is handled rather than the quantity. I really didn't mind in the KOTOR's where you're showered with loot, it's pretty easy to sell, upgrade, compare, equip.
It's absolutely atrocious in Kingdom of Amalur though due to it's horrific interface making each item, as stated, a whole damn lot of work.
I know it also tires me a bit in Borderlands, since someone apparently figured they should make the "compare" function worse than regular interface comparison by locking you into one item to the left (so you have to keep exiting it to properly use it. What the hell?)

[bobby 55]

@Jonas: That's interesting, and if you still could find something unique/awesome every now and then, that'd keep me (happily) searching for loot.

[Jonas]

Yeah 's why I ordered Amalur for Xbox - figured I ought to get it for the platform the interface was designed to work on.

Thanks for your replies

[AEmer]

@ Bobby

In many games I think you _could_ make an auto-switcher option...and you know, in many games? I'd want just that. It's so common that you need to put up with crap gameplay that, if the design is faulty, I'd prefer a suboptimal item manager that chose for me.

@ Jonas

I don't think it works, and here's why: Gadgets are cool because of what they are, not because they boost your chances in combat by a couple of percent.
You can call them what you want...gadgets, widgets, tools, weapons, equipment...they have a lot of names, but the one thing all of these have in common is that they're build to enable people to do things. Humans can't shoot, but guns can shoot, therefore humans with guns can shoot.

Within narratives it's a cheap way of generating creativety, because gadgets all have limited but specific uses. The gun enables a very specific set of actions; these can be imagined and toyed with. It's associated with these actions, and therefore it directs the imagination in directions it would not otherwise have gone.

As a stat that encourages certain things, perhaps even as something with strategic weight, your concept is ok - but the crucial thing isn't the strategic value, it's what it makes people think about.

If you find a stock of las guns in dune, and you equip your fremen with them, that instantly gives you ideas about what that means. It's presents you with an interesting problem, one that makes you ponder and think along lines that you find enjoyable to speculate about. On that note, I just don't think making equipment a stat is good enough: It's not actually serving the purpose items typically serve within games.

[Jaedar]

Jonas: I think it could work, but it wouldn't work in the same way as loot. As stated, it would be more of a strategic resource than a reward. Could work in a game where you merely manage adventurer's and if it were a smaller part of the game(lack of depth is excusable by breadth as deus ex clearly shows).

[EER]

Jonas: Sounds like loot would be xp?

[Jonas]

Pretty much, that's a good way to look at it.

Again, thanks for your input. Food for thought