MQDuck loves you and isn't trying to make any enemies

[mqduck]

So, HDTP things are continuing to go forward at an unknown, but surely slow, rate. Being a passive consumer, I won't make any complaints.

But might I just note that...

Releasing all textures and other work that has so far been done, to the general public, would *not harm or in any other way set back* anything.

I'm just sayin'... If every member of the HDTP community, such as it exists, died tomorrow, I'd like to know that I'd have a (rather lazy) snowball's chance in hell of reviving it.

[kdawg88]

It might be for the better, but it depends on how much they value their work. At the end of the day, time is relative; we waited for TNM and we can wait for these too.

[mqduck]

It might be for the better, but it depends on how much they value their work.

I very much disagree that it is (or, at least, should be) a matter of how much they value their work. Maybe I'm just a communist*, but I think a sense of ownership of one's creative work is downright contrary to the artistic spirit. Turning creative work into a piece of property, to the degree in which its done, robs it of its inherent value to that same degree, replacing it instead with value as a commodity, in spirit if not in fact.

More to the point, and to reiterate the one I made in my original comment, posting the work that's been done *takes away from nothing* but gives a potential something, to some degree or another, to the community at large.

At the end of the day, time is relative;

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'll accept that it probably makes sense, at least if you squint at it from a distance.

we waited for TNM and we can wait for these too.

Oh definitely, we can wait for it. We've been doing so for a long time, and we can continue to wait even longer. And when it is released, I'll praise them for it no less because of how long it took. My point is just (apologies for partially here reiterating myself yet again):

1) Releasing what all now exists has no negative side.
2) Releasing what all now exists has some potential positive sides:
a) It ensures that the work will live on even if those limited few, as of now, who have access to it are in some way forced to abandon it due to life or death. Far fetched, sure, but it worries me in my more paranoid moments. In those moments, I'm also afraid of the Illuminati, Majestic 12, and the military super-power that is the United Nations, so make of it what you will.
b) Someone may actually do the hard work for whoever the job falls upon now. Following the mod community of various games over the years, I've become convinced that dedicated enthusiasts are capable of figuring out how fucking anything works, and how to exploit it, no matter how obscured.

The only potential problem I can think of is the actual logistics of making what is done available. My server bandwidth is very limited (free with my account from my ISP) before I start getting charged for it, but I'd be willing to host the data if no option is deemed... an option.

*Actually, I am. I'm also a fan of Eric S. Raymond's cathedral vs. bazaar approach, even though I rather despise the man himself.

[EL_OT]

Turning creative work into a piece of property, to the degree in which its done, robs it of its inherent value to that same degree, replacing it instead with value as a commodity, in spirit if not in fact.

Quite brilliant, I love it. Is that your writing, or are you quoting some communist guru?

[Hashi]

since we all know nothing of communism, lets all laugh at it. lolololooollloooll communism olololol

[kdawg88]

trolololololololol hohohohohooooooo...oh wait, how ironic.

[Hashi]

hey i know something of ho's...

[EL_OT]

You misread my intentions - I really do like the communist/ anarchist idea behind that.

... on the other hand, I come from a post-communist country, so I know that these ideas seem great, as long as they do not leave the paper they have been written upon .

[chris the cynic]

We can spend as long as we want debating the benefits of the understanding of creative ownership held by the the Babylonians and Sumerians as it compares to our own. We can ask the question of whether modern life would have even been possible if mqduck's positively ancient ideas had still been in force when the industrial revolution began*. Or, we could go about it the other way, and ask if the Epic of Gilgamesh would have been created if our modern ideas had been in force at the time**. We can debate the relative values of The Epic of Gilgamesh and electronics.

We can have the very kind of broad soaring insanely big picture exchange of ideas that started in the third post.

But if anyone here has any illusions that suggesting that everything we've built our world on is a lie and we were all much better thinking the way we did before the industrial revolution will actually change the positions of those working on HDTP, I think they are extremely mistaken.

You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world

-

*Those who have looked into it tend to say no, the techonoloy that kicked off the industrial revolution was available as much as 1500 years beforehand and used in, of all things, toys. It is generally believed that it was the concept of ownership of ideas that caused the industrial revolution and thus led to the computers we all use and the internet through which you read these words.

** The Epic of Gilgamesh was created with one founding principle: plagiarism. Of course they didn't call it that at the time, the concept didn't exist as we know it, it was simply how you did things. As such, you can be almost as sure that modern ideas would have prevented the Epic of Gilgamesh from being created, had they been in force at the time, as you can be sure that mqduck's Sumerian mindset would have prevented the modern world from being created, had it been in force at the time. You probably can't be quite as sure, fan fic still exists after all, but I'm going to stick with almost.

[EL_OT]

I know what is happening! At least, I think I do.

The mod does not exist, it never has. It is all just a social experiment. The evil scientist are messing with our minds to see how much genuine creativity can be generated out of waiting too long and sheer frustration.

And with topics such as this one and many other fine rants around here, I hope they never reveal the truth to the public. It would be too great a loss.

In 10 years from now, I will probably still visit this forum once a week or so, to check if any progress is made. If the final border of human patience has finally been reached.

[zane]

@EL_OT I agree, maybe its too see if we will just wait and wait. Before doing it ourselves.

If we think its been done and only 5-10% left to be done at what point do we give up on it happening and if we will do it ourselves?

There have been posts about attempting to help out with the remaining work. But all we get told is that its "too hard and only one person can do it". Which doesn't really mean much. How could something be so impossible, that only one person can accomplish this feat? Surely if its taking this long, it would be easier to explain what needs to be done and find more of these talented people? Rather then just pushing people away. A search should be made and collect the brightest minds of the cosmos.

But of cause with out any real MOD they must continue to push people away and make sure that no one learns the truth of the matter. And that is, the experiment.

[mqduck]

Sorry for coming back to this thread so late...

Quite brilliant, I love it. Is that your writing, or are you quoting some communist guru?

I wrote it, though I probably could have found some quote by Marx or Proudhon or many other people saying the same basic thing. I'm no good at quoting chapter and verse.

We can ask the question of whether modern life would have even been possible if mqduck's positively ancient ideas had still been in force when the industrial revolution began [...] It is generally believed that it was the concept of ownership of ideas that caused the industrial revolution and thus led to the computers we all use and the internet through which you read these words.

Generally believed indeed (though a bit overstated on your part), Marx included.
EDIT: I just reread the quote I responded to and realized I missed something. "Concept of the ownership OF IDEAS"? I think not. Chris the Cynic needs to check his "generally believed facts" list.

We can have the very kind of broad soaring insanely big picture exchange of ideas that started in the third post.

I wasn't trying to start a philosophical discussion, let alone a political one, but "it depends on how much they value their work" was a philosophical statement and I replied to it. It's sad when capitalist values enter even not-for-profit spheres of activity.

[Jonas]

But of cause with out any real MOD they must continue to push people away and make sure that no one learns the truth of the matter. And that is, the experiment.

I look forward to your next post, in which you will escalate to the natural progression of your theory by speculating that HDTP is actually managed by our ancient reptilian overlords as a part of their epic secret scheme to mind control the human population of Earth. That'll be pretty great.

[nerdenstein]

your theory by speculating that HDTP is actually managed by our ancient reptilian overlords as a part of their epic secret scheme to mind control the human population of Earth. That'll be pretty great.

I used to think the same of TNM.

[bobby 55]

I look forward to your next post, in which you will escalate to the natural progression of your theory by speculating that HDTP is actually managed by our ancient reptilian overlords as a part of their epic secret scheme to mind control the human population of Earth.

Sssssspoilersssss! *Slithers away*