OK. What's the real deal?

[justanotherfan]

Feedback acknowledged.

[Jonas]

Okay I'll try to make this absolutely clear, since your powers of inference or your willingness to do the research yourself are apparently highly unimpressive (you ask rudely, I answer rudely - fair's fair).

How could this work be so complicated that only one man can do it?

So, as you've already been informed, it's mostly the first-person weapon animations that need doing, plus a lot of content already produced needs to be assembled and implemented. The former is not so complicated that only one man can do it, which is why as far as we've been informed more than one person is working on it, albeit it seems to be going slowly. The latter is extremely complicated and takes somebody who knows Deus Ex and Deus Ex modding really well. More than one such person exists, but only one of them has agreed to do the work. I happen to be another such person, to an extent, and I can't be assed to help out because I have my own projects to look after and because I've already finished a years-long non-profit project that had to endure shit-flinging such as yours at every step of the way until it was released (and then for a while after, inexplicably).

What could be so in-depth that the multitude of skilled computer literate people out there who love Deus Ex can't even be involved?

Animation. This happens to be one of the most sought-after skills in the games industry because not only does it require a very deep knowledge of the technical aspects of animation, such as how to use the software in the first place, but it also requires a lot of knowledge about movement and a lot of artistic sensibility on top of all that. This is why there are four-year educations in animation. I invite you to give it a shot if you believe it's a piece of cake to become a good animator. Upload your work to some CG forums when you're done and see what they think.

Furthermore, animation for Deus Ex happens to be an old and particularly time-consuming type of animation, namely frame by frame vertex animation because Deus Ex doesn't support skeletons. That also means you can't reuse animations you've already made for similar models, you have to do everything over from scratch. So not only is it technically and artistically demanding work, it's also the most tedious possible type of that work. All right? Moving on then.

How could this last thing be so slow as to take years?

Because, as has been restated time and time again, people have lives. People have their education to worry about, or they have jobs. They have families. They have friends. HDTP is not a full-time job, and when you're just squeezing in an hour here and there where you can find it, things like this tends to take a long time. Could they work faster if they really wanted? Who's to say? They probably could, maybe they're choosing to watch movies, read books, or play videogames at times when they could be working on HDTP instead, but that's the thing about the real world: if you don't pay people, you can't really demand anything from them. You can try to guilt-trip them if they've promised you something directly, but nobody on the HDTP team has promised you anything, so you are in no position to guilt anyone, no matter how hard you try. Free will - it is an actual thing, and you may as well just learn to live with it.

[gamer0004]

Why don't you just ban this ass?

[Salk]

I happen to be another such person, to an extent, and I can't be assed to help out because I have my own projects to look after and because I've already finished a years-long non-profit project that had to endure shit-flinging such as yours at every step of the way until it was released (and then for a while after, inexplicably).

I have only one word for you...

...

TRAITOR!

[Jonas]

Why don't you just ban this ass?

Because I'm a big fan of freedom of speech. As long as no personal insults or name-calling are employed, this guy can spend as much time as he want letting out his crap. We don't ban people for holding opinions that differ from our own, no matter how ignorant they seem (as long as they're not misogynistic, homophobic, or racist). In fact this morning I was really bored in the university reading room, and I had a chance to kill some time by typing up the reply above. It was nice, fun almost.

[gamer0004]

Technically speaking, shouldn't you ban me for calling him an ass? ^^

Anyway, yay freedom of speech, it's very noble though it sucks for everyone involved in HDTP as well as (the rest of the) non-trolls.

Though I guess this is the dilemma every policy maker faces. For instance: apply an internet filter to keep out paedophiles or respect the freedom of the internet and take down individual websites? The latter is less effective, but also results in more freedom and is less likely to be abused (no 1984 for me, thank you).

[Jaedar]

Anyway, yay freedom of speech

Yeah, way to go freedom of speech except for these things I really don't like people saying.

[gamer0004]

Yeah, way to go freedom of speech except for these things I really don't like people saying.

I acknowledge this paradox. I want him to shut up, but if he isn't for freedom of speech that's actually better.

[riskmaker]

Okay I'll try to make this absolutely clear, since your powers of inference or your willingness to do the research yourself are apparently highly unimpressive (you ask rudely, I answer rudely - fair's fair).

That was not a rude way to ask. It was a direct way to ask three specific questions. However, I appreciate the answers - regardless. And to comment on the "Why not ban this guy" Hur Hur of the peanut gallery...You guys USED to be a little more ban-happy. Probably only mellowed out because you get no activity around here...

So, as you've already been informed, it's mostly the first-person weapon animations that need doing, plus a lot of content already produced needs to be assembled and implemented. The former is not so complicated that only one man can do it, which is why as far as we've been informed more than one person is working on it, albeit it seems to be going slowly. The latter is extremely complicated and takes somebody who knows Deus Ex and Deus Ex modding really well. More than one such person exists, but only one of them has agreed to do the work. I happen to be another such person, to an extent, and I can't be assed to help out because I have my own projects to look after and because I've already finished a years-long non-profit project that had to endure shit-flinging such as yours at every step of the way until it was released (and then for a while after, inexplicably).

I have heard a lot of talk about animation. I haven't worked on anything DX related. From what was gathered on these forums it is implied one person is doing the animation work. We keep saying Deus Ex and Deus Ex modding, but there exists no informative documentation that would allow people to get familiar with the particulars of what is left or needed to do - so people who are competent and able, could lend a hand. It seems like an arrogant "We want to finish it at this snails pace!" That disregards everyone who is looking forward and thus pisses people off and creates trolls, on and on and on. What skills are required? Animating skills? In what software? Under what conditions? Not everyone is a Deus Ex modder, you can't take these ideas for granted. But if you want me to believe it takes some sort of extraordinary individual to plot out vertex points frame by frame...

Animation. This happens to be one of the most sought-after skills in the games industry because not only does it require a very deep knowledge of the technical aspects of animation, such as how to use the software in the first place, but it also requires a lot of knowledge about movement and a lot of artistic sensibility on top of all that. This is why there are four-year educations in animation. I invite you to give it a shot if you believe it's a piece of cake to become a good animator. Upload your work to some CG forums when you're done and see what they think.

Furthermore, animation for Deus Ex happens to be an old and particularly time-consuming type of animation, namely frame by frame vertex animation because Deus Ex doesn't support skeletons. That also means you can't reuse animations you've already made for similar models, you have to do everything over from scratch. So not only is it technically and artistically demanding work, it's also the most tedious possible type of that work. All right? Moving on then.

I disagree that its as special and complicated as you think. I think lots of people have the potential to learn whats necessary. Some mod teams put together challenges for people who think they can handle mod business, to show them how difficult the project is -- and to accept people who are genuinely good at what they do. This has become kind of like a closed door system, I don't know if back in the first year this started there was such recruitment, but it has become blatantly clear that it did not work. This isn't an acceptable time scale, I'd bet almost any of the mod team members can realize no amount of rationalizing allows this mod to drag on for years.

Because, as has been restated time and time again, people have lives. People have their education to worry about, or they have jobs. They have families. They have friends. HDTP is not a full-time job, and when you're just squeezing in an hour here and there where you can find it, things like this tends to take a long time. Could they work faster if they really wanted? Who's to say? They probably could, maybe they're choosing to watch movies, read books, or play videogames at times when they could be working on HDTP instead, but that's the thing about the real world: if you don't pay people, you can't really demand anything from them. You can try to guilt-trip them if they've promised you something directly, but nobody on the HDTP team has promised you anything, so you are in no position to guilt anyone, no matter how hard you try. Free will - it is an actual thing, and you may as well just learn to live with it.

People DO have lives! But no one knows what really has to be done as in {NUMBERS, IDEAS} -- this is ON PURPOSE because the progress isn't just understandably slow, its ridiculously slow. People have done more complicated creations with spare time during these last few years. When did this mod get announced? How much passion is left? I am not trying to guilt trip people, give me a break. Just don't act like there is progress. That isn't progress. Its death. I am highly used to people doing what they do; if you don't step in and give them a slap in the face every once in a while you get stagnation like whats happening here. Which is probably why they don't read the forums - more ability to slack off. They don't owe anyone anything. We all know this, this is common knowledge. But the fact remains since they didn't finish it in a timely manner, they took up the mantle - and decided to wear it for years.

[VectorM]

Please, please, be more dramatic over a free mod that a bunch of guys are(were?) making in their spare time.

[riskmaker]

Please, please, be more dramatic over a free mod that a bunch of guys are(were?) making in their spare time.

I gave responses similar in length to his. Please, troll harder.

[VectorM]

Because it's the length, not the content of the post that counts. Obviously.

[riskmaker]

Because it's the length, not the content of the post that counts. Obviously.

You're trying to be antagonistic, you've lost the point however: I matched the dramatic mood quite well.

[VectorM]

Guy comes in. Is obviously butthurt over nothing. Gets called on it. Claims the others were butthurt.

Are we the Heroes of Newerth forums now?

[riskmaker]

Learn to read, fellow.