Off Topic Productions

Well, giving the perk system a shot (WIP): http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/23 ... 32-983.jpg

I think it's a good idea, even if it doesn't fit Deus Ex per se.
Case in point, the Fallout 3 perk system. Most of the perks gave you a slight bonus which is probably isn't worth mentioning, while the others (befitting the name perks) altered the game completely, mostly for the ridiculous and overpowered. Making giant ants' heads explode upon impact every time gets old, too.

But I'm interested seeing what you have in mind for the GMDX perks. Unrealistically, having characters comment about and react to your choice of upgrades is a very interesting idea, and fits Deus Ex perfectly.

Made in China wrote:I think it's a good idea, even if it doesn't fit Deus Ex per se.

It fits to the same degree as the skill system does. So very much in terms of gameplay depth, not so much in terms of simulation.

Case in point, the Fallout 3 perk system. Most of the perks gave you a slight bonus which is probably isn't worth mentioning, while the others (befitting the name perks) altered the game completely, mostly for the ridiculous and overpowered. Making giant ants' heads explode upon impact every time gets old, too.

FO3 should be disregarded. New Vegas is far superior

But I'm interested seeing what you have in mind for the GMDX perks. Unrealistically, having characters comment about and react to your choice of upgrades is a very interesting idea, and fits Deus Ex perfectly.

I've got it all conceptualized. Completing the implementation is another matter because fucking UI coding...but I can do it. Just takes dedication.
As for NPC dialogue reactions, it cannot be done without re-voicing characters entirely...so it isn't going to happen.

News update: http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/news/gmd ... -milestone

Cybernetic pig wrote:

Well, giving the perk system a shot (WIP):

Took a week (probably about 24 hrs in total, maybe more). Not bad.

All the perks: http://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/news/gmd ... s-revealed

Why does the first rifle perk boost pistols? I'm assuming misprint.

Well, you've proved I'm wrong. This is an amazing list with stackable perks. It seems, though, that Heavy Weapons and Stealth consistently got the best ones - but it balances itself out with the skill system.
Regarding the Rifles/Advanced, my suggestion is:

SELECTIVE FIRE - An agent can shoot in a 3 round burst mode. Recoil is reduced by 25%.

The idea behind it is having all rifles (incl. shotguns and sniper rifles) having a toggle for burst mode, which may waste more ammo, but generates a more focused firepower with accumulated recoil.

Nice suggestion. However in the previous update it was listed that fully-automatic weapon mods have been added to GMDX (an easy to miss/forget detail since it is one of many) and they can be applied to the assault shotgun and rifle of the rifles category, so they would make this perk redundant since all rifles except the sawed off can now be made full-auto.

Funny thing is ALL weapons were full-auto to begin with (hold down left mouse), GMDX removed that (except for actual automatic weapons such as the assault gun), and now brought it back with full-auto mods, although there is only two of these mods to be found in one playthrough.

As for the worth/balance of each, indeed some look more appealing than others but this is intentional, as the worth of each is relative to the skill it is tied to...as you said. One or two minor tweaks are perhaps needed but otherwise it is pretty balanced, with each perk being worth the costs, providing extra incentive to master a skill, and no truly worthless abilities/dump stats (unlike almost every RPG with complex systems ever). Everything should be worthwhile in relation to the primary playstyles.

Edit: another reason to not bother with three-burst fire is that weapon animations would need to be added (take the assault gun for example, which only has an anim for five successive shots). I'd need an animator...forever waiting. NPCs and weapons demand improved & additional anims.
I know shifter has a select fire mode but that was intended with vanilla models, HDTP's require the little details to be stressed over, and boy have they. v8.0 has considerably improved weaponry behaviour

Hmm, on the topic of rifle perk:

Rifles weapons are sniper, assault, and the two shotguns iirc.

Perhaps a perk like "steady hands: Lose 50% less accuracy from movement when using rifle type weapons"

Possibly, but then we'd probably need a pistol equivalent too. Currently my favorite suggestion is from someone on moddb: rubber bullets make enemies flinch more often, and more likely to drop their weapon...he didn't actually suggest that exactly, some personal modifications there, but it is going to take something significant to top that I think. Not that your suggestions haven't been good, but finding the perfect match for the perk is obviously somewhat specific.

Do rubber bullets mean having a non-lethal option for rifles, or is it a damage-for-stun trade off?
Because frankly, I wouldn't want rifles to have a non-lethal option. I just don't see it fitting the playstyle of non-lethal, unloading a sawed-off onto someone's face. But the stun is good - it might be especially helpful in the case of MiBs.

Jaedar wrote:Why does the first rifle perk boost pistols? I'm assuming misprint.

Yes. Fixed.

Made in China wrote:Do rubber bullets mean having a non-lethal option for rifles, or is it a damage-for-stun trade off?
Because frankly, I wouldn't want rifles to have a non-lethal option. I just don't see it fitting the playstyle of non-lethal, unloading a sawed-off onto someone's face. But the stun is good - it might be especially helpful in the case of MiBs.

Why not? Bean bags, rubber bullets and such are common tools of non-lethal law enforcement in developed nations. Yes it doesn't particularly fit the traditional silent non-lethal playstyle as we know it, but the bullet's relevance isn't really game changing at all: rubber ammo is rare, shotguns are noisy and therefore not desirable for this playstyle...it is just meant to be a non-lethal backup if cornered, and even then they won't always help as they are no match for unloading buckshot on the enemy. Just consider it a novelty tool like some of the other stuff in the game. It certainly has its uses but again I stress it isn't a game-changer, except in that they are pretty fun (they bounce off walls).

Cybernetic pig wrote:Why not? Bean bags, rubber bullets and such are common tools of non-lethal law enforcement in developed nations.

Actually, it's not non-lethal. In my country we've stopped using that term long ago to encourage proper use of those rounds.
Rubber bullets have the same effect and penetration of normal (5.56*45) bullets under 10 meters, penetration and all.
Bean bags cannot penetrate, but can only be applied to limbs in order to minimize internal damage - application to the head may result in a severe concussion and death.
In general, less than lethal ammo may only be applied to the limbs, specifically the legs, and only in medium range (in long range it is often inaccurate and ineffective) to produce a stun effect, or at least to hurt someone enough so they'll run away.

Anyway, what I'm offering is generally more useful. The ability to retain the gun's lethality while adding a stun effect - maybe toxic coating or something similar? That way you won't need to place new ammo in all the maps.

Cybernetic pig wrote:Possibly, but then we'd probably need a pistol equivalent too. Currently my favorite suggestion is from someone on moddb: rubber bullets make enemies flinch more often, and more likely to drop their weapon...he didn't actually suggest that exactly, some personal modifications there, but it is going to take something significant to top that I think. Not that your suggestions haven't been good, but finding the perfect match for the perk is obviously somewhat specific.

As long as it applies to most/all the guns. Not a fan if its something that only benefits some of them. Not sure what you mean, since rubber bullets are in the mod for shotgun iirc.

Also, I don't think pistol/rifles should have much overlap in terms of perks. Better to keep them separate. Maybe pistols can get quick draw(change to/from pistol faster, lose less accuracy for doing so. They are small arms after all) while rifles focus on something else.

Did you implement accuracy loss on changing weapons? I seem to recall something about it, but I'm not sure.

Jaedar wrote:Also, I don't think pistol/rifles should have much overlap in terms of perks. Better to keep them separate.

That is the intention.

Maybe pistols can get quick draw(change to/from pistol faster

Combat speed aug already does that for all weapons.

Did you implement accuracy loss on changing weapons? I seem to recall something about it, but I'm not sure.

No. I went for the 20% faster tightening of the crosshairs perk instead.

Made in China wrote: Actually, it's not non-lethal. In my country we've stopped using that term long ago to encourage proper use of those rounds.
Rubber bullets have the same effect and penetration of normal (5.56*45) bullets under 10 meters, penetration and all.
Bean bags cannot penetrate, but can only be applied to limbs in order to minimize internal damage - application to the head may result in a severe concussion and death.
In general, less than lethal ammo may only be applied to the limbs, specifically the legs, and only in medium range (in long range it is often inaccurate and ineffective) to produce a stun effect, or at least to hurt someone enough so they'll run away.

Anyway, what I'm offering is generally more useful. The ability to retain the gun's lethality while adding a stun effect - maybe toxic coating or something similar? That way you won't need to place new ammo in all the maps.

Perhaps I should make it lethal then. As for a stun effect, best bet is to just make the NPC play pain animation more frequently to that ammo type, at least without new NPC animations being added.
I really need an animator.