Whats wrong with the new houseplants???

hayaku · Post by **hayaku** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 2:09 am

Ok so far love the HDTP but what is wrong with the houseplans? they all look dead, dry, shriveled and discolored. Really detracts from the game, makes the whole thing feel so depressing. Here is an example ive made with some screenshots...

Now, apart from the perfectly rounded, higher polygon terracotta pots, id say the HDTP ones are a major step backwards. Less color, smaller, deader... the fern leaves even look less impressive, thinner, skinnier, less leafy and all in all pretty bad. Just take a look...

Anybody else agree with me? What were you guys even thinking when you took that step.

Look forward to hearing what you guys have to say.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:26 am

I'm going to argue against what he just said.

The texture fully matches the Cyberpunk style, it gives off a dystopia vibe. If anything the original looks worse. Being depressed is a good thing.. If you aren't depressed at Dystopia then clearly its not working.

I don't see a point in changing it. I like how it looks though I would argue the leaves could be a bit more fluid as they seem to be standing a bit too straight.

CitizenZero · Post by **CitizenZero** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 4:48 am

yeah...there is little to no difference there. Its kinda hard to do anything really !GREAT! with the Deus Ex SDK. I think HDTP did the best they could do with that and it really doesn't make much of a difference anyway if they looked depressing, Deus Ex in general is depressing. The world is going to shit and your stuck in it. Start crying or die...

Post by **Jonas** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:50 am

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote:If anything the original looks worse. Being depressed is a good thing..

I was under the impression we'd all agreed not to change the DX style more than absolutely necessary - not to judge the game's visual style in the light of what we think it should look like, but rather to stick to what it actually was.

CitizenZero wrote:Its kinda hard to do anything really !GREAT! with the Deus Ex SDK.

The difficulty of working with the SDK has very little to do with this. This plant was made in a modelling program such as 3D Studio Max and then imported, you could make it look however you want, so long as it don't rely on alpha channels (which would admittedly have been a major advantage in general and especially in this case). There are two reasons the plant does not resemble its original:

1) Its leaf polygons were made too vertical, too close together.
2) Its leaf texture is too yellow.

I don't know why this was done - I'm guessing because whoever did the model wasn't looking closely enough at the original plant, and because whoever did the texture couldn't find a greener photo to use.

It's been annoying me for some time - the other plants in HDTP are really well done and look very close to the originals, but this plant - which used to be one of the most pleasing-looking plants in DX - has become pretty depressing and unpleasant to look at. I don't care what you think cyberpunk entails, any plants in eg. Maggie Chow's apartment should look in top notch condition and green as hell.

I didn't want to say anything because I know HDTP haven't many resources to spare, but now that it's brought up by somebody else, I am forced to agree - I wish the plant leaves were recreated. The polygons should be spread out more, possibly enlarged a bit, and the textures should be tweaked to look greener - I'm sure this could be done in Photoshop.

But ultimately it depends on whether there's resources for it

[EDIT] Oh and it would help if the pot wasn't twice as tall as the original.

EER · Post by **EER** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:55 am

I totally agree with Jonas on this one. The plant could use more green, instead of white/yellow.

If I remember correctly, the plant originally looked awesome after recreating it, without the whole DX universe around it. However, after placing it in the whole DX environment it seems to be out of place.

Phasmatis · Post by **Phasmatis** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:32 am

I redid this plant a while ago, I believe that was after the HDTP release though so it wasn't included.

Post by **Jonas** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:08 am

Pics!

Phasmatis · Post by **Phasmatis** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:14 am

I would have to import it to show some screens and I can't be arsed heh. I used the oringal leaves and made the pot smaller, as well as fanned out the stems more so it looks better.

EER · Post by **EER** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:33 am

We'll see it later then

Mr.Caravaggio · Post by **Mr.Caravaggio** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:00 pm

Quick debate there, people are hungry for threads. :p

I'll look forward to the new plant too. I'm not sure how I feel about leaf colors but it would be nice to be wider. Many spaces in the game are quite empty and could stand to be filled as much as possible. And while you could chalk it up to the fashion or style of the culture it also still seems like a game from 99.

Is the indention actual polygons? If it is could it stand to have another loop or two? There are places on the bottom corners where it's turning black because of the shading.

I like the subtle bump in the newer texture though, that's nice.

hayaku · Post by **hayaku** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:49 am

Thanks for the replies, and I fully back everything that Jonas has just said...

I mean I know DX is supposed to be 'somewhat depressing' but i couldn't have said it better myself, having an apartment full of seemingly dead, dried up plants hardly inspires.

I think the plants were used very sparingly in DX for the very purpose, and when they were used it was to offset the dull feel of the game in just the right moments.

I mean what next, remove the angel fish from the pond in the Red Arrow HQ? turn the aquarium in Everett's mansion into a grey concrete slab? I have an idea, lets just remove the whole of Hong Kong, god knows how much color changes that would take to suck the life out of it and thus make it compatible with cyberpunk aesthetics. To me DX is close to perfect as it is, if you are going to tinker with something, for gods sake don't make it the visual style. Upgrading the quality of the textures is one thing, using editorial power to reinvent them is another.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:06 am

The plant can easily be fixed with a colorize this debate was pointless anyway as phas has apparently already fixed it.

That comment about editorial power is crap, you're acting like the Artist is the bad guy when he's the only one thats actually had the guts to do the work. I'd like to see you texture and then you can tell me how enjoyable it is to do someone else's work day after day after day, you should realize that yeah ok we make mistakes but they are easily fixed with a new coat of paint. A lot of the work I've done already for NV did look different, but I eventually colorized the stuff and it looks exactly as the original. So its not hard to fix and not worth the fuss really. You are over reacting. And seeing as you are new, Yes I was a texture artist for HDTP.

Dead-eye · Post by **Dead-eye** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:15 am

OMG IT"S A FUCKING PLANT WHO CARES...

Oh sorry did I wright that out load, my bad. Hmmm... yes I totally agree that the texture is a bit off It looks to much like Paul Denton and not like JC Denton at all. It need's to look more like JC Denton, or I'm not buying the game.

Phasmatis · Post by **Phasmatis** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:58 am

I used the original Deus Ex leaves texture for the newest rendition, it was good enough and saved me some work. Now it's as green as it was originally.

Mr_Cyberpunk · Post by **Mr_Cyberpunk** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:15 am

Thanks for clearing that up phas.